zero Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 (edited) Well I'm nearing the point of throwing some paint on my British phantom XT783 from the 1970's. I've got numerous Tamiya paints, but I know Tamiya have recently released the following XF-81 RAF Dark Green XF-82 RAF Ocean Grey XF-83 RAF Medium Sea Grey Any one used them and what are your views on the colours and there correctness. would you use any others? I'm building this scheme (see below) via the Xtradecal decals (J), but I'd like to confirm best matches before ordering, so any views are most welcome TIA Dave Edited June 27, 2011 by zero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 (edited) Only the dark green could be used, as the colours listed by tamiya are ok for a WW2 plane and the phantoms used a different scheme where only the dak green remained. The dark grey on top became dark sea grey and the light gey on the bottom surfaces became light aircraft grey. If you're using tamiya, then XF54 dark sea grey is not too bad (but not great..) an approximation for, well.. dark sea grey ! No tamiya paint that I tried was ever a good approximation of light aircraft grey, although I haven't tried every tamiya light grey in the catalogue. Personally I'd use Xtracrylics or check if Lifecolour has the right ones i you use acryics. Dark green and dark sea grey can be done with Vallejo paints, but not the lighter grey. If you use enamels, humbrol, xtracolour and WEM have good paints. Edit: I'm pretty sure gunze has them all too ! And if you use tamiya you'll have no problems with gunze paints Edited June 27, 2011 by Giorgio N Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted June 27, 2011 Author Share Posted June 27, 2011 Only the dark green could be used, as the colours listed by tamiya are ok for a WW2 plane and the phantoms used a different scheme where only the dak green remained. The dark grey on top became dark sea grey and the light gey on the bottom surfaces became light aircraft grey.If you're using tamiya, then XF54 dark sea grey is not too bad (but not great..) an approximation for, well.. dark sea grey ! No tamiya paint that I tried was ever a good approximation of light aircraft grey, although I haven't tried every tamiya light grey in the catalogue. Personally I'd use Xtracrylics or check if Lifecolour has the right ones i you use acryics. Dark green and dark sea grey can be done with Vallejo paints, but not the lighter grey. If you use enamels, humbrol, xtracolour and WEM have good paints. Edit: I'm pretty sure gunze has them all too ! And if you use tamiya you'll have no problems with gunze paints Thanks, for that, I did think they were for WWII RAF aircraft, didn't realise they were so far out bar the underside one which I know is a lot lighter? with a rack full of Tamiya I'm happy to do a bit of mixing if need be, but I'd rather get by with Tamiya out of the bottle, if I can. but as alway, I doubt it will be that simple cheers Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 I know what you mean, tamiya paints are not really too friendly to aircraft modellers. I did a Harrier GR1 a while ago with tamiya paints and used a mix of XF61 and XF62 for the green and straight XF54 for the dark sea grey. The result was not bad. Of course now with XF81 there's no need to mix the green but this can be used as it is and you'd have sorted the top surfaces. I could however find anything for the lower surfaces. Might be one of the light greys works well, but I'm not sure. In my case I used an old tin of humbrol authentic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennings Heilig Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 Light Aircraft Grey is the same (basic) color as USN Light Gull Gray (FS x6440). It's unlike any color the RAF used in WWII, being much more of a warm brownish grey (the color of, not surprisingly, sea gulls, hence the name). J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike G Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 Light Aircraft Grey is the same (basic) color as USN Light Gull Gray (FS x6440). It's unlike any color the RAF used in WWII, being much more of a warm brownish grey (the color of, not surprisingly, sea gulls, hence the name).J As Jennings says Light Aircraft Grey is similar but lighter than 36440. Perhaps Nick (Mr Colour) Millman could give chapter and verse!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennings Heilig Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 IPMS Stockholm's web site is your friend here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thx6667 Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 (edited) XF-54 Dark Sea Grey/XF-69 NATO Black and a dash of X-4 will get you pretty much a dead on match. Edited June 28, 2011 by Jonathan Mock 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted June 28, 2011 Author Share Posted June 28, 2011 IPMS Stockholm's web site is your friend here... Cheers Jen I have the charts already printed, but my problem is getting close enough, with what I have if I can. XF-54 Dark Sea Grey/XF-69 NATO Black and a dash of X-4 will get you pretty much a dead on match. Thanks, I'm going to start a journal of my builds and paints used from now on, so I think I have some mixing ahead. thanks for everyones input so far Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveJL Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 Medium sea grey 2 looks bang on for the new tornado paint schemes. Not sure if it would work for your camo scheme but the colour is very good. Looks a lot like barely grey so you could perhaps use it on an all grey F-4. