Russian Cold War jets

[Simon Cornes]

Can someone give me a quick idiot guide about what is worth buying and what should be avoided? I picked up a KP Frogfoot and thought it would be okay after a bit of old fashioned modelling but then I was looking at a Zvezda Su-39 (?) and it looked very nice. I don't know how accurate it is though! I also have a Zvezda Su-24 which I like but then discovered the Revell boxing!

Truth is, I'm no expert on Russian stuff so some sort of guide from te MiG 21 onward would be really useful to avoid some foobars!

Thanks

Simon

[John Thompson]

Can someone give me a quick idiot guide about what is worth buying and what should be avoided? I picked up a KP Frogfoot and thought it would be okay after a bit of old fashioned modelling but then I was looking at a Zvezda Su-39 (?) and it looked very nice. I don't know how accurate it is though! I also have a Zvezda Su-24 which I like but then discovered the Revell boxing!

Truth is, I'm no expert on Russian stuff so some sort of guide from te MiG 21 onward would be really useful to avoid some foobars!

Thanks

Simon

Here's a useful site for the MiG-21 in 1/72; there was also quite a lengthy and detailed thread either here or on the ARC Jets forum not long ago about MiG-21 kits, as well as a proposal for a MiG-21 group build, which I believe starts in January, 2012:

http://fishbed.pagesperso-orange.fr/fishbe...ling/index.html

The basic conclusions seemed to be that the Fujimi kits look good, but have some inaccuracies. The Revell MiG-21F-13 is quite accurate. The Zvezda MiG-21bis is very good, but has incorrect wheels - a company in Hungary called SPS is in the process of creating a corrected set, along with wheel wells for this kit if you need resin parts; if not, (and I hope I don't get ridiculed for this!) the wheels from a 1/72 P-47 look reasonably similar to a correct MiG-21bis pattern!

Regarding the Su-25, there is still not a really accurate 1/72 kit, although (and despite its age) the KP one probably comes closest. The Zvezda Su-25 has an odd, too-shallow look to the nose in side view, to my eyes, at least. Not sure about the Su-39 - it may be a bit pointy as well. There's a Su-25UB that's been reboxed by various companies - Cooperativa, Maquette, etc., which should be avoided:

http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air...showtopic=81144

(And no, it has no connection with the KP Su-25K)

MiG-21 drawings:

http://www.airwar.ru/other/draw/mig21-2.html

Drawings of Su-25 and Su-39:

http://www.airwar.ru/other/draw/su25.html

http://www.airwar.ru/other/draw2/su25aiv.html

http://www.airwar.ru/other/draw2/su39aiv.html

I hope this is a start at least!

John

[upnorth]

The best Sukhoi Su-24 in 1/72 for accuaracy is the very hard to find, and rather expensive when you do, Streem kit. It's overengineered and a bear to get together, but it IS accurate. The only real downside is that it comes with no weapons at all.

The Zvezda/Revell one you mentioned in your post has it's origins in Italeri molds made prior to the fall of the Iron Curtain. The molds have also been issued by Dragon. Whether you buy Italeri, Dragon, Zvezda or Revell; you're getting the same base kit. Zvezda and Revell tossed in some nice extra weapons, but that's the only difference. In passing, it catches the look of the real plane but doesn't hold up to closer scrutiny.

I still am kind of angry at Zvezda for reissuing the old Italeri kit. The Streem kit was known to be hard to find and the Italeri molds known to be inaccurate; they had the golden opportunity to give us an accessible and accurate new tooling of the beast and they blew it.

Anyway.....

The Fujimi 1/72 MiG-21 kit has been mentioned. It is a solid kit that stands up well to time, but it's accuracy depends entirely on which variant is represented by the boxing you buy. The base kit is closest to a Bis version, though it has been reboxed as an MF and an R variant as well.

Over the past year or so, Quickboost has issued a series of resin correction bits for the Fujimi kit so you actually can get an MF or MF based version from the kit.

