WWII VVS Colours

[Fernando]

Hi, Learstang,

It is amazing how, after so much heated debate and seemingly irreconciliable opposing positions and parties, "In Modelling Terms" everyone of us come to more or less the same conclusions!

Cheers,

Fernando

PD: the models are very well done. The only colour I would say looks a bit dark to me is AMT-11 and possibly, though much less so, AMT-7

Edited February 5, 2016 by Fernando

[Learstang]

Yes, Fernando, it is interesting how people talk about the 'minefield' of Soviet colours, yet the situation is so much simpler than say for the RLM colours, where people can't even agree on what colour RLM 83 was (was it light green, dark green, or even blue?). And the continuing (and endless) debate about Olive Drab has been mentioned. It seems that most people agree on the basic colours, although there is still some disagreement about how dark/light the colours should be. When you think about it, Soviet GPW colours were quite simple - black and green over blue from 1941-43, then dark grey, tan, and green over blue from late 1943-45 for most aircraft, except for the fighters, which were in AMT-12 Dark Grey and AMT-11 Grey-Blue over AMT-7 Blue. Then you have A-14 Steel Grey for the interior colour. That's seven colours in total, and that covers about 95 percent of the Soviet-built aircraft used during the war (excepting the Lend-Lease aircraft, of course). And these paints/colours were all manufactured by the same big 'company'.

Regards,

Jason

Edited February 5, 2016 by Learstang

[John Thompson]

Yes, Fernando, it is interesting how people talk about the 'minefield' of Soviet colours, yet the situation is so much simpler than say for the RLM colours, where people can't even agree on what colour RLM 83 was (was it light green, dark green, or even blue?). And the continuing (and endless) debate about Olive Drab has been mentioned. It seems that most people agree on the basic colours, although there is still some disagreement about how dark/light the colours should be. When you think about it, Soviet GPW colours were quite simple - black and green over blue from 1941-43, then dark grey, tan, and green over blue from late 1943-45 for most aircraft, except for the fighters, which were in AMT-12 Dark Grey and AMT-11 Grey-Blue over AMT-7 Blue. Then you have A-14 Steel Grey for the interior colour. That's seven colours in total, and that covers about 95 percent of the Soviet-built aircraft used during the war (excepting the Lend-Lease aircraft, of course). And these paints/colours were all manufactured by the same big 'company'.

Regards,

Jason

Now that's a good and useful summary which should satisfy the needs of 95% of modelbuilders (including me), perhaps worth printing and framing for reference the next time the conversation turns to "minefields" or "cans of worms". Speaking from personal experience, I simply went out (in the digital sense) and bought a set of Akan acrylics and never looked back. Model on, folks!

John

[Dimmy]

Soviet GPW colours were quite simple - black and green over blue from 1941-43, then dark grey, tan, and green over blue from late 1943-45 for most aircraft, except for the fighters, which were in AMT-12 Dark Grey and AMT-11 Grey-Blue over AMT-7 Blue. Then you have A-14 Steel Grey for the interior colour.

Someone really needs to pin this post at top of the board!

[Mike Starmer]

This is of great interest to me since I have been wrestling with Humbrol mixes for VVS colours for some weeks and all based on the multiple FS standard numbers gleaned from about six references. Is it worth me carrying on or wait till Sovereign Hobbies produce them?

[spitfire]

Hi Mike, the more the merrier, VVS colours have been much neglected, WEM's efforts were a step in the right direction and I am sure that it encouraged more modellers to look at VVS subjects, I know I bought all of their VVS paints. Maybe have a word with James.

Cheers

Dennis

[SleeperService]

Then you need access to the Albom Nakrasok in Russian archives. There are also preserved sample cards showing the permissible variation.

IIRC from the discussions on ARC/HS/Britmodeler (Kari ?) there was a preserved copy of Albom Nakrasok in Finland that might be more accessible.

The Vakhlamov/Orlov book won't help you as it has no chips or LAB values.

Vedran

The milimeter brigade

Just wandered into this minefield Kari is the poster you're thinking of Vedran see #22 above.

I hope you manage to achieve your goal James. I have several VVS aircraft to build but now I have nothing to rely on. I wished I could speak or rather read Russian...

[Seawinder]

This is of great interest to me since I have been wrestling with Humbrol mixes for VVS colours for some weeks and all based on the multiple FS standard numbers gleaned from about six references. Is it worth me carrying on or wait till Sovereign Hobbies produce them?

Why don't you just invest in a few bottles of the AKAN paints? As stated above, you can get them in enamel, acrylic lacquer and aqueous acrylic formulation. I prefer the first two, and the acrylic lacquers are the most easily available (lindenhillimports.com) in the USA. Hobbycolours.com has all three lines and is located somewhere in Europe (I think).

[Dimmy]

Vallejo is currently working on VVS set in their new Air War Color Series

[JWM]

On 2/5/2016 at 6:06 PM, Learstang said:

es, Fernando, it is interesting how people talk about the 'minefield' of Soviet colours, yet the situation is so much simpler than say for the RLM colours, where people can't even agree on what colour RLM 83 was (was it light green, dark green, or even blue?). And the continuing (and endless) debate about Olive Drab has been mentioned. It seems that most people agree on the basic colours, although there is still some disagreement about how dark/light the colours should be. When you think about it, Soviet GPW colours were quite simple - black and green over blue from 1941-43, then dark grey, tan, and green over blue from late 1943-45 for most aircraft, except for the fighters, which were in AMT-12 Dark Grey and AMT-11 Grey-Blue over AMT-7 Blue. Then you have A-14 Steel Grey for the interior colour. That's seven colours in total, and that covers about 95 percent of the Soviet-built aircraft used during the war (excepting the Lend-Lease aircraft, of course). And these paints/colours were all manufactured by the same big 'company'.

