Geoff Hays Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Hi Folks, Can I make a plea for caution and a temporary suspension of discussions about on-going military operations in and around the Med. These folks are flying no-kidding wartime missions and not only are they, but the support teams, and anyone else associated with them could be in real danger from a well-intended but ill-timed word. We'll all have a lot of time, and thanx for the spotters that have been talked about elsewhere a lot of great primary source material to talk about when this is done. If I can paraphrase a line from the movie "Strategic Air Command, "Let them do it first, and then we'll talk about it.. Thanx folks. Geoff Hays "Former Intel Puke" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanM201 Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Well said. There has been lots of interesting discussion however maybe a little too precise with the information? Some of the threads have made me wince - such as asking what current vehicle weapons are deployed in Afghanistan... I'm not paranoid having spent 10 years with 525 STRE (V) however guys, maybe a little thought sometimes as to who is asking the questions and why? (sorry if I sound soapboxy, not meant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilgrim_UK Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Good intentions lads but one website is not going to stop all the other websites doing the same thing. Its a bit like Piddling in the wind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Good intentions lads but one website is not going to stop all the other websites doing the same thing. Its a bit like Piddling in the wind. maybe so, but we can only be responsible for our own place so let's do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howard Moon Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Good intentions lads but one website is not going to stop all the other websites doing the same thing. Its a bit like Piddling in the wind. Yes agreed, there is nothing being discussed here which isn't already in the public domain. If somebody directly involved in Op Ellamy was on here giving out information it would be a different matter. I am sure one of the site moderators is a serving Warrant Officer in the British Army and he would be the first to raise the matter if there was a genuine operational security issue. As for vehicles and weapons systems deployed in Afghanistan, well it's all on the British Army website or watch the re-runs of Mike Brewer's Frontline Battle Machines, (a good series made all the better for including our tour ). Respect your sentiment however, Steve erm.. I mean Howard.. yes, my name is Howard.. Bugger there goes my persec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pielstick Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 (edited) The discussions here are based on listening to a live ATC feed which is available to *any* net connected computer in the world. Likewise that ATC audio is also available to anyone with a VHF/UHF receiver in Malta. Nobody is discussing any info which is not already in the public domain. Also please do not forget a great many members here are serving or former members of the Armed Forces and are already quite familiar with what sort of stuff should and shouldn't be discussed in public. If the powers that be were that bothered about us listening in they would shut down the live ATC feed from Malta. Edited March 23, 2011 by Pielstick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Kunac-Tabinor Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Theres an old english phrase for this - "ollocks" Total online invented paranoia for the purpose of seeming important - theres nothing on here that you wont get from google or bbc news 24 online, or reading a newspaper for that matter Can I make a plea for the permanent suspension of this stupid thread before it turns into the utter ballderdash that it inevitably will. PLEASE!!!! Jonners PS note to Muhamar G, we are bombing you. oops! there goes my DRA clearance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tango98 Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 (edited) Ditto what Jonners said. Edited March 23, 2011 by tango98 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daz greenwood Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 I recieved this as a message over on UKAR earlier: Libya Sent at: Tue 22 Mar 2011, 10:44 pm From: UK Airshow Review To: Registered users Global moderators Administrators Moderators As you are all no doubt aware, military action continues to take place in the skies over Libya, with assets based in the UK taking part. We kindly ask that details of participating aircraft are not posted on UKAR until it has been confirmed that the aircraft have safely returned to base (and even then please consider whether or not it is appropriate to post details such as routings, timings, frequencies etc). We realise that similar information can often be obtained elsewhere while the missions are underway, but we feel uncomfortable having information that potentially puts aircrews in danger being posted on UKAR. Indeed we have received requests from some of the aircrew involved to this effect. Thanks for your understanding, the UKAR team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mentalguru Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Although I certainly agree on a personal level with Jonners, I DO feel there could just possibly be "issues" with certain aspects of this stuff. Like for instance the F-15 that did a one way trip. You never know about poo-poo going wrong until after its gone wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefr22 Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Likewise that ATC audio is also available to anyone with a VHF/UHF receiver in Malta. And Libya! It's why they 'go tactical' when they're off to do their real work.... K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calum Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Hi Folks, Can I make a plea for caution and a temporary suspension of discussions about on-going military operations in and around the Med. These folks are flying no-kidding wartime missions and not only are they, but the support teams, and anyone else associated with them could be in real danger from a well-intended but ill-timed word. We'll all have a lot of time, and thanx for the spotters that have been talked about elsewhere