We're stil waiting for a truly definitive 1/72 Sukhoi Su-22 kit. The kits out there seem to be confused between being Su-17 or Su-22 but not being fully either one.

Edited June 6, 2011 by upnorth

[Giorgio N]

Building Soviet cold war types often means having to deal with short run types that can be hard to find are not easy to build.

A-Model has a good range of very interesting types: Su-9/11/15, Yak-25/27/28, Tu-128 and a few others. They all seem to be good accurate kits, but they are not the easiest to build, especially the oldest like the Yaks. More recent Amodel stuff is better.

If you like Sukhois, then cooperativa did a Su-9 that was not great but an easy build. Trumpeter has a Su-15 (more than one version actually) that is not as accurate as the Amodel one but is a good modern kit.

As said there's no really good Su-17, and its ancestor Su-7 is I believe only available from KP (or Kopro or mastercraft). Good in outline, it's quite old and this shows in the details, although its miles ahead of The only other I've seen, the ancient VEB kit.

If you like MiGs, apart from the already discussed MiG-21, the MiG-23 is available from a number of companies. I believe the best is the RV one recently issued. It's a short run but looks like a very good one, should not be too difficult. It's however quite expensive. Second best is probably the Zvezda/Italeri one. If you want a cheap (can be found for a fiver) one that looks like a MiG-23 if you look at it from a distance, academy copied the hasegawa kit adding recessed panel lines.

The MiG-25 is available from Condor and ICM. I don't know which is best, I have a Condor PD and looks good to me. Not tamigawa quality but a decent kit and should be accurate.

Don't know about the MiG-27, my understanding is that again there's no really good one with the Zvezda/Italeri kit being better.

[Simon Cornes]

Thanks very much gents. Sadly, Hasegawa don't come out very well then?! The information will be really useful because box art is so good these days that you need this kind of knowledge to really understand what you are getting. I don't intend to go mad with Russian hardware - having already done that wih most other bits of modern stuff but it will certainly inform my buying - if I do buy anything!

[Giorgio N]

Thanks very much gents. Sadly, Hasegawa don't come out very well then?! The information will be really useful because box art is so good these days that you need this kind of knowledge to really understand what you are getting. I don't intend to go mad with Russian hardware - having already done that wih most other bits of modern stuff but it will certainly inform my buying - if I do buy anything!

Hasegawa's cold war soviet jets are all pretty old and as such suffer from the lack of knowledge on correct shapes and details of the real planes. The mig-23/27 and the Mig-25 were all decent kits for their days, but today there's so much more information and the more recent kits are much better. Most of these are from eastern europe, where access to the real things and good documents is even easier.

[BushBrit66]

Thanks very much gents. Sadly, Hasegawa don't come out very well then?! The information will be really useful because box art is so good these days that you need this kind of knowledge to really understand what you are getting. I don't intend to go mad with Russian hardware - having already done that wih most other bits of modern stuff but it will certainly inform my buying - if I do buy anything!

In terms of accuracy(imho)

Mig 21 ZAvezda for later ones Revell for F-13, absolutly lovely

Mig 23/27 Zvezda/Italeri (a bit short but looks the part)

Mig 29 Italeri but Airfix is nice

Mig 25?

Mig 31 Zvezda /Revell

Su 17/ 22 Probably Bilek/Italeri

Su 25 I actually like the KP but perhaps mixing with Zvezda would be best

Su-27 Airfix

Su-27 UB Heller (BASED ON AIRFIX

su-39 Zvezda=really nice with a Neomega cockpit

hth

Sean

[upnorth]

I believe the best MiG-25 in 1/72 is currently the ICM kit.

[Flankerman]

In terms of accuracy(imho)

Su-27 Airfix

Su-27 UB Heller (BASED ON AIRFIX

Sean

Unfortunately, neither are currently in production (by Airfix & Heller that is).....

