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per ardua ad ostentationem

Avro Lancaster 1:48 Tamiya

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I was about to make a comment about the accuracy of using the Tamiya Austin Tilly since these were not generally used by the RAF - they tended to use the Standard and Hillman Tilly, however looking at your original photo more closely, that really does look like an Austin Tilly, distinguishable by the curved (as opposed to flat) slotted radiator grille.

So there you go, you have possibly found a VERY rare photo of an Austin Tilly in RAF service. There was an extensive discussion on this topic on the boards earlier this year: http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.p...=65671&st=0

By the way, really interested and enjoying following your build so far...

Edited by Kallisti

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Hi Per

great work so far, love the flaps. A couple of points/suggestions. All the crew had seatbelts though the mid upper was sat on a sling. The Tamiya 4000lb'er is too small, I take it that is the kit offering? I recently got some American 500lbd bombs and have 2 sets of the bombs that come with the Trumpy Wellington. Though your bombs look great p'raps next time you'd consider a mixed load. Keep up the good work, looking forward to the finished item,

Regards

Paul

Thanks Paul and thanks too, to all of the posters who are encouraging me so.

I have some Trumpeter bombs around the place somewhere too. I didn't think there were any big ones though. I must say I do like the idea of some US bombs to prompt questions at shows! I've seen reference to mixed loads and by Christmas '42 there would surely have been more than a few in the stores system. Time to start robbing the stash?

And thanks for the seatbelt info too! I'll put some lapbelts in. The mid upper seems to have gone somewhere in the pictures; either blown our or dropped in!

Edited by per ardua ad ostentationem

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I was about to make a comment about the accuracy of using the Tamiya Austin Tilly since these were not generally used by the RAF - they tended to use the Standard and Hillman Tilly, however looking at your original photo more closely, that really does look like an Austin Tilly, distinguishable by the curved (as opposed to flat) slotted radiator grille.

So there you go, you have possibly found a VERY rare photo of an Austin Tilly in RAF service. There was an extensive discussion on this topic on the boards earlier this year: http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.p...=65671&st=0

By the way, really interested and enjoying following your build so far...

THANK YOU! Colour pictures of the tilly with a brown tilt, exactly as I wanted to do it and now I can. Well, I would have anyway but now I'll be smug about it. (Yes, I did read on far enought to realise that it was in '633 Squadron' but that was a documentary wasn't it?)

Thanks for the encouragement too.

Edited by per ardua ad ostentationem

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This does look great Don. :clap:

I wouldn't know where to start when trying to scratch build. References obviously, but trying to work out the thickness of something, or the diameter, just beyond me. :o

Deacon

My approach is to do what looks right to me and then ignore the critics and listen hard to people who approve!

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Hi Per

Look up the Lancaster and Manchester Bomber Archive. Click on the Lancaster page and under operational data you'll see a section called bomb loads. There are twelve different configurations there all with descriptions of type and use. Actually the website is a must for Lanc nuts as is the forum,

Regards

Paul

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Great progress....

"It can also burn through kits if you use too much. Like Alien 'molecular acid' blood."

Now there is a thought.... :analintruder:

Cheers,

ggc

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Great modelling, even better hints and tips! :)

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Hi Per

Look up the Lancaster and Manchester Bomber Archive. Click on the Lancaster page and under operational data you'll see a section called bomb loads. There are twelve different configurations there all with descriptions of type and use. Actually the website is a must for Lanc nuts as is the forum,

Regards

Paul

Interesting, thanks. I have found two American 500 pounders which I think I'll bung in, just for luck! I'm keeping the cookie though; it's good enough for me.

No modelling for me tonight, I'm shattered after riding to and from work on a push-bike for the first time today (and there was some pushing involved, it's hilly here in the Peak District). With overtime tomorrow and Thursday, and drinking on Friday, there's likely not going to be much to see here until the weekend.

Keep on keeping on,

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I hadn't much time for the Q-Queenie today but did manage a little work of a relatively mindless nature on the tail. Sanding seams and attaching a fin and an elevator. Pretty boring stuff ... but wait!

Usually I sand seams with 400 grit, then 800, then 1200 and finish off with a brisk and firm rubdown with either: a piece of nylon stocking or a square of spectacle cleaning cloth (free from specsavers, just ask them). Both of these fabrics give a nice final polish, though I personally prefer stockings (OK boys, let's not go there in your replies, please!). Well, tonight I couldn't find either of these but there was a wad of cheap kitchen roll/paper towel on the desk so I tried that.

It's better by far, giving a smooth and shiny finish in seconds flat! Whoopee! I like finding things out.