Regards,

Jason

Jason,

do the naval machines like Beriev MBR2 or Be4 etc.  wear the same colours are were they different than for land machines?

Cheers

J-W

 

[Learstang]

1 hour ago, JWM said:

Jason,

do the naval machines like Beriev MBR2 or Be4 etc.  wear the same colours are were they different than for land machines?

Cheers

J-W

 

That's a good question, J-W, and one I'm not certain about. I really haven't researched the Soviet seaplanes the way I have the land planes. At some point, I do intend to do a book on Soviet floatplanes and flying boats, but as of now, I don't know that much about the camouflage for the GPW seaplanes. I think it likely that in addition to the 'normal' VVS colours, the marine aircraft may have had their own camouflage schemes and colours. This is certainly an area that can be researched more, and one I intend on researching more, someday.

 

Best Regards,

 

Jason

[JWM]

1 hour ago, Learstang said:

That's a good question, J-W, and one I'm not certain about. I really haven't researched the Soviet seaplanes the way I have the land planes. At some point, I do intend to do a book on Soviet floatplanes and flying boats, but as of now, I don't know that much about the camouflage for the GPW seaplanes. I think it likely that in addition to the 'normal' VVS colours, the marine aircraft may have had their own camouflage schemes and colours. This is certainly an area that can be researched more, and one I intend on researching more, someday.

 

Best Regards,

 

Jason

Thank you. In Polish literature on Soviet WWII machnes they name for example green as "naval green" so it suggest a different shade, but nothing more precise...

I am going now to do series of Berievs (MBR2 M17, MBR2 bis, KOR 1 and KOR 2), so I wish to recognize it bit better. Maybe @Massimo Tessitori will help a bit...

Regards

J-W

 

 

[Graham Boak]

I'm currently playing with a Be.4, for which the artwork simply shows a medium green.  I do recall (long time ago) a reference to Soviet waterborne aircraft as being grey, but have no idea of its accuracy or precise shade.  I hope that this thread turns out to be informative.

[Troy Smith]

56 minutes ago, JWM said:

In Polish literature on Soviet WWII machnes they name for example green as "naval green" so it suggest a different shade, but nothing more precise..

AMT-10 is the naval aviation green.

There was a thread on Sovietwarplanes about this, and it is listed in the VVS colour chart on the site.

I'll edit in the links if I can find the thread, it has some wreck photos IIRC

 

EDIT 

http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/board/index.php?topic=2186.0

 

 

[JWM]

After short googling I have found that recent very nice (I regred not in 1/72) model of Be 4 by Mars Models shows such schemes

So on the very last line are suggested colours also by Humbrol! 

Cheers

J-W

 

 

[Learstang]

Those are some interesting schemes on the Be-4. Some of those schemes do look different from VVS schemes, although I notice that a couple of them are post-war. (I do wish Mars Models would downscale this model to 1/72nd scale.)

 

Regards,

 

Jason

[JWM]

26 minutes ago, Learstang said:

Those are some interesting schemes on the Be-4. Some of those schemes do look different from VVS schemes, although I notice that a couple of them are post-war. (I do wish Mars Models would downscale this model to 1/72nd scale.)

 

ditto!

J-W

[dragonlanceHR]

Option 2, A-19 over AE-9 is my favourite.

 

Cheers,

 

Vedran

[Massimo Tessitori]

Interesting. Some of those colors are new for me. I wonder what their sources are, but at first look they look credible.

The Humbrol matches are very approximative, 80 and 115 are used as matches for different paints while Gunze matches are different.

Some time ago Xan wrote to have discovered the colors of Soviet navy hydroplanes but he was waiting the publication of something before revealing them, I wonder if the things are related. 

Regards

Massimo

[wombat]

Interested thread. Did Sovereign/Colourcoats succeed in updating their range (oh and I would say any excuse for a trip to Finland is a good one...)

[John Thompson]

1 hour ago, wombat said:

Did Sovereign/Colourcoats succeed in updating their range

 

Good question - I was wondering the same thing myself.

 

John

[Graham Boak]

A quick look over to the website came up with a discussion on the two grays, which have been replaced, so I would surmise that the others have been too.  Perhaps it says more elsewhere on the website.  I've a feeling that in that case I'm in for a new order too.

 

PS another check shows three colours as "coming soon".  I'm sure Jamie will say of all the others have been changed, or there are still a few more.

Edited November 30, 2019 by Graham Boak

[spitfire]

The VVS colours were updated

 

 

Cheers

 

Dennis

[wombat]

but even that thread quickly digresses to “mmmm are you sure about that shade...?”🧐

[Antti_K]

Hello guys,

 

I had a chance to study two MiG-3s here in Finland last summer. Both aircraft still carry their original Soviet paintwork and the surfaces are in good condition. I made colour comparisons using the Swedish NCS colour system. Here are my findings:

 

- olive green; NCS S7020-G50Y and also S6030-G50Y

- light blue; NCS S3020-B50G

 

The first green example is close to Humbrol 80 but slightly darker. The light blue is pretty close to current Humbrol 65.

 

Cheers,

Antti