The Airfix Su-27 single seat & Heller Su-27UB two-seater moulds went to Alanger in the Ukraine.

The Su-27 passed to ICM - who have updated the Su-27 moulds and re-released it in both 'standard' camo and Russian Knights colours.

The ex-Heller two-seat Su-27UB has not re-appeared so far.....

You can still sometimes find the originals at model shows - but they are becoming increasingly rare.

Ken

[brighton rock]

Lets see some expanded aircraft types and look for the options;

All 1:72

Mig 15 Airfix or KP

Mig 17 KP

Mig 19 Bilek or KP

Mig 21 Bilek, Airfix, Matchbox, KP, Plastyk,

Mig 23 Airfix, Hasegawa, Academy

Mig 25 hasegawa

mig 27 hasegawa Academy

Mig 29 Airfix, Italeri, Revell

SU 7 KP

SU 17/22 Italeri, Kp,

SU 25 Italeri, Revell, KP

SU 27 Revell, Airfix

SU 24 Italeri

TU 22 Revell, Esci

[Giorgio N]

Lets see some expanded aircraft types and look for the options;

All 1:72

Mig 15 Airfix or KP. Best now is Hobbyboss, it's an "easy kit" but beats all the competition. The two-seater is also available

Mig 17 KP AZ made a short run kit that seems to be better than the old KP. It's expensive though

Mig 19 Bilek or KP Bilek for me

Mig 21 Bilek, Airfix, Matchbox, KP, Plastyk, Bilek for a PF, Zvezda for MF and bis, Revell for an F. The KP/mastercraft kits are ok, airfix and matchbox are old and inaccurate

Mig 23 Airfix, Hasegawa, Academy RV if you don't mind an expensive short run, alternatively Zvezda/italeri but only for the more recent versions

Mig 25 hasegawa Condor or ICM

mig 27 hasegawa Academy Zvezda/italeri

Mig 29 Airfix, Italeri, Revell airfix or italeri.. never understood which is actually better

SU 7 KP Only one around

SU 17/22 Italeri, Kp, None is great, probably Italeri for a 17/22M4, pantera/mastercraft/kp for the earlier versions

SU 25 Italeri, Revell, KP KP

SU 27 Revell, Airfix Airfix

SU 24 Italeri Streem (if you can find one..)

TU 22 Revell, Esci Same plastic in both, also reboxed by italeri. It's the only option unfortunately

Speaking of cold war Soviet bombers, Trumpeter has a series of Tu-16 and one of Tu-22. Not perfect but not too bad, the Tu-16 can be found for cheap. A-model did the M4, but this is a very expensive beast made part in fiberglass a part in short run injected plastic

[John Thompson]

SU 25 Italeri, Revell, KP

Forget about the Revell kit - it's more like a Su-25 prototype than a production aircraft. There was also a 1/72 Su-25 from Hobbycraft; it has a lot of faults and should also be avoided.The Italeri kit was originally released by Zvezda and may still be found under that name, then reissued by Italeri. KP still comes out on top.

John

[upnorth]

Mig 21 Bilek, Airfix, Matchbox, KP, Plastyk, Bilek for a PF, Zvezda for MF and bis, Revell for an F. The KP/mastercraft kits are ok, airfix and matchbox are old and inaccurate

Zvezda has a MiG-21 PF that is superior to the Bilek kit.

Between the KP and Mastercraft MF kits, go for the KP, the Mastercraft is a copy of it with quite overdone engraved panel lines.

Additionally, if you want a MiG-21 UB; KP, Aeroteam and Bilek all have done them, though I have no idea which is best.

You might also see an early F version in Academy boxing. I believe it's based on old and inaccurate Hasegawa moldings.

SU 17/22 Italeri, Kp, None is great, probably Italeri for a 17/22M4, pantera/mastercraft/kp for the earlier versions

Italeri Su-22 is Bilek moldings.

