A few Hawker Typhoon questions that need answers

[phat trev]

On my way to completing the build stage of my Academy 1/72 Typhoon and I have a few questions which I have not found answers to in any books or on the net (yet)

In view of Squadron usage of 'bubble top' Typhoons.

* 1 Sqn (JX-) 195 Sqn (JE-) Did either of these Squadrons use the 'Bubble top' Tiffe (all I can find are car door photos)

* 197 Sqn (OV-) 263 Sqn (HE-) I am hoping that these Squadrons 'Bubble top' Typhoons had the regular tail planes and NOT the later tempest style...as I have used the former on my model.

Fiinally, * I see one of the first Typhoon squadrons at Duxford US- all had early 'car door' would this Squadron have used 'Bubble top' Typhoons?? even when they had moved from Duxford to other bases later in the war?

I hope some one can help out.

PT

[Wez]

On my way to completing the build stage of my Academy 1/72 Typhoon and I have a few questions which I have not found answers to in any books or on the net (yet)

In view of Squadron usage of 'bubble top' Typhoons.

* 1 Sqn (JX-) 195 Sqn (JE-) Did either of these Squadrons use the 'Bubble top' Tiffe (all I can find are car door photos)

* 197 Sqn (OV-) 263 Sqn (HE-) I am hoping that these Squadrons 'Bubble top' Typhoons had the regular tail planes and NOT the later tempest style...as I have used the former on my model.

Fiinally, * I see one of the first Typhoon squadrons at Duxford US- all had early 'car door' would this Squadron have used 'Bubble top' Typhoons?? even when they had moved from Duxford to other bases later in the war?

I hope some one can help out.

PT

Quite simply Chris Thomas is your man, what he doesn't know about Typhoon's and Tempest's probably isn't worth bothering with.

US- codes are 56 Sqn, I'm not sure but I think they went from car-door Tiffie's to Spitfire's to Tempests, I think they'd converted to Spit's by the time bubble top Typhoon's came along.

Wez

[Test Graham]

You need to look at dates and serials not just the squadron number. If you used the 4-blade prop you should have used the Tempest tailplane. Late a/c with 3-blade props will also have had it - I've a feeling that this applied to at least one of the Academy options if not both.

Chris Thomas has posted the appropriate serial ranges here, so if you do a search I expect you will find it.

[Andrew Jones]

Quite simply Chris Thomas is your man, what he doesn't know about Typhoon's and Tempest's probably isn't worth bothering with.

US- codes are 56 Sqn, I'm not sure but I think they went from car-door Tiffie's to Spitfire's to Tempests, I think they'd converted to Spit's by the time bubble top Typhoon's came along.

Wez

56 Sqd flew at least one bubble canopied Typhoon, JR503 / US*K, which was photographed at Martlesham Heath following a wheels up landing in early 1944.

[Chris Thomas]

Quite simply Chris Thomas is your man, what he doesn't know about Typhoon's and Tempest's probably isn't worth bothering with.

US- codes are 56 Sqn, I'm not sure but I think they went from car-door Tiffie's to Spitfire's to Tempests, I think they'd converted to Spit's by the time bubble top Typhoon's came along.

Wez

Well, I have been digging into this subject for more than 30 years ... 56 Sqn did actually have a short period with bubble-top Typhoons before converting to Spit IXs (as there were not enough Tempests - their intended equipment), roughly the first half of 1944.

Exactly the same with 1 Sqn. Photos of both 1 & 56 Sqn bubble-tops are like rocking-horse manure - I have come across one of 1 Sqn's and 2 of 56's.

195 Sqn was disbanded and reformed as a Lanc unit (!) about the time the bubble-canopy Typhoons were coming into service but they seem to have had a couple.

Some of 197 and 263's Typhoons will have had 3-bladers/small tailplanes, but 197 sqn will have gone on to use mostly 4-bladed, large tailplane aircraft as they were a bomber unit. 263 used RP, then bombs, then RP again so may have used more of a mix.

CT

[phat trev]

56 Sqd flew at least one bubble canopied Typhoon, JR503 / US*K, which was photographed at Martlesham Heath following a wheels up landing in early 1944.

Well, I have been digging into this subject for more than 30 years ... 56 Sqn did actually have a short period with bubble-top Typhoons before converting to Spit IXs (as there were not enough Tempests - their intended equipment), roughly the first half of 1944.

Exactly the same with 1 Sqn. Photos of both 1 & 56 Sqn bubble-tops are like rocking-horse manure - I have come across one of 1 Sqn's and 2 of 56's.

195 Sqn was disbanded and reformed as a Lanc unit (!) about the time the bubble-canopy Typhoons were coming into service but they seem to have had a couple.

Some of 197 and 263's Typhoons will have had 3-bladers/small tailplanes, but 197 sqn will have gone on to use mostly 4-bladed, large tailplane aircraft as they were a bomber unit. 263 used RP, then bombs, then RP again so may have used more of a mix.

CT

thanks guys.

Where would I have to look to find these pics?

It is interesting to me that the larger tailplanes would have been introduced for 'bombphoons' operations. I am not attaching RP hardpoints as I feel it takes the look of the Typhoon away so as a personal preferance I am adding empty bomb shackles.

You need to look at dates and serials not just the squadron number. If you used the 4-blade prop you should have used the Tempest tailplane. Late a/c with 3-blade props will also have had it - I've a feeling that this applied to at least one of the Academy options if not both.

Chris Thomas has posted the appropriate serial ranges here, so if you do a search I expect you will find it.

many thanks. oh I am doing a 3 bladed Tiffie.

