Tempest EJ693, Medium Sea grey squadron codes

[Troy Smith]

Hi

having been doing some Tempest research, I finally noticed this interesting detail, that Tempest EJ693, which is an unrestored fuselage, has it's squadron codes in medium sea grey, instead of the usual sky.



see http://www.hawkertempest.se/EJ693.htm
for airframe history, with a profile showing it with sky codes though!

and http://www.hawkertempest.se/WalkArounds.htm for more detail pics.

A 486 sq quirk? The added underfuselage only AEAF stripes are of note too.

Any other documented exaples of MSG codes this late on?

hope of interest.
cheers
T

Edited August 26, 2015 by Troy Smith

[Chris Thomas]

Oh No they are not! I have had the chance to examine this relic at close quarters several times over the last 20 years and I can assure you that the code letters are Sky. Please don't subject us to another 'Ive seen this unusual colour in a copy of someone-else's-photo-taken-in-unknown-lighting-on-umknown-film-scanned-in-an-unknown-way-and-displayed-on-my-monitor-etc thread.

CT

[The Hooded Claw]

Where is it?

Never seen it on display anywhere?

THC

[Edgar]

It's here, at Booker, being rebuilt for Kermit Weekes, and it's no good dashing around to have a look, since the fuselage has now been stripped..

Edgar

Edited May 14, 2011 by Edgar

[Troy Smith]

Oh No they are not! I have had the chance to examine this relic at close quarters several times over the last 20 years and I can assure you that the code letters are Sky. Please don't subject us to another 'Ive seen this unusual colour in a copy of someone-else's-photo-taken-in-unknown-lighting-on-umknown-film-scanned-in-an-unknown-way-and-displayed-on-my-monitor-etc thread.

CT

Hi Chris

OK, thanks for the correction.

As you have seen the plane and are an expert in this field I trust your statements on this, but it is interesting how different the code letters appear to the fuselage band, and how close they appear to the undersurfaces in two different sets of photos on the site, perhaps you can see how my mistake was made.

Is difference in apperance due to factory (or MU) applied sky band and squadron applied code letters perhaps? Was there a discernable difference in person? Or just normal variations in the sky colour?

Would the underfuselage AEAF stripes have been squadron applied too?

I'm sure there are other members here who would be interested in the above questions as well.

best wishes

Troy

Edited May 14, 2011 by Troy Smith

[Edgar]

Tail bands were painted by the factory, as was the serial no. Squadron codes were painted by the Squadron, and, provided that they complied with set dimensions, could be (almost) any design, which is why talking about "RAF fonts" is a complete waste of time. By the time EJ693 was built, Hawker were using the same synthetic paints that Supermarine had started in 1942, but there's no guarantee that the Squadron artist was using the same paint; he could, quite easily, have still been using the original cellulose, which was also smooth (Sky Type "S," remember.) The stripes could have been applied by the Squadron, or even at an M.U., if the aircraft was not delivered direct to the Squadron.

Edgar

[Chris Thomas]

Is difference in apperance due to factory (or MU) applied sky band and squadron applied code letters perhaps? Was there a discernable difference in person? Or just normal variations in the sky colour?

Would the underfuselage AEAF stripes have been squadron applied too?

I'm sure there are other members here who would be interested in the above questions as well.

Troy

The Sky band would have been factory applied and the unit codes would have been applied by the unit (or its servicing echelon), at Eindhoven in this case. That could be a reason for the difference as well as the years of fading and grime that are evident.

EJ693 joined 486 Sqn at the beginning of Sept 44, when the unit was still with ADGB, ie. before it joined 2ndTAF. It was a time when the reduction of AEAF stripes to fuselage undersides only had recently been ordered. These stripes were probably applied to EJ693 by 3501 SU which was ADGB's equivalent to the 2nd TAFs GSUs. These units were, among other thing, tasked with preparing aircraft for operational service and maintaining a pool ready for issue.

The interesting thing is that the stripes on EJ693 were painted on (ie. not distemper like the original stripes). This may have been so because the stripes were seen as more permanent than the originals or that paint created less drag than distemper - which had found to be undesirable during the campaign against the V-1s.

CT

[Jon Kunac-Tabinor]

Hi Chaps - this is most interesting. So I could, for instance, apply a sky tail band using whatever brand of model paint, and not worry if the decal sky codes dont match?

Cheers

Jonners

[Chris Thomas]

Hi Chaps - this is most interesting. So I could, for instance, apply a sky tail band using whatever brand of model paint, and not worry if the decal sky codes dont match?

Cheers

Jonners

You might even be more accurate to do so ...

CT

[Jon Kunac-Tabinor]

You might even be more accurate to do so ...

CT

amazing - I've gone through my modelling life being paranoid about the sky matching! Even to the extent of touching up codes to match the painted band

Cheers

Jonners

[JohnT]

You might even be more accurate to do so ...

CT

Thats very useful to know - glad I learned this. Thanks Chris

[keefr22]

amazing - I've gone through my modelling life being paranoid about the sky matching! Even to the extent of touching up codes to match the painted band

Cheers

Jonners

I'm glad I'm not the only one who does (or is it now did??!!) that Jonners!! What a relief that that tidbit of info has surfaced!!

Keef

[Fernando]

Hi, Jonners and all,

Given that, no matter how hard you tried (unless you are painting the codes with masks), codes and tailband (and spinner, in that case) never match, I guess we are all in the godsend. I am still comfortable if looking for a "good match" for Sky in the code decals; for sure it will be enough different from the "good match" in the paint to show the difference in application. What I see next is people intentionally dis-matching bands and codes... but the effect will be too harsh!

Fernando

PD: the codes in Eduard's Tempests are noticeably greyish, lighter even than MSG. May be they took that fuselage as a model? One of its decal choices was even a "SA-" marked aircraft, but I cannot be sure it is the same.

Edited May 16, 2011 by Fernando

[Chris Thomas]

... the codes in Eduard's Tempests are noticeably greyish, lighter even than MSG. May be they took that fuselage as a model? One of its decal choices was even a "SA-" marked aircraft, but I cannot be sure it is the same.

If they went to those lengths ... its a pity they did not model the tail fin on EJ693 ...

CT

[Troy Smith]

If they went to those lengths ... its a pity they did not model the tail fin on EJ693 ...

CT

Glad to at least my incorrect assumption has been of use in turning up a useful modelling detail, thanks to Chris and Edgar fund of knowledge.

As for Eduard Tempest, and they should have looked at EJ693 Chris perhaps means this shot.....

certainly I used it for a guide to remodelling the fin....

for anyone who is going to do the kit, the trick is the fin fillet is essentially triangular in section, narrow at the front and the base of the triangle at full fin width, the first vertical panel line of the fin, with flat sides, shown well above where fin meets fuselage.

The fillet was added to the earlier typhoon like tail, and is very simple. But the above is the best shot I found showing this.

Don't forget to add plastic card backing inside the fin before you start thinning, I used 30 thou on each side. a

I have not gone through the kit plastic but it's pretty thin now!

The old 1/72 Heller kit catches this detail well.

HTH

T

Edited March 7, 2012 by Troy Smith