a lot of great primary source material to talk about when this is done. If I can paraphrase a line from the movie "Strategic Air Command, "Let them do it first, and then we'll talk about it.. Thanx folks. Geoff Hays "Former Intel Puke" Seriousily........what a load of tripe. Do you really think that anything discussed here isn't already out int he big wide world.... Perhaps you should ask the USN, USAF and RAF etc to stop posting photos on their website, and allowing their aircrew to be interviewed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg B Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 What has been discussed so far has been out in the open. I must admit that I found it uncomfortable at first that callsigns were being used, but then of course quickly realised that what happens on live ATC will certainly be different from what happens over the operational fence on a tactical, secure, scrambled link. The discussion of airframes and our interpretation of tactics will not effect in the slightest operations happening as I type. However if someone does have "inside" info on an upcoming tasking, I'm pretty sure that they would exercise discretion. No names, no pack drills. Greg B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 The biggest culprits fro revealing military actions are the press and media!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow07 Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 The biggest culprits fro revealing military actions are the press and media!!!! Amen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pielstick Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 (edited) I must admit that I found it uncomfortable at first that callsigns were being used I think the mission planners know that there's an army of spotters listening in hence the creative use of callsigns. I think the B-2s were using a callsign usually associated with transports, and some RAF flights have been using callsigns usually associated with Tucanos Not a bad idea really, quite a sensible subterfuge to take given the circumstances. The biggest culprits fro revealing military actions are the press and media!!!! The biggest culprits are the military themselves. Back in 2008 when I was on the AGRT (Arabian Gulf Ready Tanker) the XO would make daily threats to remove access to the email and Paradigm phone system because he was terrified we were talking abouthe ship's programme with our families. We stopped in Dubai for a week of maintenance and repairs. The MOD hired a local ship repair company to come on board and assist the ship's company and for that week we were overrun with Arab, Sri Lankan and Indian workers - all of whom were free to roam about the ship and read the ship's programme which was posted on every notice board, and that included dates and locations of port visits, as well as the date, time and name of every UK and allied warship we were programmed to RAS in the coming weeks. About a month later we arrived as part of a task group in Goa to begin a big exercise with the Indian Navy. When we arrived the ship's (local) agent came on board with armfuls of fliers from the local hotels which had the name of every ship in our group along with the exact dates of our stay offering discounted rates. When we arrived on the first beach in Goa the bars there all had huge banners up welcoming every ship in our group *by name* so they knew we were coming. I've seen some muppets who even email the ship's programme to their wife/girlfriend.... on at least one occasion they've been caught by the security bods ashore and it resulted in the entire ship's company losing access to email and the Paradigm phones for a couple of months. You can bet he wasn't popular! There's been a big drive recently to stop people posting stuff on Facebook, especially about what ships they are on and where they are. In fact a signal went around the fleet last year telling everyone to turn of the "location" feature on Facebook which shows everyone where you were the last time you logged on. Likewise in all the many years my ships have been going in and out of Portland only once has the contracted security guard on the gangway asked for my ID when returning back to the ship... sometimes they don't even look up from the TV they are watching! On 4th July 2004 in Sembawang Naval Base in Singapore I went ashore with my colleagues to celebrate my birthday. When returning to the ship I realised I had forgotten my ID, and managed to get through 3 Singapore Navy checkpoints and 2 US Marine checkpoints (all armed) and onto the ship with my South Tyneside College Card. Dare I mention a NATO refuelling jetty I have visited quite a few times which has a public road running by and totally inadequate security arrangements which allow just about anyone to wander down the jetty right up to the ship? There's more but this isn't the appropriate place to talk about them. Edited March 24, 2011 by Pielstick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calum Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 (edited) The biggest culprits fro revealing military actions are the press and media!!!! Rather than bash the press, who generally are doing their jobs (reporting the news). Why don't you look at where they get their info from. Most it comes from the military briefers. Edited March 24, 2011 by Calum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Well they should know better too! But the media have a habit of oversensationalising, prey on the gullible with propaganda attitudes and often distort the truth to sell papers. Sorry if you disagree but thats my opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 Not only the military know that there's an army of spotters listening, they also know that there's plenty of spies watching. Everybody knows where the bases are, it's not difficult for the Libyan government to know if an F-15E or a tornado has left its base. Do you really think that they need to check here or UKAR to find out ? Come on, we're talking about a regime that has killed dissidents everywhere in the world, don't you think they might know how to find certain information ? What they can or not do with that info is a different story: even if they know a couple of planes are taking off or know when they are under a certain ATC centre, this is not enough to find out what targets will be attacked and when. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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