Coverting a 1/72 Sea Hurricane Ib

[Procopius]

I'm contemplating trying to make a Sea Hurricane Ib in 1/72, from bits of other kits. Now, there are some obstacles, foremost of which are:

1. I am kind of an idiot, and clumsy.

2. I have never done this before.

At hand I have the new Airfix Sea/Hurricane IIc, the Airfix Hurricane I/IIb, the Revell Hurricane IIb, the Airfix Hurricane I, and the Revell Hurricane IIc. Now, I presume I'd want to use the Airfix Hurricane I as the base, since later marks of Hurricane were longer, right? Has anyone tried this? How hard is it?

[The wooksta V2.0]

Might be better off with the Revell Sea Hurricane and the Revell Hurricane IIb - it's too short really for a Hurricane II and the former comes with the hook/lower fuselage fairing. Take it and apply to the latter and use the corresponding piece in the latter to finish the former as a IIc. Simples!

An Airfix Hurricane I canopy improves it no end and you may wish to invest in the 3D Spitfire II Rotol prop - you could use the one from the Airfix I but most examples I've seen are short shot mouldings.

The Airfix Hurricane I/IIb is old and pretty poor, I wouldn't use that as a basis. I did it a few years back as a whif and hated it.

[Test Graham]

Kill the Mk.I/II/IV and stamp it into the ground! The only good bits were the 40mm cannon, and they were too slim.

You are right about the Mk.I being shorter, however the Revell Mk.II isn't noticably shorter than it should be, and has other problems. I don't really care too much for the Airfix Mk.I, but it probably is your best bet from that choice. Cutting the top cowling engine off the Revell kit and transplanting it will cure the worst problem. (There are other methods but they require cutting wedging filling and sanding, and you say you want to avoid that.) You have panel lines to guide you so it isn't difficult - and as they quite correctly say, you have to have a go to gain the skills. You might find it a good idea to use the Revell exhausts too, I don't recall if the precise shape matters - check the photos.

The underfuselage hook part is available in the Revell Mk.IIc kit - if you haven't got one drop me a PM. You also need the catapult spools either side of the radiator but you're on your own there, with only your spares box to help. Look for very small tailwheels.... Auster, Birddog? Your main problem will be the need for a DH prop and spinner, and you will probably have to use the Airfix part here (though I remember them as too big and far too big, that memory may have exaggerated with time and needs must). Any MkII prop/spinner will be wrong. Pinching an Airfix Spitfire DH prop/spinner set will also be wrong, as the nose diameter is smaller on the Hurricane. I don't know of any aftermarket part, but the Sword/AZ Mk.I comes with a choice of three Spinners/props, and one of them is the DH, so people may have spares around.

If you intend doing a Pedestal aircraft with the yellow trim then send me a PM for notes on the choice. There is an article on the subject in an old Scale Aircraft Modelling that requires some corrections but still holds good for the most part (I can say that because I wrote it). There are transfers available for at least one example.

PS the new 3D Rotol prop is lovely, and will transfer across to a Hurricane Mk.I, but not to one with the arrester gear as this moved the cg aft and the heavier metal DH prop was required on the SH Mk.Ib. I do think I've seen an SH Mk.Ia on a CAM ship with this prop, so this could be an easier model in these colours. It wouldn't link to Sea Flight, however!

Edited April 26, 2011 by Graham Boak

[ClaudioN]

I'm contemplating trying to make a Sea Hurricane Ib in 1/72, from bits of other kits. Now, there are some obstacles, foremost of which are:

At hand I have the new Airfix Sea/Hurricane IIc, the Airfix Hurricane I/IIb, the Revell Hurricane IIb, the Airfix Hurricane I, and the Revell Hurricane IIc. Now, I presume I'd want to use the Airfix Hurricane I as the base, since later marks of Hurricane were longer, right? Has anyone tried this? How hard is it?

I'm building a Sea Hurricane Ib using the Revell Sea Hurricane fuselage and Hasegawa wing. The Revell Sea Hurricane kit pretends to be a Mk.II, but the fuselage length is in fact right for a Mk.I and it has the bonus that the tail hook is included in the kit.

You just have to widen the opening on the front fuselage for the exhaust stacks, so that you can move them back by approximately 1.5 mm. Rescribe the cowling panel lines accordingly and fill in the gap remaining at the front. Sounds almost insignificant, but it does change the look of the Hurricane nose.

Unofrtunately, the wing chord in the Revell kit is way too wide, so you'll have to look elsewhere for wings. An Airfix kit might help here; I didn't use mine because it was the older kit with raised panel lines. In case you wonder, I did not throw the Hasegawa fuselage away but am going to combine it with a set of Academy Mk.IIc wings (the Academy fuselage is unusable anyway, IMHO).

