Paint Question #2 - SCC2

[Mikey58]

Thanks Ted,good info there.

Mike

[fatfingers]

@Fatfingers

The end result looks excellent. The first shot of the Cromwell looks wrong though - nothing like SCC 2, though quite like how Tamiya and others like to portray it in their artwork.

So how did you manage the transition because it looks great - just like the famous Centaur picture that appears on the front of the 'Tank Men' book.

Cheers,

Nigel

Thanks for the comments Nigel.

As I recall, I glossed the kit up with Future floor polish, this helped to darken the paint colour down a few shades. Once the decals were on I washed the kit with various ammounts of Games Workshop Dadab Black and Devlan Mud. When this had dried the whole model was dry brushed with Games Workshop Khemri Brown, followed by Kommando Khaki. This was done in a circular motion to avoid streaks. Mig Industrial Grime pigments were added to various corners and around the running gear and wheels. A quick blast of Hannants matt varnish sealed it all in and also darkened the colour a bit more.

Sorry I couldn't be a bit more precise with the mixes etc, but I tend to use different techniques on each model I build! Hope this is of some help to you.

Regards,

Steve

[NORTHDUK]

I have tried the new mix ratio and I am still a little perplexed.

It still comes out much darker and browner than the base in your pictures – quite similar to my original mix but a little lighter and less red.

What is puzzling me is this

Revell 84 is called Leather Brown and is a dark, rich chestnut colour

Revel 86 is called Olive Brown and is quite similar to the SCC2 in your pictures but a little darker and greener.

So I struggle to understand how you can mix two colours which are both darker than the colour you are trying to achieve – and any mix with so much Revell 84 Leather Brown is going to end up as a dark brown colour.

Here are some swatches to explain what I mean

As you can see, even the revised mix is quite a dark brown and that is understandable when you look at unmixed Revell 84 and 86 colours.

There seems to be some disjoint to me. The Mike Starmer mix produces a dark chocolate brown much much different to any version of SCC 2 I have seen presented.

The mix seems so off, that I can only think he has listed the wrong paint numbers or that Revell have changed their paint numbers since.

Cheers,

Nigel

Having said that, looking at his Humbrol mix, Mike has 5 parts 98 (choclate brown) and 4 parts 29 (dark earth) which would make the humbrol mix significantly darker than dark earth, whereas the representations including the colour photo above is lighter than dark earth.

I have a copy of BS987C/1942 and have scanned the colour samples of these browns. Can anyone tell me how to attach files to posts here so that I can post the scan? It seems to me that the original colours might be more useful than trying to evaluate second- or third-hand mixes and samples.

Gordon McLaughlin

[Mark Mackenzie]

NORTHDUK said:

I have a copy of BS987C/1942 and have scanned the colour samples of these browns. Can anyone tell me how to attach files to posts here so that I can post the scan? It seems to me that the original colours might be more useful than trying to evaluate second- or third-hand mixes and samples.

Gordon McLaughlin

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Edited January 5, 2020 by Mark Mackenzie

[NORTHDUK]

Hi Gordon,

I'd love to see your scans. You can attach the scans using photobucket, which is free:

http://photobucket.com/

Create an account and then load the image into your account. After loading, copy the "image code" address to the place where you want to place the image. The image code is obtained when you hover the mouse over the picture you have just loaded. If you run into trouble I can load for you using my account.

Cheers,

Mark.

Mark,

Thanks for your reply.

I'll have a look at Photobucket this evening and see if I can use it. If not, I'll send you the scan as an e-mail attachment.

Gordon McLaughlin

[NORTHDUK]

Mark,

Thanks for your reply.

I'll have a look at Photobucket this evening and see if I can use it. If not, I'll send you the scan as an e-mail attachment.

Gordon McLaughlin

The scans for the three browns are attached (I hope!).

Gordon McLaughlin

BS987C/1942 BROWNS

[Mark Mackenzie]

NORTHDUK said:

The scans for the three browns are attached (I hope!).

Gordon McLaughlin

BS987C/1942 BROWNS

n/m

Edited January 5, 2020 by Mark Mackenzie

[ted angus]

The scans for the three browns are attached (I hope!).

Gordon McLaughlin

BS987C/1942 BROWNS

Thanks Gordon, I think on my screen they look a little dark SCC 1A looks black but they all lighten slightly if the image is enlarged ; I just wish I could get my hands on a copy' For model purposes are you and Mark happy with Mike Starmer's Revel mix ??

Thanks

Regards TED

[NORTHDUK]

Thanks Gordon, I think on my screen they look a little dark SCC 1A looks black but they all lighten slightly if the image is enlarged ; I just wish I could get my hands on a copy' For model purposes are you and Mark happy with Mike Starmer's Revel mix ??

Thanks

Regards TED

I think it might be your screen settings, Ted, as they look OK on my monitor. The dark brown, SCC1A, is aptly described as a chocolate colour. It certainly isn't anywhere near black.

I don't have any of Mike Starmer's books and haven't tried any of his mixes so I can't usefully comment. I haven't seen Revell paints locally for years. I'd like a tin or two of No9 Anthracite although I always regarded Revell paints as requiring a leap of faith as they behaved quite differently from Humbrol, Xtracolour and other paints that I've used.

