Ocean Grey is Ocean Grey is Ocean Grey

[Simon]

I'm about to embark on a 1/48 Tamiya Mossie B. Mk. IV in Medium Sea Grey/Ocean Grey/Dark Green camouflage scheme, and I have a quick question about the Ocean Grey - which one of the following (if any!) is nearest to the right colour?

I've got the following three: Humbrol 106 Ocean Grey, Xtracrylix XA1006 Ocean Grey and Tamiya XF-82 Ocean Grey. They all claim to be RAF Ocean Grey, and they're all quite different! I've done a quick tester, with each oversparyed onto Xtracrylix XA1006 Medium Sea Grey, and they look something like this (allowing for monitor differences, but it gives an idea):

To me it's a bit like Goldilocks and the three bowls of porridge - Humbrol doesn't look 'bluey' enough, Xtracrylix is too pale and doesn't contrast enough with the MSG, so that leaves Tamiya...is that one just right? Or is there another one altogether that's a better option?

Cheers

Simon

[Selwyn]

I'm about to embark on a 1/48 Tamiya Mossie B. Mk. IV in Medium Sea Grey/Ocean Grey/Dark Green camouflage scheme, and I have a quick question about the Ocean Grey - which one of the following (if any!) is nearest to the right colour?

I've got the following three: Humbrol 106 Ocean Grey, Xtracrylix XA1006 Ocean Grey and Tamiya XF-82 Ocean Grey. They all claim to be RAF Ocean Grey, and they're all quite different! I've done a quick tester, with each oversparyed onto Xtracrylix XA1006 Medium Sea Grey, and they look something like this (allowing for monitor differences, but it gives an idea):

To me it's a bit like Goldilocks and the three bowls of porridge - Humbrol doesn't look 'bluey' enough, Xtracrylix is too pale and doesn't contrast enough with the MSG, so that leaves Tamiya...is that one just right? Or is there another one altogether that's a better option?

Cheers

Simon

Simon

How do you know it does not look "bluey enough?"

Any one of these colours could be right or wrong, and unless you have something painted in wartime Ocean Grey to compare it to You are on a loser from the start.

I suggest you paint your model in the OG colour you feel is correct , who is going to argue with your choice anyway? Its called artistic licence.

Selwyn

[pte1643]

The Xtracrylics are supossed to be colour matched to BS381, so you "might" assume this to be the closest.

Saying this it would be interesting to see what the Tamiya OG looks like over Tamiya MSG2 (XF-83).

Edited July 1, 2011 by pte1643

[woody37]

Are Xtracolours also supposed to be colour matched ? If so, I've built two Lancs one with Xtracolour dark green, the other with Xtracrylics dark green and the Xtracrylics are much darker.

I've found myself adding white to the colours as they look too dark, which defeats the object of colour matching !

Not that I'll lose much sleep as the real things probably faded to produce a greater tonal variation anyway !

[John]

The Xtracrylics are supossed to be colour matched to BS381, so you "might" assume this to be the closest.

Saying this it would be interesting to see what the Tamiya OG looks like over Tamiya MSG2 (XF-83).

Ocean Grey has never been included in BS381.

John

[Giorgio N]

If it can help, I've never been really happy with Humbrol 106, is IMHO too dark and not really the right colour. I am however quite happy with Xtracrilics ocean grey and this is the one I use today. Never tried tamiya though.

[pte1643]

Ocean Grey has never been included in BS381.

Yeah, apologies for the confusion.

I have a list of BS numbers/colours and Ocean Grey is down the list, but doesn't actually have a BS number.

[Simon]

Thanks for all the replies folks, they're much appreciated.

I'd originally thought I'd use the Xtracrylix OG, but most photos of Mosquitoes in this scheme from the period show a marked contrast along the line where the under surface MSG and the upper surface OG meet. Like this one, for example:

(web image)

and this colour photo of a preserved example here:

(web image)

Personally speaking, I don't think that the Xtracrylix OG has enough contrast against their MSG, which is why I thought I'd try the Humbrol and Tamiya versions of OG to compare and, er, contrast! Or perhaps the Xtracrylix MSG is a bit too dark, and maybe I ought to try Tamiya's MSG too, as PTE1943 suggests...

Cheers

Simon

[Steven Eisenman]

and this colour photo of a preserved example here:

(web image)

Personally speaking, I don't think that the Xtracrylix OG has enough contrast against their MSG, which is why I thought I'd try the Humbrol and Tamiya versions of OG to compare and, er, contrast! Or perhaps the Xtracrylix MSG is a bit too dark, and maybe I ought to try Tamiya's MSG too, as PTE1943 suggests...