As Graham Boak already mentioned, possibly the hardest part of the build is finding a DeHavilland propeller with pointed spinner. If you wish to use the Revell kit, the only thing you can do is file the blades down to a much narrower chord (as they are, they would rather be at home on a Hamilton Standard propeller) and file down the spinner to a smaller and more pointed shape. I have tried this, but my patience ran out.

Claudio

[Procopius]

You are right about the Mk.I being shorter, however the Revell Mk.II isn't noticably shorter than it should be, and has other problems. I don't really care too much for the Airfix Mk.I, but it probably is your best bet from that choice. Cutting the top cowling engine off the Revell kit and transplanting it will cure the worst problem. (There are other methods but they require cutting wedging filling and sanding, and you say you want to avoid that.) You have panel lines to guide you so it isn't difficult - and as they quite correctly say, you have to have a go to gain the skills. You might find it a good idea to use the Revell exhausts too, I don't recall if the precise shape matters - check the photos.

The underfuselage hook part is available in the Revell Mk.IIc kit - if you haven't got one drop me a PM. You also need the catapult spools either side of the radiator but you're on your own there, with only your spares box to help. Look for very small tailwheels.... Auster, Birddog? Your main problem will be the need for a DH prop and spinner, and you will probably have to use the Airfix part here (though I remember them as too big and far too big, that memory may have exaggerated with time and needs must). Any MkII prop/spinner will be wrong. Pinching an Airfix Spitfire DH prop/spinner set will also be wrong, as the nose diameter is smaller on the Hurricane. I don't know of any aftermarket part, but the Sword/AZ Mk.I comes with a choice of three Spinners/props, and one of them is the DH, so people may have spares around.

If you intend doing a Pedestal aircraft with the yellow trim then send me a PM for notes on the choice. There is an article on the subject in an old Scale Aircraft Modelling that requires some corrections but still holds good for the most part (I can say that because I wrote it). There are transfers available for at least one example.

I'm kind of embarrassed that until a few weeks ago, I thought Hurricanes had only two kinds of props: two-bladed ones, and the much nicer three-bladed ones! Some GI Junior googling has ascertained that Quickboost makes a resin De Havilland Hurri prop; would this work?

Also, forgive my ignorance, but which part exactly is the top cowling? Is it just the metal over the top of the engine, or the whole engine assembly?

My thought was that I'd like to do a Sea Hurricane from around April-May of '42, so between the Indian Ocean Raid and IRONCLAD.

[ClaudioN]

I'm kind of embarrassed that until a few weeks ago, I thought Hurricanes had only two kinds of props: two-bladed ones, and the much nicer three-bladed ones! Some GI Junior googling has ascertained that Quickboost makes a resin De Havilland Hurri prop; would this work?

Quickboost QB 72-211 looks right.

Claudio

[Spitfires Forever]

I'm contemplating trying to make a Sea Hurricane Ib in 1/72, from bits of other kits. Now, there are some obstacles, foremost of which are:

1. I am kind of an idiot, and clumsy.

2. I have never done this before.

At hand I have the new Airfix Sea/Hurricane IIc, the Airfix Hurricane I/IIb, the Revell Hurricane IIb, the Airfix Hurricane I, and the Revell Hurricane IIc. Now, I presume I'd want to use the Airfix Hurricane I as the base, since later marks of Hurricane were longer, right? Has anyone tried this? How hard is it?

[/quote

I have done the Sea Hurricane in 1/48 using the MDC conversion/hook kit and the Airfix Mk I. It is much easier to scratch build a hook for a Seafire than the Hurricane, so the other1/72 Hurricane kits won't look much like a Sea Hurricane without the hook. The other issue is the decals. You can make the Ib with the 12 gun wing and operation Torch markings, and the IIc in the white with camo nose if you got the proper markings. For the IId you can do a version from RAF 164 Sq. in the slate and extra dark sea grey and not worry about the hook, you just need the proper markings. The Airfix Hurricane has the proper short and pointy nose for the Ib so that is one good choice, relatively speaking. A good thing to do may be to pick up the Squadron publication on the Hurricane, while not great as a resource, it is still very useful. Also, check out youtube and the Mkib Sea Hurricane in the Operation Pedestal markings, great closeups of the various sections of the aircraft. The bottom line is, if you don't have the proper markings and conversion parts then you really can't do a valid Sea Hurricane.

Good luck.