Looking at the colours over the years, I'm not fully convinced that the colours are all intended for vehicles. Shade 19, added in July 1945, was intended for tropical uniforms and personal equipment. I've sometimes wondered if they might have included camouflage colours for buildings as well.

Gordon McLaughlin

[ted angus]

I think it might be your screen settings, Ted, as they look OK on my monitor. The dark brown, SCC1A, is aptly described as a chocolate colour. It certainly isn't anywhere near black.

I don't have any of Mike Starmer's books and haven't tried any of his mixes so I can't usefully comment. I haven't seen Revell paints locally for years. I'd like a tin or two of No9 Anthracite although I always regarded Revell paints as requiring a leap of faith as they behaved quite differently from Humbrol, Xtracolour and other paints that I've used.

Looking at the colours over the years, I'm not fully convinced that the colours are all intended for vehicles. Shade 19, added in July 1945, was intended for tropical uniforms and personal equipment. I've sometimes wondered if they might have included camouflage colours for buildings as well.

Gordon McLaughlin

Hello Gordon yes I am convinced my monitor needs an adjustment. As regards Revell They are normally on e-bay, one outlet sells six tins minimum order but they are post free and cheaper per tin than the local model shops. I have made several orders with total satisfaction . Mind in the last week the toy shop in St Andrews who only have a very small selection of models now stock both Humbrol & revell paints and other products.

regards TED

[Mark Mackenzie]

n/m

Edited January 5, 2020 by Mark Mackenzie

[Troy Smith]

The scans for the three browns are attached (I hope!).

Gordon McLaughlin

BS987C/1942 BROWNS

Hi Gordon

you can add pics direct to you post, if you hover your mouse above the 7th icon in the posting window it will say 'insert image' just copy and paste in the pic. Manually you can add these two "tags" that don't show up when you put them into a posting!

here's the site's 'how to' http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=6

You don't see the

http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/ff476/NORTHDUK/BS987CP1019.jpg' alt='BS987CP1019.jpg'>

I'm still trying to get to grips with British Armour colours so this kind of information is fascinating.

cheers

T

[Mike Starmer]

'The museum painted vehicles and artwork in books are not accurate, which is why they look so different.'

Quite so. Some years ago I was at Bovington watching their painter outside applying markings to their brown Churchill. The colour was brown but not SCC 2. I asked how they went about deciding the colour of this exhibit. The reply? Well we were told they were sort of dark brown so we went to B&Q and found something that we thought about right. There was no need to guess, they have a copy of BS.987C in their archive. But colour is not important to the staff there and no one it appears is interested enough to bother. They do however have copies of my books.

On the subject of mixes. One of the problems of using model paints is that they are all mixtures to start with. So when setting out to create a new mix one has to select a possible suitable base colour and then find something which will achieve the desired result keeping in mind that some colours may have a tint of a strong primary colour in them in small undetectable amounts that will throw off the resulting mix. Greys in particular are never neutrals they always have something else in them which messes up the resulting mix. Blue is a colour which needs careful use as the primary pigment can be iron oxide (Prussian Blue) which is green or Ultramarine which is yellow. What ever you add to them is going to be biased either way. Reds are purple or yellow based too.

[Nick Nichols]

Hi,

Ted has sent me some more photos and I think this one clears up the mystery

Hi,

What is the name of this book with color chips on this photo, and where I can buy it?

[nheather]

Hi,

What is the name of this book with color chips on this photo, and where I can buy it?

I think it was one of Mike Starmer's books - suspect it is the "British Army Colours .... 1936 to 1945"

http://matadormodels.co.uk/tank_museum/xcamo_starmer.htm

This page says you can get them direct from the author.

Cheers,

Nigel

Edited February 5, 2016 by nheather

[Nick Nichols]

I think it was one of Mike Starmer's books - suspect it is the "British Army Colours .... 1936 to 1945"

http://matadormodels.co.uk/tank_museum/xcamo_starmer.htm

This page says you can get them direct from the author.

Cheers,

Nigel

Thank you, Nigel!

[Mike Starmer]

The book is still available. Go to Matador Models site for an e-mail address.

[Mike Starmer]

Ted, the mix is for KG3 is 12 x R361 + 5 x R360 + 7 x R84 . That was worked out in 2007 against a 1939 steel helmet, a replicated new sample from Hamilton's Paints in Canada and components of a 1940 vintage Norton motorcycle that was recovered from under a rubbish pile in a barn in Belgium.

This still had very good condition paintwork in KG3 and a light green of unknown origin. Even the 2 Inf. Div. markings were clear and undamaged. It had yellow gas paint on the top of headlamp and the rear number plate was cobalt blue with a gas yellow 1 thereon. The remains of the headlamp glass showed a light blue paint had been applied to that area.

Last year I discovered that Humbrol had changed the 155 colour to be slightly darker and greener. In addition the gloss 10 had changed too. I found via trials that 5 x H155 + 1 x H10 makes a very close match to KG3. It needs matt varnish of course, and be careful withe 10, too much results in a too stronger brown than is required. Gas yellow is equal parts H81 & H99, I generally use 81only on a model