Unfortunately, it's probably impossible to photograph the results especially in black plastic. I'll have a go though and tag it on to the next batch of pictures if I get a reasonable pic.

Evenin' All!

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Here's a photo which sorta shows the polish I achieved with the kitchen roll. The vertical fin has been finished with the cloth and the horizontal stabiliser with the kitchen roll. Can you see the difference in the shine?

firstthreepages102.jpg

I have astigmatism and Specsavers varifocal glasses so getting things alligned properly is a pain. Maybe that's why I liked this 'bent bomber'?

Firstthreepages103.jpg

Inspirational photo from the recent Coventry show. This guy really knows how to scratchbuild a wreck! I won't be that good, obviously.

Firstthreepages101.jpg

And finally, what is it about crashed Lancasters what appeals to me so? This Revell kit was a rare foray into 1:72. I did it as a one week blitz build some years ago which is why the base is so crude. I thought you might like it though.

Firstthreepages97.jpg

Firstthreepages98.jpg

Firstthreepages99.jpg

Firstthreepages100.jpg

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I was about to make a comment about the accuracy of using the Tamiya Austin Tilly since these were not generally used by the RAF - they tended to use the Standard and Hillman Tilly, however looking at your original photo more closely, that really does look like an Austin Tilly, distinguishable by the curved (as opposed to flat) slotted radiator grille.

So there you go, you have possibly found a VERY rare photo of an Austin Tilly in RAF service. There was an extensive discussion on this topic on the boards earlier this year:

By the way, really interested and enjoying following your build so far...

Its hard to tell from the image but its equally possible, and far more likely, that its a Hillman Tilly, very similar and also with a rounded radiator grille

Mil10a.jpg

Here is an RAF Hillman in two-tone Brown 'Mickey Mouse' camo...

WW2RAFTilly.jpg

The Austins headlamps are much more prominent being mounted at the sides of the radiator grille, on the Hillman they are much lower mounted on the front wings.

Edited by TheModeller

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Its hard to tell from the image but its equally possible, and far more likely, that its a Hillman Tilly, very similar and also with a rounded radiator grille

Here is an RAF Hillman in two-tone Brown 'Mickey Mouse' camo...

The Austins headlamps are much more prominent being mounted at the sides of the radiator grille, on the Hillman they are much lower mounted on the front wings.

Thank to the Modeller for that. I'm still using the Austin anyway. It's close enough for me. I do like the mickey mouse camouflage though ... then again, I like the blue one as well. Life is so hard when we let accuracy bother us.

Bother accuracy! I'm going for blue. lol.

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I thought that at first but looked at the picture again and thought I could see the slatted radiator grille of the Austin. However a little bit of work with photoshop shows this:

IMG_0255_zoom.jpg

which to me doesn't now show the slatted grille of the Austin so I agree with you it most likely to be the Hillman version in this case. Sadly I haven't found a Hillman Tilly in 1:48 scale - I built the Accurate Armour Standard Tilly for my BoB diorama earlier this year

DSCF3776.JPG

and they do a 1:35 scale Hillman Tilly

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I thought that at first but looked at the picture again and thought I could see the slatted radiator grille of the Austin. However a little bit of work with photoshop shows this:

which to me doesn't now show the slatted grille of the Austin so I agree with you it most likely to be the Hillman version in this case. Sadly I haven't found a Hillman Tilly in 1:48 scale - I built the Accurate Armour Standard Tilly for my BoB diorama earlier this year

and they do a 1:35 scale Hillman Tilly

I refer the honorable gentleman to the answer I made earlier. "Bother accuracy!" I'd use a landrover if I though it looked good. Lol. (I wish I'd never mentioned the truck now.)

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I refer the honorable gentleman to the answer I made earlier. "Bother accuracy!" I'd use a landrover if I though it looked good. Lol. (I wish I'd never mentioned the truck now.)

I think we were more excited by the possiblity that a picture had turned up showing an Austin Tilly in RAF service, something the Tilly Register have been trying to find for many years.

What you choose to do with your diorama is, of course, your own choice.

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I think we were more excited by the possiblity that a picture had turned up showing an Austin Tilly in RAF service, something the Tilly Register have been trying to find for many years.

What you choose to do with your diorama is, of course, your own choice.

No worries, mate and no offence intended or taken.

I've just had a quick look at The Tilly Register website. I had no idea there was such passion in the world for the old things. To me a Tilly's just a bit of window dressing to give a sense of scale to the casual viewer. I didn't even know that there was more than one sort! In fact there seem to be enough variations for a Tilly Group Build!

