FW 190 A-9 options?

[rowmk9]

I realised last night that building a 1/48 Fw190 A-9 (or any other scale for that matter) without scratchbuilding is actually not easy. I searched hannants for conversion sets but found none. Granted the differences between an A-8 and the A-9 are subtle but they are there.

Changes needed:

1) 30mm increase in length of oil tank in the nose - leading to an ever so slightly longer nose.

2) 14 blade cooling fan for the engine (though one of my sources suggests 12 blade fans were retrofitted to some A-9's)

3) broad bladed wooden prop (though many A-9's were built with the standard one, oddly enough)

To me this would mean a very simple conversion set and I was suprised to find none available, especially as the production of A-9's topped 900 machines, a not inconsiderable amount. It does make me wonder why there are a few injection moulded kits of Ta152C's, a machine that barely got past the drawing board but none for this much more prevalent aircraft.

Also there are suggestions that some A-9's were fitted with the Ta152 wooden tail, though I've yet to see any photographic proof of that. I believe the planned A-10 was to be fitted with it. In any case, how cool would it be to model a late Anton with that tail unit?

So I put it to you guys, is there anything available for this variant of the 190? Or will I have to struggle and hodge-podge my own conversion?

Edited May 17, 2011 by rowmk9

[rowmk9]

Actually, in response to my own question, I see Tamiya have the more expensive F-8/F-9 boxing of the 190 which includes the 14 bladed cooling fan. Not sure if it addresses the oil tank size though...

Edit: And eduard 190's contain both types of prop in their A-8 boxing too.

It's really just the oil tank that really needs changing....

Edited May 17, 2011 by rowmk9

[Heraldcoupe]

The 14 blade fan is included as an unused part with the Dragon Fw-190 in several incarnations. Likewise the broader prop blades.

The deeper oil tank is included as an optional part in the same company's BMW engined Ju-88s, though it would need to be grafted onto the engine front face of the Fw-190, the engines in the two kits have a different breakdown of parts.

I have the Fw-190 parts spare, looking for the 12 blade fan (and earlier prop I think) to finish off a vacform Bv-141. If you fancy a swap, let me know, unfortunately I can't help with the oil tank as I used those parts on my Mistel,

Cheers,

Bill.

[rowmk9]

How very kind of you bill! I've got a spare prop and 12 bladed fan from a Tamiya A-8 kit. They have some thin undercoat colour on them that could either be painted straight over or stripped. In any case they're yours for free if you want to swap.

I've yet to purchase my 'base' A-8 kit and I'll probably go for Eduard. If you can wait a week longer you could have the spare parts from that instead?

If you're still interested then PM me

Edited May 17, 2011 by rowmk9

[_H_]

Hi Rowan, I was only thinking about the A-9 the other day and pondering building one. It seems the schemes could be the hardest part as identifying a true 9 seems difficult.

Howard

[FalkeEins]

..yep, but there a few A-9s illustrated in Rodeike's book, JG 301 machines IIRC

[rowmk9]

Indeed it is difficult to tell. I've been looking at some references and to be honest I've no idea how they are telling some of the A-8's and A-9's apart, but thats likely my untrained eye more than anything else! It just strikes me as odd that modelling wise the A-9 has never really been catered for, it has been overlooked by the more popular D-9 and Ta152 series.

I quite fancy the idea of a short nosed 190 with a Ta152 tail but one picture of an A-9 that suggests it had this tail hardly shows any of the tail unit. It's a teasing picture.

The reference for the pic is, Janowicz, Focke-Wulf FW 190 Vol. II (Lubin: Kagero, 2004) 74.

The aircraft is coded 'white 47' which is quite interesting too.

But I digress, my real issue is finding out how to model the different nose. Or could I leave it and still sleep at night? possibly not...

[_H_]

White 47? Although I don't know the picture you are talking about It sounds like the aircraft is part of a training staffel.