SU 25 Italeri, Revell, KP KP

Italeri Su-25 is Zvezda moldings.

TU 22 Revell, Esci Same plastic in both, also reboxed by italeri. It's the only option unfortunately

Tu-22 is too much of a mixed bag.

The Earliest Tu-22s ("Blinder") were only ever tooled by Esci and since been reissued by Italeri and Revell. Older and inaccurate moldings, but the only game in town for that end of the Tu-22 family.

The late end of the Tu-22 ("Backfire") Have been tooled by Esci (reissued by AMT and Italeri) and more recently by Trumpeter. By all accounts, Trumpeter is the way to go for Backfires.

Speaking of cold war Soviet bombers, Trumpeter has a series of Tu-16 and one of Tu-22. Not perfect but not too bad, the Tu-16 can be found for cheap. A-model did the M4, but this is a very expensive beast made part in fiberglass a part in short run injected plastic

To add onto Soviet bombers, if the Illyushin Il-28 "Beagle" attracts you, the Bilek kit is a bit of work but comes out quite nicely. Bilek also makes a trainer version of the Il-28 if you wanted a pair on your shelf.

Airfix made an Il-28 years ago, but it really isn't worth considering.

Edited June 10, 2011 by upnorth

[Guest squezzer]

Mig 15 Airfix or KP. Best now is Hobbyboss, it's an "easy kit" but beats all the competition. The two-seater is also available

Mig 17 KP AZ made a short run kit that seems to be better than the old KP. It's expensive though

Mig 19 Bilek or KP Bilek for me

Mig 21 Bilek, Airfix, Matchbox, KP, Plastyk, Bilek for a PF, Zvezda for MF and bis, Revell for an F. The KP/mastercraft kits are ok, airfix and matchbox are old and inaccurate

Mig 23 Airfix, Hasegawa, Academy RV if you don't mind an expensive short run, alternatively Zvezda/italeri but only for the more recent versions

Mig 25 hasegawa Condor or ICM

mig 27 hasegawa Academy Zvezda/italeri

Mig 29 Airfix, Italeri, Revell airfix or italeri.. never understood which is actually better

SU 7 KP Only one around

SU 17/22 Italeri, Kp, None is great, probably Italeri for a 17/22M4, pantera/mastercraft/kp for the earlier versions

SU 25 Italeri, Revell, KP KP

SU 27 Revell, Airfix Airfix

SU 24 Italeri Streem (if you can find one..)

TU 22 Revell, Esci Same plastic in both, also reboxed by italeri. It's the only option unfortunately

Speaking of cold war Soviet bombers, Trumpeter has a series of Tu-16 and one of Tu-22. Not perfect but not too bad, the Tu-16 can be found for cheap. A-model did the M4, but this is a very expensive beast made part in fiberglass a part in short run injected plastic

Mig 29 UB and Su27 UB by heller are said to be very good. I built the Mig 29 a while ago and, with a little of work on the details, it is a nice kit

[Flankerman]

Mig 15 Airfix or KP

The new Airfix MiG-15 looks about as much like a real MiG-15 as I look like Brad Pitt!

We share all the same parts (eyes, nose, mouth etc) - they're just not in the same order.

The Airfix MiG-15 is totally inaccurate.

SU 27 Revell, Airfix

The Revell Su-27 is a re-boxing of the Hasegawa kit - great kit but not so accurate model.

The Airfix Su-27 is a great model - but an awful kit.

It is(was) the most accurate Su-27 in any scale - but is no longer available - see my previous post.

My Flanker Models Survey is here. (it needs a bit of an update)

Ken

[Flankerman]

Speaking of cold war Soviet bombers, Trumpeter has a series of Tu-16 and one of Tu-22.

You need to differentiate between Tu-22 and Tu-22M - they are totally different machines.

The Tu-22 is the Blinder - and is kitted by Esci/Italeri/Revell - not very accurate but the only one around.