[Test Graham]

Sorry, but there is some misinformation here. The Airfix Mk.I Hurricane does have a pointy nose, but this is wrong - there is not enough space under it for a Merlin. There is a very rapid change of section after the spinner to "shoulders" at the top. The reason for doing this is to get the right shape/width over the front of the engine cylinder heads. Hasegawa and Sword/AZ have this right, Revell is pretty close. Airfix has it wrong every time in 1/72. By "top cowling" I meant panel above the exhausts, from nose to the start of the fuselage. The engine cowlings of the Mk.I and Mk.II Hurricane are the same - the difference between them comes in the fuselage between the engine cowling and the canopy, and the fairing to the wing leading edge. There are other minor differences in shape behind the spinner, depending upon date and spinner, but these can be ignored for SH.

The SH Mk.Ib had only eight guns not 12. The Mk.Ib did not take part in Torch, these were Mk.IIb. There was no SH Mk.IId, and 164 Sq did not have had the FAA Temperate Sea Scheme but the RAF's Day Fighter Scheme. The SH Mk.I suffixes cause confusion because they did not correspond to the RAF armament suffixes. The SH Mk.Ia had catapult gear but no arrester gear, and were used for the CAM ships. The Mk.Ib had both catapult and arrester gear, and were used for fleet carriers. I have a BAe document which states that the Mk.Ic had arrester gear but no catapult gear, and was intended for escort carriers, but I have not seen this confirmed in contemporary documents. There was one (possibly two?) trial aircraft for the SH Mk.I with 4xcannon, but these were returned to normal and there were no service Mk.I with 4xcannon. Yes, I know the wartime publicity (and many books since) say that there was one on Indomitable for Pedestal. A surviving 880 armourer says not. All Sea Hurricane Mk.Is had eight guns. The one exception is the hybrid BD771, an ex-RAF Hurricane Mk.IIB converted to Merlin III and Sea Hurricane standards, which seems to have retained its eight guns - and the longer nose.

Thanks for the Quickboost reference, I missed those and shall have to get some. The Mk.I Hurricanes used (at least) the following props:

Watts 2-blade: initial service

DH variable pitch for Hurricane: prewar and early war

Rotol constant speed (sized for Spitfire): early 1940, perhaps a few 1939, many Battle of Britain

DH vp for Spitfire it is said, around the Battle of France time. I don't disagree, but I can't point to any (haven't looked closely).

DH constant speed for Hurricane - same external appearance as the vp. In-sevice conversions from June 1940 and necessary for the SH Mk.Ib.

Rotol constant speed for Hurricane - the familiar bullet spinner from the Mk.II. On very late production examples from late 1940. (and BD771.)

I have checked the Revell Hurricane nose against the Airfix Mk.I, and it is longer. I have checked it against the Hasegawa Mk.II, and it is about the same. I suppose I should also check against the Sword/AZ, but if it is seriously too short, then every 1/72 Hurricane is wrong in the nose. The moulding does show the longer wing -to-nose fairing of the Mk.II.

All 880 Sq a/c in that period carried Temperate Sea Scheme with the Day Fighter trim of Sky band, Sky spinner and yellow outer leading edges. I have most of the serial/code combinations for that time. One way around the nose/propellor problems would be to do BD771, which was 7.Z, and (despite what I argued in my article) was painted in Temperate Sea Scheme.

[Procopius]

Sorry, but there is some misinformation here. The Airfix Mk.I Hurricane does have a pointy nose, but this is wrong - there is not enough space under it for a Merlin. There is a very rapid change of section after the spinner to "shoulders" at the top. The reason for doing this is to get the right shape/width over the front of the engine cylinder heads. Hasegawa and Sword/AZ have this right, Revell is pretty close. Airfix has it wrong every time in 1/72. By "top cowling" I meant panel above the exhausts, from nose to the start of the fuselage...

I have checked the Revell Hurricane nose against the Airfix Mk.I, and it is longer. I have checked it against the Hasegawa Mk.II, and it is about the same. I suppose I should also check against the Sword/AZ, but if it is seriously too short, then every 1/72 Hurricane is wrong in the nose. The moulding does show the longer wing -to-nose fairing of the Mk.II.

Would I be better served by simply obtaining a Hasegawa Hurricane in 1/72? Would their Finnish Air Force Hurricane I be an appropriate model to use?

[Test Graham]

Can of worms time! The problem with the Hasegawa Mk.I is that Hasegawa split the nose and fuselage, but split it in the correct position for the Mk.II. The Hasegawa standard Hurricane release is described as a Mk.Ib - no such animal existed and the kit is the right length for a Mk.II. Change the prop to a late Rotol and you have a nice Mk.IIb. To get a Mk.I the correct length they had to produce a too-short engine cowling. The Finnish one I haven't had, but as one of the short-availability options it will have the too-short nose. I don't know what prop is provided but it should be the DH one. You can always fill the cowling/fuselage joint and scribe a new one.

