Rob de Bie Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 Agreed, Hasegawa. The more I learn about the three main 104 models in 1/72 scale (Hasegawa, Revell, Esci/Italeri), the more I prefer the Hasegawa kit. Except for the rivets on the rear fuselage, and the four-part fuselage, that is very easy to assemble in a crooked shape. Rob 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sroubos Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 Another vote for the Hasegawa. Can be gotten quite cheaply directly from Japan through various sources. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 Unfortunately in these last ten years little has changed on the 1/72 F-104 front, the available kits are still the same and the relative qualities still stand. What has changed is that the revell kit has become very easily available and that in the mentime the quality of the decals in the Hasegawa kits have improved by a good margin, while the Japanese moulds start showing some signs of their age. Even so, the hasegawa kit still remains less tricky to build than the Revell kit. One other thing that has changed over these years is my perspective on the various kits, of which I've learnt to better understand strengths and weaknesses.. that means I still rate the Hasegawa kit as the best as while I've found things less than ideal in this kit I've also found other less than ideal things in the other two (Revell and Italeri/Esci... no other kit is IMHO worth bothering with). Also means that I've identified aspects of the Hasegawa kit that should be improved on and discovered that a "perfect" F-104 model would need some work if starting from this kit. Still, that perfect model would require even more work if starting from the others.... One of the results of this change in perspective is that today I rate the Esci/Italeri kit as potentially a very good kit with only one serious problem: the canopy is seriously oversized and this is very noticeable. There are other issues with this kit, among them that a true G can not be built from the box as lacks the bulged main wheel well doors, the tip tanks that are too small and wrongly positioned and the wrong shape of the wing pylon. The same kit however features a very good wing and a proper representation of the gun gas purge vents under the fuselage, that are missing in the Revell and Hasegawa kits 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sroubos Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 I agree the Hasegawa, Esci and Revell tools are definitely the way to go, either of those will be a good basis. The Airfix and Matchbox kits still look like a 104 though. Special negative mention for the Academy kit, that thing is an abomination. It's simply the worst kit I've ever seen, just terrible to behold. Not a single aspect of it looks like a 104. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2996 Victor Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 Many thanks @RidgeRunner, @Rob de Bie, @sroubos and @Giorgio N for your thoughts. Interesting that so little has changed in the intervening time. So it would be fair to say that the consensus is that the best available is the Hasegawa kit, even though it too has it's issues. It also sounds like all the available kits are a bit of a Curate's Egg, all good in parts and each one better than the others in different areas. Very much a case of, "You pays your money and takes your choice", then! Many thanks and kind regards, Mark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 18 minutes ago, 2996 Victor said: o it would be fair to say that the consensus is that the best available is the Hasegawa kit, even though it too has it's issues. Yes, yes and thrice yes . Manufacturers seem to have sidelined the Starfighter in 1/72 despite it being a core machine within NATO and other air arms globally. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 Mark, yes, your summary is pretty correct. I should also add that the "issues" with the hasegawa kit are things that may bother the F-104 enthusiasts like me and @RidgeRunnerbut are likely to not bother 90% of modellers, maybe with the exception of the heavy rivets on the rear fuselage. My main concerns with this kit are the wrong shape of certain panel lines, the lack of some others and of features like the gun vents. One thing that unfortunately is not evident here in Europe is that the Hasegawa F-104 kits are sold in Japan as cheap kits, selling in the £8-10 range. This is likely a reason why they are simplified in some aspects. Should you want to try and build a model with all the parts done right, I can elaborate further on these 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2996 Victor Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 2 minutes ago, RidgeRunner said: Yes, yes and thrice yes . 4 minutes ago, RidgeRunner said: Manufacturers seem to have sidelined the Starfighter in 1/72 despite it being a core machine within NATO and other air arms globally. Strange! It's a fairly ubiquitous aircraft and has such a distinctive outline, you'd think manufacturers would be falling over themselves! Thanks, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 3 minutes ago, 2996 Victor said: Strange! It's a fairly ubiquitous aircraft and has such a distinctive outline, you'd think manufacturers would be falling over themselves! Exactly! You can see my interest in my signature On F-104 modelling Giorgio @Giorgio N is your man!!!!!! Martin 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2996 Victor Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 6 minutes ago, Giorgio N said: Mark, yes, your summary is pretty correct. I should also add that the "issues" with the hasegawa kit are things that may bother the F-104 enthusiasts like me and @RidgeRunnerbut are likely to not bother 90% of modellers, maybe with the exception of the heavy rivets on the rear fuselage. My main concerns with this kit are the wrong shape of certain panel lines, the lack of some others and of features like the gun vents. One thing that unfortunately is not evident here in Europe is that the Hasegawa F-104 kits are sold in Japan as cheap kits, selling in the £8-10 range. This is likely a reason why they are simplified in some aspects. Should you want to try and build a model with all the parts done right, I can elaborate further on these Thanks, Giorgio, that's great to know! I hadn't realised that Hasegawa kits were simplified for "home market" sales. If it isn't too much bother, I'd be very interested to learn what needs to be corrected to get the Hasegawa kit right, but I really wouldn't want to put you to any trouble. With kind regards, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 I'll just add my few pennies worth before Giorgio settles down and responds. From my point of view, as a minimum, be aware of: 1. Almost all kits - and I'll talking the only scale that God intended (1/72) - have incorrect canopies. The Italeri/Esci is over blown, the Academy is just wrong! Forget Matchbox. The Heller is not 1/72. 