I'd love to see the pic if you can Rowan?

Howard

[rowmk9]

The high number would suggest a training staffel. I'll PM you the pic because I probably shouldn't post copyrighted materiel on BM.

Edited May 17, 2011 by rowmk9

[Milos Gazdic]

I know it's been just about over 10 years since initial discussion - but since I stumbled upon this topic let me say regarding this:
 

Quote

1) 30mm increase in length of oil tank in the nose - leading to an ever so slightly longer nose.

30mm in 1/72 scale is 0.4mm in 1/48 = 0.6mm. Dimension like this can be added by simply not squeezing the oil tank fully into cowling ring when building a kit or overcoating the oil tank with 1-2 layers of some liquid / sprayable putty.

[SafetyDad]

58 minutes ago, Milos Gazdic said:

I know it's been just about over 10 years since initial discussion - but since I stumbled upon this topic let me say regarding this:
 

30mm in 1/72 scale is 0.4mm in 1/48 = 0.6mm. Dimension like this can be added by simply not squeezing the oil tank fully into cowling ring when building a kit or overcoating the oil tank with 1-2 layers of some liquid / sprayable putty.

 

I would wholeheartedly agree. As the OP says, telling A8s and A9s apart in photos is not easy - if the oil cooler was that obvious, then we'd have no problems differentiating with the real airframe!

I know it's a 10 year old thread, but, for the sake of completeness, going through the other changes we find:

 

14 bladed cooling fan - apparently these did not give the additional cooling hoped for, in fact they were less efficient than the 12 bladed version, so some texts suggest the 12 bladed fans were retrofitted. (When did the ground crew get time for this?). Here's a comparison picture taken at Flensburg in 1945 after the surrender. How many A9s can you see?

 

Source is (I believe) the Harleyford publication Fw190 a Famous Fighter.

 

The broader prop is perhaps an easier identifier (but not always easy to spot depending upon the angle of the picture). As here

 

 

Not sure about the source of this pic, so very happy to remove if anyone is unhappy about my posting it - posted for the purpose of research/discussion.

 

Finally, I've read that all A9s had black fuselage outline Balkenkreuz (as above), BUT so did quite a few A8s so this needs care and caution too. 

The Wk Nr  would be the best identifier, but sometimes we don't have that (again as above). 

 

I know, 10 years on, but I still HTH

 

SD

[gingerbob]

For the benefit of the unenlightened, does anyone have an image that neatly shows the difference between the oil rings? (photo preferred to drawing)

[SafetyDad]

5 minutes ago, gingerbob said:

For the benefit of the unenlightened, does anyone have an image that neatly shows the difference between the oil rings? (photo preferred to drawing)

I'll have a look 

 

SD

[nicholas mayhew]

On 5/17/2011 at 12:30 PM, rowmk9 said:

I realised last night that building a 1/48 Fw190 A-9 (or any other scale for that matter) without scratchbuilding is actually not easy.

 

*any other scale apart from 1/32 I take it you meant to say?

 

the items you list are all available from EagleEditions and / or Eduard as resin accessories

 

hth

 

N

[SafetyDad]

Well @gingerbob, that's been an interesting exercise!

The clearest pictures I could easily lay hands on are here:

 

 

This first is uncaptioned with regards to its sub-type in its original source , but its a nice clear side-on picture. It was taken at the AGO works in Oschersleben after capture in 1945. I have seen the 190s there captioned as A9s in other publications, (but would appreciate the input of any other BMers with additional information?).  So, armoured cooler.

 

 

 

The second picture shows an A6 - this should have the smaller cooler, rather than the armoured version.

 

 

 

Source: Campbell J (1975) Fw190 in Action Squadron Signal Carrolton TX

 

Can I see the difference?

I'm not sure I can. 

If my information is correct, it seems that there is only a minute difference between the two coolers. Not worth fussing over, perhaps worth considering in the very largest scales? (Perhaps not even then).

