spike7451 Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 We've been doing this dog robbing for years,when I was in the usually was an abundance of spares..not now it seems... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-13081691 The RAF's most advanced fighter jets have been grounded owing to shortages of spare parts, MPs have found. The Commons public accounts committee said five Typhoon pilots were grounded last year because they had been unable to put in enough training flight hours. The jets have been used in Libya, and were deployed for the first time in a ground attack this week near Misrata. The Ministry of Defence insists the problems identified by the committee have since been addressed. Although Typhoons - which are made by BAE systems in Warton, Lancashire - have already been carrying out air defence missions, they have only recently been equipped for a ground attack role and were deployed in a bombing mission for the first time this week in Libya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonP Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 Somethings never change! TWCU nearly always had two 'Christmas trees' up on jacks at the end of the hangar back in the '80s. You could be sitting there putting a bit on while someone was robbing a bit from the other side! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbuna Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 Didn't somebody i officialdom say that the cuts wouldn't have an adverse effect on our operational capability? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasmahal Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 (edited) We've been doing this dog robbing for years,when I was in the usually was an abundance of spares..not now it seems... I laughed when a few people who know I used to be in the RAF said to me this morning after seeing the news and saying 'Isn't bad that they have take bits off aircraft cos of the cutbacks'. I told them it's been common practice for may years and there's a cannibalisation form for it. Edited April 15, 2011 by plasmahal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigsty Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 (edited) Don't forget that if the MoD bought enough spare parts to guarantee that no piece of equipment would ever need to be cannibalised, there would be just as many bile-filled headlines about "scandal of £3m fuel tanks stored in shed in Bedfordshire and never used" etc. Edited April 15, 2011 by pigsty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Jones Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 Interesting part of the BBC report this morning was the Mirages and F16's used to illustrate the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foghorn Leghorn Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 (edited) Typhoon bashing seems to be flavour of the month ... First the media says we've bought a white elephant because Typhoons can't drop bombs... All of a sudden the media tells us they're dropping LGBs, granted there's not a large number of FGR4s in service but (are you listening, the media world out there?) they CAN drop bombs. So, now we hear that the Typhoons are grounded because of a lack of spares. We're obviously in the 'lets kick the Typhoon' season, you wonder what'll be next .... Edited April 16, 2011 by neilscrim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamS Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 (edited) Don't forget that if the MoD bought enough spare parts to guarantee that no piece of equipment would ever need to be cannibalised, there would be just as many bile-filled headlines about "scandal of £3m fuel tanks stored in shed in Bedfordshire and never used" etc. No, but you you expect them (whoever is responsible for purchasing spares) to be given the funds to get the balance right. Not sure either is being done. Not sure that it's just having a go at Typhoon either, more like Government spending cuts bashing. Graham Edited April 16, 2011 by GrahamS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefr22 Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 The more concerning bit of that story to me is the lack of training & hours the pilots are getting.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlet Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 The more concerning bit of that story to me is the lack of training & hours the pilots are getting.... I read somewhere (AFM I think) last year, that NATO had expressed concern that some RAF pilots were not reaching the minimum NATO required flying hours to remain current. Looks like nothing has changed and the situation has got worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbuna Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 I read somewhere (AFM I think) last year, that NATO had expressed concern that some RAF pilots were not reaching the minimum NATO required flying hours to remain current. Looks like nothing has changed and the situation has got worse. Yes that would be very concerning if it's true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Pulfrew Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 Yes that would be very concerning if it's true. Trust me, it's true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roys Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 But what about training in modern simulators? Anybody in the know care to comment if it is a viable alternative to save costs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabba Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 No, but you you expect them (whoever is responsible for purchasing spares) to be given the funds to get the balance right. Not sure either is being done.Not sure that it's just having a go at Typhoon either, more like Government spending cuts bashing. Graham The same thing happened with the Tornado when it first came into service, normally each Sqn had one aircraft that sat in the hangar to act as a christmas