Cheers

Simon

That "preserved" looks more like "restored". What "model paint" did they use?

But then again all the variables that could affect color and its viewing come into play here

[Simon]

That "preserved" looks more like "restored". What "model paint" did they use?

But then again all the variables that could affect color and its viewing come into play here

A very good point. The old problem that interpreting colour photos, especially old, WW2 period colour photos is a complete minefield!

I guess the reply from Selwyn is very good - if it looks right, and you're happy with it, go for it!

Simon

[stever219]

Be careful here: the preserved/restored TJ138 is in post-war Dark Green/Dark Sea Grey/Medium Dea Grey while KB424 is a Canadian-built aircraft and the colours probably differ from those produced in the UK for MAP.

[Jon Kunac-Tabinor]

Hiya -personally I rather like Tamiya's acrylic ocean grey - looks to have the right amount of bluey-ness to it. Although the old Aeromaster acrylic ocean grey seemed even better to me, and the pot of Howes Railmatch ocean grey ( 1 of the small RAF range they did very briefly a few years ago) seems even nicer.

I also wonder whether ocean grey changed in its colour during its brief existence - I'd swear late war OG is bluer than its mid war version - but perhaps its due to colourprints changing from the era too?

The other thing is - Id try Tamiya Medium Sea Grey - I think that will give you a better contrast. Xtracrylix MSG wouldnt be the first Xtracrylix paint thats too dark...

Jonners

[Dave Fleming]

Xtracrylix MSG is too dark - Xtracolor is much better,

[Giorgio N]

Personally speaking, I don't think that the Xtracrylix OG has enough contrast against their MSG, which is why I thought I'd try the Humbrol and Tamiya versions of OG to compare and, er, contrast! Or perhaps the Xtracrylix MSG is a bit too dark, and maybe I ought to try Tamiya's MSG too, as PTE1943 suggests...

Cheers

Simon

Yes, it is IMHO.

[Master Zen]

IMHO Xtracrylix is the closest you'll get in acryl. It really looks good once painted and contrasts nicely with MSG. Please note that cameras often do not capture the actual tone of a color compared to what the naked eye sees and Ocean Gray is one of those colors which often appears different depending on the shade, the amount of sunlight, the angle etc. But rest assured that Xtracrylix will NOT disappoint.

On the other hand, avoid Tamiya. It's waay too blue and you'll notice it especially once you spray Dark Green. I was building a Spitfire XIV and used Tamiya and it looked ok, but once I added the Dark Green I regretted it. I ended up repainting with Xtracrylix and it looks fabulous now.

[Master Zen]

This is the Spit with Tamiya Ocean Gray. OG should look blueish under certain angles but this is ridiculously blue:

Anyway, use at your own risk!

[Fernando]

HI,

Of course the following are "educated personal opinions", no more, no less.

Ocean Grey should be bluish. Just compare it to Dark Sea Grey or to FS 36118 to see it. But on the other hand, the Xtracrilycs version IS lighter than the Xtracolour one! which is a bit weird, and perhaps compounded by the fact that MSG and DGreen are a bit darker!. Xtracolour is IMHO spot on, and the combination OG/DG/MSG looks just right.

FErnando

[Edgar]

I also wonder whether ocean grey changed in its colour during its brief existence

The specification/samples didn't change, but the material did; in late 1942 Supermarine went over from cellulose to synthetic resin paints, which appear to have had a better smooth finish, and were easier to maintain. At the same time better TLC was introduced, for the erks to follow during maintenance, with rubbing down by wet-and-dry paper, followed by a washdown with clean water. This could easily have changed the appearance of the paint. Bristol, and Hawker, soon followed suit, and I suspect others did, as well.

Edgar

[Bertie McBoatface]

The specification/samples didn't change, but the material did; in late 1942 Supermarine went over from cellulose to synthetic resin paints, which appear to have had a better smooth finish, and were easier to maintain. At the same time better TLC was introduced, for the erks to follow during maintenance, with rubbing down by wet-and-dry paper, followed by a washdown with clean water. This could easily have changed the appearance of the paint. Bristol, and Hawker, soon followed suit, and I suspect others did, as well.

Edgar

Cheers Edgar, THAT is fascinating and explains the huge difference I see between pictures taken early in the war to those from later on. The BoB period aircraft look so awfully scruffy and faded, now I know why!