2. The rear end of the Hasegawa is over rivetted 3. The Italeri/Esci has a more detailed wing 4. As Giorgio has said, watch out for gun and fairing inaccuracies 5. Check what it is you intend to build as things like wheels, jet pipes, gun ports, pylons are different. For example, early Starfighters had the underwing pylon at 90 degrees to the wing. Later they were modified and all were 90 degrees to the ground Giorgio knows much more!!!! My A-model build: Martin 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 Mark, I should have probably chosen my words better... don't expect a simplified kit, it is a very complete kit, with raised instrument panel and consolles details, seats in 4 parts, several bits for the landing gear and a decal sheet with almost every possible stencil included... when I mean simplified I mean that compared to their own 1/48 kits, they seem to have taken shortcuts in the representation of certain areas. It is still a very good kit overall, more so considering that was first issued 32 year ago... No bother at all in going in depth in the various issues I've identified, I'll post a list later based on my experience, covering both accuracy and fit details. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tempestfan Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 9 hours ago, sroubos said: Special negative mention for the Academy kit, that thing is an abomination. It's simply the worst kit I've ever seen, just terrible to behold. Not a single aspect of it looks like a 104. Then you should avoid the original Hasegawa kit on which the Academy is based like hell 😉 8 hours ago, 2996 Victor said: Strange! It's a fairly ubiquitous aircraft and has such a distinctive outline, you'd think manufacturers would be falling over themselves! I see none of the "legacy" manufacturers doing one - Revell has a fairly recent kit and do not appear to be investing in 1/72 at all ATM, Monogram as such is history, Italeri has the Esci mould which is by far the oldest but apparently still able to compete, Hasegawa has a kit that is fairly old now but still considered at the upper end, so none of them is likely to spend money on a new tool. The best bet would probably be Eduard, alternatively I could imagine Airfix doing one in their long-term fossilic moulds replacement programme. A well planned mould could keep them happy for some time. Incidentally, someone asked upthread if Revell reboxed someone else's kit or similar - they had at least the Esci C (probably the G, too) around 1980. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modelldoc Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 Take your own look: Airfix: https://www.flickr.com/photos/21603181@N08/16131418712/in/photolist-KJnq5r-qztJLQ Matchbox: https://www.flickr.com/photos/21603181@N08/5602794897/in/photolist-9x6MJ2 Revell: https://www.flickr.com/photos/21603181@N08/28702812201/in/photolist-KJnq5r-qztJLQ modelldoc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hook Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 10 hours ago, modelldoc said: Take your own look: That's not even a fair fight. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 To be clear, it is the Hasegawa G/S kit that deserves the praise and not, as said above, the earlier one that was also issued by Frog. Martin 11 hours ago, modelldoc said: Take your own look: Airfix: https://www.flickr.com/photos/21603181@N08/16131418712/in/photolist-KJnq5r-qztJLQ Matchbox: https://www.flickr.com/photos/21603181@N08/5602794897/in/photolist-9x6MJ2 Revell: https://www.flickr.com/photos/21603181@N08/28702812201/in/photolist-KJnq5r-qztJLQ modelldoc No, no and no! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2996 Victor Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 Dear All, many, many thanks for your replies, and apologies for not having responded sooner! As an F-104 novice, it can be difficult to know which way to go, so all this info is greatly and gratefully appreciated. 22 hours ago, RidgeRunner said: I'll just add my few pennies worth before Giorgio settles down and responds. From my point of view, as a minimum, be aware of: 1. Almost all kits - and I'll talking the only scale that God intended (1/72) - have incorrect canopies. The Italeri/Esci is over blown, the Academy is just wrong! Forget Matchbox. The Heller is not 1/72. 2. The rear end of the Hasegawa is over rivetted 3. The Italeri/Esci has a more detailed wing 4. As Giorgio has said, watch out for gun and fairing inaccuracies 5. Check what it is you intend to build as things like wheels, jet pipes, gun ports, pylons are different. For example, early Starfighters had the underwing pylon at 90 degrees to the wing. Later they were modified and all were 90 degrees to the ground Giorgio knows much more!!!! My A-model build: Martin Martin, thanks for this run-down and the link to your own build, at which I've had a quick look and may I say what a fantastic beast! How difficult was it to cross-kit the Hasegawa and Italeri parts? I'm afraid I haven't had the opportunity for a full read through, so may have missed some things! 