[hacker]

l been thinking of doing another one in 1/32 but a car door version but as to schemes l find the car door are pretty basic while the bubble tops had more interesting ones

[brewerjerry]

Hi

There is at least one interesting cardoor scheme, that used by the captured examples used by the luftwaffe.( it is believed at least two, maybe three, were captured)

http://www.hobbyshop.cz/shop/1-48-decals/1...-148-decal.html

cheers

Jerry

Edited June 13, 2011 by brewerjerry

[ben_m]

l been thinking of doing another one in 1/32 but a car door version but as to schemes l find the car door are pretty basic while the bubble tops had more interesting ones

How about one of the desert camouflaged ones, or a White nosed one, or one of the few that had invasion stripes, or Operation Spartan nose stripe/black underwing, Operation Starkey? or the night fighter prototype. I almost forgot my favourite- Beamont's with yellow spinner and cannon fairings.

Edited June 14, 2011 by ben_m

[Obi-Jiff Kenobi]

* 1 Sqn (JX-) Did either of these Squadrons use the 'Bubble top' Tiffe (all I can find are car door photos)

There's a single photo of a 1 Sqn bubble top in the book "In All Things First: No.1 Squadron at War 1939-1945" by Peter Caygill, which also has a great selection of photos of 1 Sqn car-door Tiffies.

[Chris Thomas]

thanks guys.

Where would I have to look to find these pics?

It is interesting to me that the larger tailplanes would have been introduced for 'bombphoons' operations. I am not attaching RP hardpoints as I feel it takes the look of the Typhoon away so as a personal preferance I am adding empty bomb shackles.

many thanks. oh I am doing a 3 bladed Tiffie.

There are photos of 1 & 56 Sqn 'sliders' (what the pilots called bubble canopies when they were first introduced) in 'Typhoon & Tempest Story', Arms and Armour, 1988, by myself and Chris Shores. There is a better reproduction of the 1 Sqn aircraft (JX-I MN207) in the recent 'In All Things First' by Peter Caygill, Pen & Sword. The 56 sqn aircraft was US-K JR503.

What I failed to mention above, was that 263 Sqn started with bombs, before going one flight with bombs and the other with RP. Their initial equipment had Typhoon ident stripes under the wings, unit code letters aft of the roundel both sides, individual code repeated (about serial size but in white) on both sides of the 'chin'(towards the front and middle), eg HE-K JR389 and HE-T JR494 . The ident stripes were painted out later on both these aircraft.

All the aircraft above had 3-bladers and small tailplanes. All had faired exhausts (as per the old Airfix and Monogram kits) except MN207 which had the later exhaust fairing as per MN235 in the RAF Museum. Exhaust fairings were discarded c.June 44 as they were causing overheating problems.

CT

[ROGERD]

There are photos of 1 & 56 Sqn 'sliders' (what the pilots called bubble canopies when they were first introduced) in 'Typhoon & Tempest Story', Arms and Armour, 1988, by myself and Chris Shores. There is a better reproduction of the 1 Sqn aircraft (JX-I MN207) in the recent 'In All Things First' by Peter Caygill, Pen & Sword. The 56 sqn aircraft was US-K JR503.

What I failed to mention above, was that 263 Sqn started with bombs, before going one flight with bombs and the other with RP. Their initial equipment had Typhoon ident stripes under the wings, unit code letters aft of the roundel both sides, individual code repeated (about serial size but in white) on both sides of the 'chin'(towards the front and middle), eg HE-K JR389 and HE-T JR494 . The ident stripes were painted out later on both these aircraft.

All the aircraft above had 3-bladers and small tailplanes. All had faired exhausts (as per the old Airfix and Monogram kits) except MN207 which had the later exhaust fairing as per MN235 in the RAF Museum. Exhaust fairings were discarded c.June 44 as they were causing overheating problems.

CT

what about the leading edge landing lights? would theses have been faired over for RP A/C (as per the example at hendon)

I have a 1/32 kit in the stash - which I had forggoten about till I saw this thread

Rogerd

[Test Graham]

It is interesting to me that the larger tailplanes would have been introduced for 'bombphoons' operations. I am not attaching RP hardpoints as I feel it takes the look of the Typhoon away so as a personal preferance I am adding empty bomb shackles.

The large tailplanes were introduced to redress the reduction in stability caused by the 4-blade prop, and as such appeared on the line before the 4-blade prop was available. I'm sure I've seen a comment that these were also required for the carriage of the 1000lb bomb, but Chris Thomas has been unable to find any such link in the service clearances and there are even a few (just a few) examples of these bombs being carried by aircraft with the small tailplanes. However, the new-production aircraft with the large tailplanes were preferentially delivered to the bomber units, at least initially. This suggests to me that the reworked examples were preferentially delivered to the RP units, but I've a feeling that this should not be taken as an absolute rule.

There were many "bombphoons" with the small tailplane before the larger tailplane appeared, but these carried the 500lb bombs as normally provided in the kits.

To me, it is the RP Typhoon that is the classic appearance of the aircraft: I remember being somewhat disappointed when the Airfix kit only came with bombs. Quite why I didn't convert this feeling into a buy of the original Frog kit at the time is inexplicable!

[Chris Thomas]

what about the leading edge landing lights? would theses have been faired over for RP A/C (as per the example at hendon)

I have a 1/32 kit in the stash - which I had forggoten about till I saw this thread

Rogerd

None of the aircraft quoted above, except JX-I MN207, were RP-capable at that time (late 43, early 44) so they had landing lights in both leading edges.

MN207 would have had the RP mods incorporated on the production line and would presumably have had only one landinglight, on the port side. This is visible in the photo but unfortunately not the starboard side. However, 1 Sqn did not use RP on their Typhoons.

CT

Edited June 14, 2011 by Chris Thomas