My personal take on colour matching, for what it's worth, is that it's probably impossible to get it 'perfectly right' so that gives me the excuse (as if I need one) to paint with whatever shades and hues please me. That's my opinion anyway, please don't think I am trying to persuade you all to follow my lead.

[pte1643]

in late 1942 Supermarine went over from cellulose to synthetic resin paints

That is pretty interesting.

I remember talking to one of the guys at Norwich museum a while ago, he said they used to get colour matched "Auto" paint for thier restorations, but switched to an Epoxy based paint (I assume, similar to that they are now using on the Forth Bridge) as the Epoxy paint held up to the weather better for the exhibits that are outside.

[Nick Millman]

HI,

Of course the following are "educated personal opinions", no more, no less.

Ocean Grey should be bluish. Just compare it to Dark Sea Grey or to FS 36118 to see it. But on the other hand, the Xtracrilycs version IS lighter than the Xtracolour one! which is a bit weird, and perhaps compounded by the fact that MSG and DGreen are a bit darker!. Xtracolour is IMHO spot on, and the combination OG/DG/MSG looks just right.

FErnando

With the usual caveat about the difference between a paint colour standard and applied paints, the Ocean Grey MAP swatch is 2 cents. The closest FS value to it is 2 cents @ 2.70 where < 2.0 = a close match. 2 cents is lighter and greyer (not quite "blue" enough) but would probably be ok as a guide towards the closest hobby paint, taking into account the slight "greenishness" of 2 cents (which is too light) and the dreaded "scale effect". As to 2 cents the difference calculation is 4.60 - it is darker, greyer and more purplish without the very slight "greenish" cast of Ocean Grey.

Looking at the swatches in the first post and taking them at face value the Xtracrylix seems ok but the MSG appears very dark and slightly too warm.

Just my 2 cents.

Regards

Nick

Edited July 5, 2011 by Nick Millman

[Mike G]

With the usual caveat about the difference between a paint colour standard and applied paints, the Ocean Grey MAP swatch is 2.6 B 4.1/1.1. The closest FS value to it is 26152 @ 2.70 where < 2.0 = a close match. 26152 is lighter and greyer (not quite "blue" enough) but would probably be ok as a guide towards the closest hobby paint, taking into account the slight "greenishness" of 26187 (which is too light) and the dreaded "scale effect". As to 36118 the difference calculation is 4.60 - it is darker, greyer and more purplish without the very slight "greenish" cast of Ocean Grey.

Looking at the swatches in the first post and taking them at face value the Xtracrylix seems ok but the MSG appears very dark and slightly too warm.

Regards

Nick

If you're looking for something out of the tin, the White Ensign Models version of Ocean Grey (ACRN07) is pretty much spot on when compared with the chip in British Aircraft Colours of World War Two.

Nick might want to check out RAL 7031 (Blaugrau) which looks a very clost match. This is replicated by Revell 79 but this is too dark. Mixing it 3:2 with white produces a very close match to Ocean Grey to my eye. While this requires mixing, it will be cheaper than the White Ensign paint and maybe easier to find. I'm also not a fan of the formulation of WEM's paints.

Hope this helps.

[Nick Millman]

If you're looking for something out of the tin, the White Ensign Models version of Ocean Grey (ACRN07) is pretty much spot on when compared with the chip in British Aircraft Colours of World War Two.

Nick might want to check out RAL 7031 (Blaugrau) which looks a very clost match. This is replicated by Revell 79 but this is too dark. Mixing it 3:2 with white produces a very close match to Ocean Grey to my eye. While this requires mixing, it will be cheaper than the White Ensign paint and maybe easier to find. I'm also not a fan of the formulation of WEM's paints.

Hope this helps.

Ocean Grey to RAL 7031 @ 2 cents where < 2.0 = a close match. 7031 is marginally lighter and without the subtle "greenishness".

Just my 2 cents.

Regards

Nick

Edited July 5, 2011 by Nick Millman

[Mike G]

Ocean Grey to RAL 7031 @ 2.71 where < 2.0 = a close match. 7031 is marginally lighter and without the subtle "greenishness".

Regards

Nick

I agree that the mix might need a little green added. Revell 79 although quoted as RAL 7031 is quite a lot darker and needs white adding even to match the RAL standard.

[JosephLalor]

If going down the Revell route, how about using 59 Sky instead of white to lighten 79? It might impart that greenish tint. Or may be a spot of white and yellow? Haven't tried either so I don't know if they'd work.

Joseph