Edited by per ardua ad ostentationem

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Thats what I first thought when I started looking at doing my BoB diorama, I was quite happy to drop an Austin Tilly in there but the more research I did the more interesting it got so I ended up using the Standard and I've still got the Austin in its box waiting to be built. In the meantime I got a the 1:35 Tilly from Tamiya and used it in a different diorama and had a huge amount of fun with it.

DSCF3754.JPG

(more photos here: 1:35 Austin Tilly Diorama )

Tilly Group Build, now THAT is a nice idea!

Edited by Kallisti

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No worries, mate and no offence intended or taken.

I've just had a quick look at The Tilly Register website. I had no idea there was such passion in the world for the old things. To me a Tilly's just a bit of window dressing to give a sense of scale to the casual viewer. I didn't even know that there was more than one sort! In fact there seem to be enough variations for a Tilly Group Build!

Well as with almost every veteran and vintage vehicle, especially subjects that served in WWII, there are people with a passion for them, probably more so than we have for our hobby!

And yes, all told 5 principle variations on the Light Utility or 'Tilly' concept, Standard produced 2 types, the 1/48th AA resin kit represents the later version built from the outset as a light truck, those produced by Austin, Morris and Hillman were all based on the manufacturers existing 10hp saloon cars.

In 1/48th there are the Tamiya Austin and the AA Standard 12hp, in 1/35 Tamiya, AA and SKP make the Austin while AA also make a Hillman. Only the Morris is lacking in either scale.

Armorama ran a Tilly group build last year mainly aimed at the Tamiya kits.

Anyway, we've hi-jacked your thread for long enough with this chat of little trucks.

Edited by TheModeller

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Thats what I first thought when I started looking at doing my BoB diorama, I was quite happy to drop an Austin Tilly in there but the more research I did the more interesting it got

Tilly Group Build, now THAT is a nice idea!

Well as with almost every veteran and vintage vehicle, especially subjects that served in WWII, there are people with a passion for them, probably more so than we have for our hobby!

Anyway, we've hi-jacked your thread for long enough with this chat of little trucks.

Hijacked? Nah, we've just had an interesting digression!

Listen guys, I'm using the Austin because that's what I've got here and cost is a consideration so you will have to allow me that. However, what colour would a RAF Tilly at Woodhall Spa in December 1942 most likely have been? Blue, green, camouflaged? That's body and tilt. I'll follow your suggestions, and build the truck this week. Getting bored with black plastic anyway. lol.

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Hijacked? Nah, we've just had an interesting digression!

Listen guys, I'm using the Austin because that's what I've got here and cost is a consideration so you will have to allow me that. However, what colour would a RAF Tilly at Woodhall Spa in December 1942 most likely have been? Blue, green, camouflaged? That's body and tilt. I'll follow your suggestions, and build the truck this week. Getting bored with black plastic anyway. lol.

The blue finish was abandoned around August '41 in favour of Army pattern camo, that varied a lot, early on it was a two-tone green in a wavy pattern, later the brown and brown/black scheme came along, I'd suggest a look at this thread for MikeS' comments:

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=65671

I think its Mike Starmer who is well known for his research into colours and markings of British/Commonwealth military vehicles. He has a detailed 'treatise' on British wartime colours and schemes via the MAFVA site:

http://www.mafva.net/other%20pages/Starmer%20camo.htm

HTH.

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Agreed, it would have been the camo'd version so use the colours suggested in one of the other two paint options in the Tilly kit, they will be accurate enough - you can use the 633 Squadron photo as reference, after all it was a "documentary" ;)

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Brilliant. Thanks guys, please watch this space for a Tilly by ... shall we say Saturday? I'd like to know what you think of the finished article.

I'd suggest sterring clear of the decals Tamiya provide for the RAF version, again these are based on a modern restoration, take a look at the markings on Kallisiti's Standard for a more typical layout.

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I'd suggest sterring clear of the decals Tamiya provide for the RAF version, again these are based on a modern restoration, take a look at the markings on Kallisiti's Standard for a more typical layout.

Agreed, I like the touch of yellow. I'm also doing the insides blue. Let's say it was repainted in September 42 into army colours but they didn't waste time with the interior!

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Agreed, it would have been the camo'd version so use the colours suggested in one of the other two paint options in the Tilly kit, they will be accurate enough - you can use the 633 Squadron photo as reference, after all it was a "documentary" ;)

Hi Kallisti, I can't see the colour tilly pics you posted here earlier. Would you mind putting them back for me please, I want to use that 633 sqn pic as a colour ref for the interior. Cheers

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