Otherwise yes, Hasegawa is the best Hurricane - a somewhat disputed point because of its shocking deep recesses for the fabric covering. Mr Surfacer will fill the "fabric" grooves, I'm told. I used diluted Milliput but would not recommend it - it's messy! My unfinished SH Mk.Ib has been based on a standard Hasegawa kit, but I removed 2mm from the front of the fuselage parts to get the right length.

[Miggers]

Graham is pretty much right about SH production and use.

I can add a tad more for you:

Nearly 250 SH Mk1a's were converted from ex-RAF Mk1's(many were B of B veterans).

These were the CAM Hurricanes.

They were all 8 gunners and were indeed only fitted with cat spools and no hooks.

SH Mk1b's were the first true Sea Hurri converted for deck ops.

It was fitted with an arrestor hook to enable ops from light fleets or escort carriers.

No reference to cat spools,just hooks.

Again,all were conversions from ex-RAF 8 gun fighters.

SH Mk1c.

I can't yay or nay Graham's information,but can add a bit to it.

The 1c was intended to introduce 4 cannon armament to the Sea Hurri,but due to

the armament reducing the aircraft's top speed to 290mph,it was only to be used

primarily as a bomber destroyer in the abscence of opposing fighters.

The Merlin III's performance being considered acceptable in the light of the

increased firepower of the four cannon armament.

The only serial number I have for an SH Mk1c is V6741,which I would say,

places it in an RAF production block,so once again a converted ex-RAF machine.

I think Spit addict is confusing the converted SH Mk1a/b/c series with the Canadian

built SH XIIa.

This was delivered with the 12 gun wing,the other Canadian built Sea Hurri being

the Mk X with the "normal" 8 gun wing,both types being built as Sea Hurris rather

than conversions of existing aircraft.

As to an accurate SH Mk1,well it depends on how much hammering and banging

you're prepared to do by the sound of things.

Have a word with our man Tony O'Toole though(tonyot on here).

He did an excellent article in SAM some years ago on detailing and correcting

Revell's rather nice(apart from it's inacuracies that is)Hurri Mk II series of kits.

Pretty sure he reckoned Academy's wing was the closest and combines them

(slightly modified)with modified Revell fuselages.

I certainly remember they really looked the part(he did 3 or 4 IIRC)when finished.

Mark

[Test Graham]

No such thing as light fleet carriers in those days, the first not entering service until 1945. The Mk.Ibs had catapult spools (more correctly in the terminology of the time, accelerator spools) for use on the fleet carriers, seeing service predominantly on Indomitable and Eagle, but also Victorious and Argus for Pedestal. I haven't seen any suggestion that they didn't have the catapult spools but don't recall seeing photos of thme "perched" - is there any reference in Sea Flight? Thinking about it, doesn't the Shuttleworth's example (ex-880 Sq if not necessarily Pedestal) have both the spools and the pick-up points? Somewhere I've got a walkaround.....

I think it is fairer to say that the combination of Merlin III and 4 cannon was considered unacceptable: Cork is on record as considering the speed of the standard Mk.Ib inadequate against the Ju88. Older sources (including Mason, usually very sound of Hurricanes but much less so on the SH) speak of 100, but no serials are ever quoted and none of these can be found in the FAA records or pilots' logbooks. By then, 1942, some RAF squadrons with Mk.IIs were removing one pair of cannon to improve the dogfighting survivability. The poor Mk.I really was lumbering with such a heavy armament, and even more so an SH.

Edited April 26, 2011 by Graham Boak

[ClaudioN]

SH Mk1b's were the first true Sea Hurri converted for deck ops.

It was fitted with an arrestor hook to enable ops from light fleets or escort carriers.

No reference to cat spools,just hooks.

Again,all were conversions from ex-RAF 8 gun fighters.

Although all Sea Hurricanes were conversions from RAF Hurricanes, calling them all "ex-RAF" is perhaps misleading.

Most of those serving with second-line units were in fact quite worn, but a large part of the Mk.Ib's serving aboard Fleet Carriers were new-build machines. Many of them were Canadian-built.

The early Sea Hurricanes sent out to Ark Royal for evaluation had indeed served previously with RAF squadrons and 807 Sqn. found they offered little improvement over the low-altitude performance of the Fulmar. Regardless, even a brand new Sea Hurricane would have had a hard time catching a Ju 88 in 1942.

Claudio