22 hours ago, Giorgio N said: Mark, I should have probably chosen my words better... don't expect a simplified kit, it is a very complete kit, with raised instrument panel and consolles details, seats in 4 parts, several bits for the landing gear and a decal sheet with almost every possible stencil included... when I mean simplified I mean that compared to their own 1/48 kits, they seem to have taken shortcuts in the representation of certain areas. It is still a very good kit overall, more so considering that was first issued 32 year ago... No bother at all in going in depth in the various issues I've identified, I'll post a list later based on my experience, covering both accuracy and fit details. Giorgio, I suspect it was me being a bit dim! Its good to know that Hasegawa is the best in the field: the next task is to track one down at a reasonable cost! Martin's build has shown that cross-kitting can result in a more accurate model, and this is something I might consider. But as mentioned, I'm a novice in these matters and so knowing how far to travel down the road of accuracy is a big question. If at some point you could post a list of accuracy and fit details, I'm sure it would be use not only to myself but to others as well. 14 hours ago, tempestfan said: Then you should avoid the original Hasegawa kit on which the Academy is based like hell 😉 I see none of the "legacy" manufacturers doing one - Revell has a fairly recent kit and do not appear to be investing in 1/72 at all ATM, Monogram as such is history, Italeri has the Esci mould which is by far the oldest but apparently still able to compete, Hasegawa has a kit that is fairly old now but still considered at the upper end, so none of them is likely to spend money on a new tool. The best bet would probably be Eduard, alternatively I could imagine Airfix doing one in their long-term fossilic moulds replacement programme. A well planned mould could keep them happy for some time. Incidentally, someone asked upthread if Revell reboxed someone else's kit or similar - they had at least the Esci C (probably the G, too) around 1980. TF, it'd be nice to think one of the current manufacturers would step up and bring out a new-mould that's accurate! You may be right about Airfix, but I wonder if Arma Hobby could be persuaded..... Lastly (for now!), Martin mentions that most if not all the 1/72 scale kits have incorrect canopies, so does anyone supply a vacform to the correct shape? On an internet trawl, I can't spot any! Many, many thanks once again, and kind regards, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hook Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 The RoG kit has its merits as well - in the F-104C incarnation, it is the only kit with the undernose and aft fuselage RWR thingies (used by late CF-104/CF-104D as well), and correct A through F style wheels. Cheers, Andre 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 33 minutes ago, 2996 Victor said: How difficult was it to cross-kit the Hasegawa and Italeri parts? It was easy, mate . I will write up more a little later Martin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob de Bie Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, 2996 Victor said: thanks for this run-down and the link to your own build, at which I've had a quick look and may I say what a fantastic beast! How difficult was it to cross-kit the Hasegawa and Italeri parts? I'm afraid I haven't had the opportunity for a full read through, so may have missed some things! I'm not sure which cross-kitting aspect you're after, but I combined a Hasegawa F-104G fuselage with the tail section of the Esci/Italeri F-104C. Very little sanding is required to make it fit. The top photo shows bare plastic, the bottom one with MRP paint. I might also use the Esci/Italeri wings, they really look a lot nicer. Rob Edited February 17, 2021 by Rob de Bie 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 The trick is now to find an Esci/Italeri kit!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2996 Victor Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 2 hours ago, Rob de Bie said: I'm not sure which cross-kitting aspect you're after, but I combined a Hasegawa F-104G fuselage with the tail section of the Esci/Italeri F-104C. Very little sanding is required to make it fit. The top photo shows bare plastic, the bottom one with MRP paint. I might also use the Esci/Italeri wings, they really look a lot nicer. Rob Hi Rob, that's a very neat join - almost impossible to see. Excellent work and very encouraging, too! Thanks for sharing, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navy Bird Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 I agree with pretty much everything that's been said. I built the Hasegawa F-104G as an F-104N: I added a resin cockpit and metal nose probe, as well as the decals. It was a pleasure to build. It will be interesting to compare this with a Revell F-104C project that is soon to be on my workbench. That will be a Vietnam bird using the new Caracal decal sheet. Cheers, Bill 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2996 Victor Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 19 minutes ago, Navy Bird said: I agree with pretty much everything that's been said. I built the Hasegawa F-104G as an F-104N: I added a resin cockpit and metal nose probe, as well as the decals. It was a pleasure to build. It will be interesting to compare this with a Revell F-104C project that is soon to be on my workbench. That will be a Vietnam bird using the new Caracal decal sheet. Cheers, Bill Thanks, Bill, that's great to know! Just popped over to your linked build thread - what a superb result! I love the NMF finish and the differential tones on the rear fuselage around the jet orifice. I'll be keeping an eye out for your Revell F-104C build! Kind regards, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alt-92 Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 There are a few sellers on that well-known auction site that have plenty of Hasegawa kits including the D-17 F-104G/S boxing. https://www.scalemates.com/kits/hasegawa-d17-f-104s-f-104g-starfighter--132248 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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