 

This seems to be one of those airframe differences that is much discussed, but in practice almost unnoticeable. 

 

Hope this helps

 

SD

[Bozothenutter]

Just an extra coat or two of primer should do it....

[G.R.Morrison]

Regarding the photo "taken at the AGO works in Oscher{s}leben after capture in 1945. I have seen the 190s there captioned as A9s in other publications, (but would appreciate the input of any other BMers with additional information?)."

  

These were in the 7394xx series (Werknummern visible on others photographed here), and were A-8s. 

  

The A-9 became operational in late August / Sept. 1944.  Their Werknummer ranges included 730xxx, 205xxx, 980xxx, 206xxx, 380xxx and 202xxx. ('Why not list them in numerical order?' -- Because I listed them in the sequence in which they begin to show up.) 

Without a visible, or known Werknummer, it's hard to distinguish between an A-8 and an A-9.  The broad wooden prop was not always used on A-9s and F-9s. 

  

GRM

 

Edited November 18, 2021 by G.R.Morrison
weird strike-through text needed fixing.

[FinnAndersen]

7 hours ago, nicholas mayhew said:

 

...the items you list are all available from EagleEditions and / or Eduard as resin accessories...

Did you notice the date when the original post was made?

 

/Finn

[SafetyDad]

1 hour ago, G.R.Morrison said:

Regarding the photo "taken at the AGO works in Oscher{s}leben after capture in 1945. I have seen the 190s there captioned as A9s in other publications, (but would appreciate the input of any other BMers with additional information?)."

  

These were in the 7394xx series (Werknummern visible on others photographed here), and were A-8s. 

  

The A-9 became operational in late August / Sept. 1944.  Their Werknummer ranges included 730xxx, 205xxx, 980xxx, 206xxx, 380xxx and 202xxx. ('Why not list them in numerical order?' -- Because I listed them in the sequence in which they begin to show up.) 

Without a visible, or known Werknummer, it's hard to distinguish between an A-8 and an A-9.  The broad wooden prop was not always used on A-9s and F-9s. 

  

GRM

 

Thanks @G.R.Morrison that,s very helpful. the W Nr info helps too.

As they are A-8s, this probably explains why the oil coolers look similar!

 

Coat time methinks 

SD 

[nicholas mayhew]

13 hours ago, FinnAndersen said:

Did you notice the date when the original post was made?

 

/Finn

 

not until i had typed it lol

fwiw the EagleEditions items would have been available at the time of original posting I think?

anyway, yes i did have a chuckle to myself!

 

BUT if the post being resurrected has prompted GRM to chime in, that's definitely a good thing

 

🙂

[Werdna]

12 hours ago, SafetyDad said:

As they are A-8s, this probably explains why the oil coolers look similar!

 

Hi SD - are we talking about the oil cooler itself, or the armoured ring in front of it?  I was under the impression that the A-9 had increased armour protection on the forward ring (hence the larger size), but not necessarily a larger oil cooler..?

[SafetyDad]

1 hour ago, Werdna said:

 

Hi SD - are we talking about the oil cooler itself, or the armoured ring in front of it?  I was under the impression that the A-9 had increased armour protection on the forward ring (hence the larger size), but not necessarily a larger oil cooler..?

 

You are quite correct I think - it's the armoured ring in front that is slightly bigger. I'm being sloppy with my nouns!

 

SD

[Bozothenutter]

9 hours ago, SafetyDad said:

 

You are quite correct I think - it's the armoured ring in front that is slightly bigger. I'm being sloppy with my nouns!

 

SD

We'll have noun of that now!

[Ingo Ritz]

 

I believe this is a Fw 190 F-9, which was based on the A-9 and used the same engine.

[G.R.Morrison]

Mr. Ritz,

 

Yes, that was Fw 190F-9  WNr.440563 of the 3./SG 2, at Klagenfurt.

 

GRM