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigsty Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 Light Aircraft Grey is the same (basic) color as USN Light Gull Gray (FS x6440). It's unlike any color the RAF used in WWII, being much more of a warm brownish grey (the color of, not surprisingly, sea gulls, hence the name).J I hear this a lot but I've never been convinced. To my eye light aircraft grey has a slight caramel tinge and light gull gray is ever so slightly pink. There's not much in it, but they're definitely different. Which I assume is why Humbrol offers 166 and 129 respectively, and Xtracolor has 015 and 137. I'm sure if they were the same, Xtracolor wouldn't have taken the trouble to mix up separate batches.* * I'm trying to reduce my cynicism quotient ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 I hear this a lot but I've never been convinced. To my eye light aircraft grey has a slight caramel tinge and light gull gray is ever so slightly pink. There's not much in it, but they're definitely different. Which I assume is why Humbrol offers 166 and 129 respectively, and Xtracolor has 015 and 137. I'm sure if they were the same, Xtracolor wouldn't have taken the trouble to mix up separate batches.** I'm trying to reduce my cynicism quotient ... Looks the same to me, and is definitely different from light gull grey, although yes both are greys with a hint of brown (more in LAG, less in LGG). True that many kit instructions suggest the use of the latter for LAG, but it's only an approximation. The history behind the introduction of LAG has no point of contact with light gull grey whatsoever, they have similarities in the brown tinge but that's it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Millman Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 (edited) As Jennings says Light Aircraft Grey is similar but lighter than 36440. Perhaps Nick (Mr Colour) Millman could give chapter and verse!! Well, since you ask! Checking the BS381c cited L*a*b* values for 627 Light Aircraft Grey (LAG) against FS 36440 (LGG) there is a difference calculation of 2.51 where < 2.0 = a close match. So there is not a close match but perhaps a "fair" match. In juxtaposition against a neutral background the difference is discernable to the eye but more so when one colour is positioned directly on the other. The calculated Munsell value for LAG is 7.6 Y 7.1/0.4 whereas BS381c cite 4.2 GY 7.0/0.5 (with a note that it is not to be used for matching purposes). That sounds odd but when the two differing Munsell values are compared the difference is only 1.69. So the degree of green hue in LAG seems to be in contention with the BSi too! That might be down to pigment correction issues where the yellowing tendency of some zinc-based constituents has to be offset by blue pigment, creating "fugitive" green hues. LGG is Munsell 2.0 GY 6.9/0.7. Despite the various perceptions there is slightly more "greenishness" to LGG and it is a little darker than LAG, but these subtle differences might not be apparent in the hobby paints for these colours. Be warned that these differences might also not be apparent when looking at a FS 595B fan deck - compare 36440 directly to 36463 to better appreciate the " slight greenishness" of the former. However there is also the real probability that metameric observer failure through yellowing in the lens and macular pigment of the eye will give rise to different perceptions about the degree of "brown" or "green" in these colours. Subtly tinted neutral greys are especially susceptible to this problem. Any perceived model differences will depend upon how closely the LGG paint matches the actual FS value. Whether any slight difference would "throw-off" the upper surface colours I couldn't say. But in summation I venture that the relatively small difference between the two colours might easily be accounted for in full scale paint batch and age differences anyway. Regards Nick Edited June 29, 2011 by Nick Millman 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul A H Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 Although I do like Tamiya paints and use them where I can, getting a mix right can be fiddly. I needed a lot of Dark Earth for my 100 Group B-17 and in the end I invested in some Gunze acryclics from MDC, including Dark Sea Grey and Light Aircraft Grey. So far I've been mightily impressed with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrish Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 very helpful. thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacktjet Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 (edited) Difference in shades can and will be dependent on two other factors - the colour of the primer and the applied thickness of the top colour. These two points vary from aircraft to aircraft and can explain why a certain colour doesn't look the same when two different aircraft are compared to each other. If you want your model to have an exact scale colour match, you would also have to take into account the age of the paint and the light and the surrounding colours that would reflect off the surface. Edited January 17, 2017 by Blacktjet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lesliegl Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 From what info I can gather...Tamiya XF75 IJN grey for Dark Sea Grey and Tamiya XF77 IJN grey for Extra Dark Sea Grey..look pretty close to me.. Leslie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Duncan B had some thoughts on Dark Sea Grey too. Where are you Duncan? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan B Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 6 hours ago, SovereignHobbies said: Duncan B had some thoughts on Dark Sea Grey too. Where are you Duncan? I don't know! (chrish has already seen my thread about this subject) Duncan B 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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