tree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spike7451 Posted April 16, 2011 Author Share Posted April 16, 2011 But what about training in modern simulators? Anybody in the know care to comment if it is a viable alternative to save costs? They do train in simulators on a regular basis & when they do,the earn 'credits' which keep them current on how to handle emergencies ect,but sim time is never as good as actual flight time & the are certain things you cannot do in the simulator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_c Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 Makes me laugh the big deal people are making of this 'robbing' business. In my experience as soon as a cab goes u/s for more than a few days, it immediately becomes a Christmas tree in order to get others in the air. Then, depending on the spares availability the next u/s cab is robbed to get the previous one up and so on....... Unfortunately it's very common practice and as Plasmahal says, there is an official MoD canibalisation form that gets filled in and placed into the paperwork chain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enzo the Magnificent Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 Makes me laugh the big deal people are making of this 'robbing' business. In my experience as soon as a cab goes u/s for more than a few days, it immediately becomes a Christmas tree in order to get others in the air. In the late 80s Harrier squadrons were robbing a certain component from serviceable jets as soon as they hit the deck, and putting them into jets that were due to fly in five minutes time. Then the robbed jet would get its component replaced by one robbed from another jet that had shut down just before it was due to fly. The components got through their lives very quickly indeed, but it kept our jets in the air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sooty Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 Once again the press make a mountain out of a molehill. I once had to rob parts from the gate guard at Leuchars for one of the sqn jets so we could get it up for an air test. The press would have a field day if they knew about one tenth of the problems the armed forces had to deal with on a daily basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theflyingwelshman Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 Once again the press make a mountain out of a molehill. I once had to rob parts from the gate guard at Leuchars for one of the sqn jets so we could get it up for an air test. The press would have a field day if they knew about one tenth of the problems the armed forces had to deal with on a daily basis. you should see how many parts we had to rob from tristars that were u/s. Either to keep the airbridge open, or for the AAR capability. this was increased when the haden-cave report was published. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbuna Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 Trust me, it's true. Oh believe me I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spike7451 Posted April 17, 2011 Author Share Posted April 17, 2011 In the late 80s Harrier squadrons were robbing a certain component from serviceable jets as soon as they hit the deck, and putting them into jets that were due to fly in five minutes time. Then the robbed jet would get its component replaced by one robbed from another jet that had shut down just before it was due to fly. The components got through their lives very quickly indeed, but it kept our jets in the air. Granby springs to mind...jet goes T/Up on start up,crew dash to the spare or you rob a bit to get it up again...That was one det where the rule book went well out the window! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jynski Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 Granby springs to mind...jet goes T/Up on start up,crew dash to the spare or you rob a bit to get it up again...That was one det where the rule book went well out the window! Cannibalization is a way of life in the USAF. Usually each squadron would have a jet that was used for "k-ball" use. After a certain amount of time, it was turned serviceable and another took its place. Parts were usually taken off the new k-ball jet to make the other serviceable before it went into "hanger queen" status for staying out of use too long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spike7451 Posted April 28, 2011 Author Share Posted April 28, 2011 Cannibalization is a way of life in the USAF. Usually each squadron would have a jet that was used for "k-ball" use. After a certain amount of time, it was turned serviceable and another took its place. Parts were usually taken off the new k-ball jet to make the other serviceable before it went into "hanger queen" status for staying out of use too long. Same as the RAF,but in this case,the stores level was allowed to get dangerously low..How it was allowed to happen is beyond me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gary1701 Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 Gents, While most people - except the media obviously - understand the usual squadron level cannibalization as standard practise, what's happening with the Typhoon maybe isn't quite the same. As a previous poster said, aircraft that became the short term hangar queen would eventually be brought back upto flying status, with another airframe being used instead, that way airframe hours would roughly remain constant. There's airframes on the RAF Typhoon fleet that have never flown since delivery, however many years ago that was and were earmarked for cannibalization the moment they were flown from Warton and delivered. Other airframes have gone in and out of use, but we're still talking of years in some cases between flights. I'm not current or ex-military so I'm speculating like mad, but that doesn't sound to me like the normal practise of a squadron level hangar queen. Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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