Tu-22M is the Backfire - and was kitted by Esci/Italeri but are they best forgotten about.

The definitive Backfire is kitted by Trumpeter as the Tu-22M2 (Backfire- and Tu-22M3 (Backfire-C).

Amodel do the Myasischev 3M & 3MD (Bison), M-50 (Bounder) and T4 (Sotka) in their 'Amonster' range.

Ken

[Giorgio N]

You need to differentiate between Tu-22 and Tu-22M - they are totally different machines.

My mistake, I wrote esci had done the Tu-22 and trumpeter had a family of Tu-22 but forgot to add the "M"..

I've seen the trumpeter Tu-22M built and it really looks great, it's one of those kit that I have to buy one day.

Regarding the Il-28, trumpeter has one too. I've been told it's little more than a copy of the Bilek kit, but haven't checked personally

[upnorth]

Regarding the Il-28, trumpeter has one too. I've been told it's little more than a copy of the Bilek kit, but haven't checked personally

That's pretty much the case. Trumpeter copied the Bilek molds and tooled a few extra vents and such into their copy so it better represented the Chinese built Harbin H-5 copy of the Il-28

[Simon Cornes]

This information is incredibly useful and, its sad I know, I am making up a spreadsheat including all of your collective opinions as an 'idiot guide' to take to shows!

What is the opinion re the ICM Flanker? I would have thought that it should be good? I am trying to get my mits on an Airfix Su-27B with an Italeri version as a reserve but should I go for ICM instead? Not in Flankerman's very impressive survey,

Cheers

Simon

[Flankerman]

What is the opinion re the ICM Flanker? I would have thought that it should be good?

Simon

The ICM Su-27 Flanker-B is the Airfix kit updated by ICM.

It has a new canopy (copied from the Hasegawa kit) - so it corrects the one major inaccuracy of the Airfix kit (the cockpit & canopy are too small)

They have also improved the weapons and pylons and a few other things - so it is the best Su-27 in 1:72 scale out there.

NeOmega also do a host of improvements for the ICM kit - which just about replaces everything that ICM provide !!!!

See here:- http://www.neomega-resin.com/sucorrdctions.jpg

So you can make a really accurate single-seat Su-27 - but it starts to get a bit expensive

Hasegawa have just released a newly-tooled kit of the naval Su-33 Flanker - it was thought to be very accurate - but some posters have started to find fault with it (shape of the spine and canopy)

Ken

Edited June 11, 2011 by Flankerman

[Simon Cornes]

Blooming Eck Ken, if its such a good kit, why are NeOmega selling half a fuselage to put it right?!!! On the face of it it makes more sense to get an Italeri kit as they only do the cockpit for that!! Or maybe the rest is beyond redemption!! What do you reckon is a realistic price for the ICM kit? I'm looking at one on E-Bay at the moment and I don't want to go green-eyed and spend a fortune if its the kind of kit you can pick up at shows for a more reasonable typical price!

Cheers

[Aardvark]

What is the opinion re the ICM Flanker?

Su-27 ICM

Review ICM of 1/72 Su-27 (Su-27 Flanker) http://scalemodels.ru/articles/1802-obzor-...27-Flanker.html

O!!!! This was epic battle!

Review ICM of 1/72 Su-27 (Su-27 Flanker) (#1802) - discussion http://scalemodels.ru/modules/forum/viewtopic_t_13298.html

on 36 pages!!!!!

Then was

The petition to the general director of company ICM (#1475) - discussion http://scalemodels.ru/modules/forum/viewtopic_t_16678.html

On 15 pages, ended with refusal of company ICM of galvanoplasty use in manufacture and transition to 3D-models..... And the model Su-27 has been laid off....

But Su-27 ICM best!

B.R. Serge

Edited June 12, 2011 by Aardvark

[Flankerman]

Blooming Eck Ken, if its such a good kit, why are NeOmega selling half a fuselage to put it right?!!!

Although it's the best there is in terms of accuracy - it can be improved - which is what NeOmega tries to do.

The main failing of the Airfix kit was always the too-small cockpit & canopy.

Years ago NeOmega made a complete cockpit interior - designed to fit the Italeri Flanker (it would not fit the Airfix kit).

In order to make it fit the new ICM kit, NeOmega have had to do a complete front fuselage - at least that's my opinion.

It depends how anal you want to be - having made dozens of Flankers based on the Airfix kit I am quite happy with it.

I was hoping that the ICM upgrade would be the ultimate Su-27 in 1:72 scale - but sadly it isn't - but at least it corrected some of the errors in the Airfix kit.

On the face of it it makes more sense to get an Italeri kit as they only do the cockpit for that!! Or maybe the rest is beyond redemption!!

The Italieri Su-27 has lots of good detail - including the correct-sized cockpit - but it is let down by other major outline errors - mainly the intakes which are way too shallow.

There are more comments on my Flanker Kits Survey.

What do you reckon is a realistic price for the ICM kit? I'm looking at one on E-Bay at the moment and I don't want to go green-eyed and spend a fortune if its the kind of kit you can pick up at shows for a more reasonable typical price!

Cheers

Hannants have the ICM Su-27 (albeit in Russian Knights markings) - they are showing it as £22.99

You can still get the Airfix kit at shows - for about a tenner.

Ken

[Flankerman]

And the model Su-27 has been laid off....

But Su-27 ICM best!

B.R. Serge

Serge,

Thanks for those links - but it is difficult to read them using the Google translations

Can you please sum up what is the opinion of Russian modellers regarding the ICM Su-27 ??

Also - when you say "And the model Su-27 has been laid off" - does that mean that ICM are no longer making it ????

Do you know if ICM have the Heller Su-27UB moulds ???

Cheers

Please, please, please can someone make an accurate, affordable kit of the Su-27 in 1:72 scale - how difficult can it be ???

Ken

[Aardvark]

Hi,Ken!

Thanks for those links - but it is difficult to read them using the Google translations

Can you please sum up what is the opinion of Russian modellers regarding the ICM Su-27 ??????

We don't have common opinion.

Someone speaks that will descend and so!

Someone isn't present!. Someone speaks that by means of sets from NeOmega it is possible to receive normal model, and someone speaks as sets from NeOmega have errors.

Problem in that that many modellers ex-Soviet Union middle age (and I including) have passed through mugs of the big aircraft modeling in school therefore we have hypertrophied requirements to accuracy.

(+ / - 1 mm, all execution on a place! )

Therefore weren't defined what to consider yet as exact drawings on Su-27.

In general plans all tell that V.Glazkov drawings from "to Aircraft and Time" are true..... But a devil as it is known in details.

Su-27: as it is as a first approximation. http://forums.airforce.ru/showthread.php?t=2158

I am more developed I will write later.... English after all too not my native language.

Also - when you say "And the model Su-27 has been laid off" - does that mean that ICM are no longer making it ????

Yes!

Foxbot live in Kiev.

Machine translate his post:

ICM 2011 http://scalemodels.ru/modules/forum/viewto..._start_120.html

Still I am unexpected today for myself have learned that the set of arms "Air-surface" prepared specially for shock variants of Su-27. In particular, there were plans concerning Su-30MKK . But because of history with Su-27 management ICM has refused this idea. So rockets are, and the model isn't present.

By the way, and Su-27 is laid off now. So the sold circulation is all. So, you look, it becomes fast too a curiosity.

Post by Jyri Niknorov aka niknorov (manager ICM)

ICM 2011 http://scalemodels.ru/modules/forum/viewto...326.html#459326

Su-27 - The decision idle time - won't be better than it let in general, than... To have such (((

B.R. Serge

Edited June 12, 2011 by Aardvark