Japanese trainer/experimental orange: suggested mixes?

[Seahawk]

Has anyone any suggestions of a decent paint match for the orange colour used by the Japanese on WW2-era training and experimental aircraft please?

I've been dusting off an old project and am no longer quite as convinced by the Humbrol gloss orange I used last time. However I'm not helped by not having any clear mental image of what the colour should look like. If possible, grateful for a match (or mix) using readily available brands like Humbrol, Xtracolor or White Ensign

Edited March 16, 2011 by Seahawk

[Seahawk]

Brain now engaged and answers found here:

http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/colorcharts/s...harts_japan.htm

Any second opinions of course still very welcome.

[Nick Millman]

Reluctant as I am to post on any subject related to colour on this forum that colour chart red-orange is just far too red. The colour specified for Navy trainers in Air Directive # 8777 of 29th December 1938 was an orange yellow, described as "tou ou shoku" (橙黄色), literally orange yellow colour. There was a further Army & Navy Central Agreement (Riku-kaigun Chuo Kyotei) on 15th September 1942 that stated "Training and experimental aircraft should be painted in yellow wherever conditions permit". The words used were "ou shoku" (黄色) literally yellow colour (but in practice an orange yellow). I can't advise the closest hobby paint but the actual IJN paint colour standard for it in Kariki 117 was C2 which is close to FS 13432. Here is an image of the actual C-series chips for it from an original copy of the Kariki 117 paint standard. And, in addition, a colour photograph showing an actual trainer and a bit of fabric from one. A lot of modellers seem to want to paint these aircraft in colours similar to the tail on the biplane and it has become something of a modelling myth.

PS Hope this is not too anal for Britmodeller. Of course if you want to paint the model Red Arrows red that is fine by me.

Edited March 21, 2011 by Nick Millman

[sunshine coast]

Thank you for that info Nick ,most useful as I have a 1/48 Willow and a Claude in the stash for later in the year ....

your research is appreciated..

Regards Trevor ...

[Nick Millman]

Thanks Trevor. For Claude trainers these stills from a colour film might interest you too. As you can see they are more yellow than red-orange and the hinomaru stand out quite well.

Claude Film Still 1

Claude Film Still 2

Claude Film Still 3

[Seahawk]

Many thanks, Nick. I was hoping you might chip in. You've confirmed my suspicions: my current shade is far too red. Out with the Modelstrip!

[Lothian man]

"Hope this is not too anal for Britmodeller. Of course if you want to paint the model Red Arrows red that is fine by me."

If that's anal, I'm a proctologist! Very interesting to see that photographic evidence (for what it is worth for old images, but those were interesting), especially as this seems yellower than the Hasegawa or Tamiya box top paintings for things like prototype Seirans and Renzans.

There is that chap in New Zealand who did a series of self-published books, Colour Comment or something like that. I can't find my own copy at the moment of the two dealing with Japanese colours, but they might be worth a look.

[Test Graham]

Do you mean the Australian, Ian Baker?

[Lothian man]

Do you mean the Australian, Ian Baker?

Yes, thanks!

[Mike S]

Using Nick' excellent respose to my question to him some years ago I came up with these mixes for the orange-yellow in question.

Humbrol:- 12 pts H134 + 1 pt H174 or 10 pts Revell 310 + 1 pt H154. A touch of H64 reduces the intensity on a model.

[Seahawk]

Using Nick' excellent respose to my question to him some years ago I came up with these mixes for the orange-yellow in question.

Humbrol:- 12 pts H134 + 1 pt H174 or 10 pts Revell 310 + 1 pt H154. A touch of H64 reduces the intensity on a model.

Thanks very much. Will give that a try - once I've stripped off all that deep orange!

[John Aero]

The biplane by the way is a Navy type 3, probably a K2Y2. This was a modernised Avro 504.

John

[Nick Millman]

Using Nick' excellent respose to my question to him some years ago I came up with these mixes for the orange-yellow in question.

Humbrol:- 12 pts H134 + 1 pt H174 or 10 pts Revell 310 + 1 pt H154. A touch of H64 reduces the intensity on a model.

Hi Mike

Thanks. I think you may mean H154 (Insignia Yellow) rather than H134?

Regards

Nick

[English Electric]

This is a very helpful thread - I have a 'Rita' to paint in this colour at some point, and I've been wondering what the exact match was! Brilliant stuff...

C

[John @ WEM]

Thank you, Nick. In response to a number of requests--and thanks to Nick's information herein--we are adding Trainer Yellow-Orange to our line of Japanese aircraft colours in our Colourcoats enamels. It will be item ACJ 21, and should be available in a few weeks.

[Nick Millman]

Thanks for mentioning it John and that is good news. Btw I'm working slowly through Japanese Army colour standards and hobby paints and your ACJ05 Nakajima Army Green is a near perfect match for IJAAF colour standard # 21 midori iro (green colour) one of the most commonly used camouflage greens for Army aircraft and often referred to in Japanese sources as "deep green". It is by far the closest out of the tin/bottle match I have so far found in any popular range of paints.

[John @ WEM]

Thanks, Nick--noted.

[ReccePhreak]

This information will be quite helpful, when I finally get started on my "experimental" photo-reconnaissance Zero. I just have to figure out what "unit" markings I will need to apply.

Larry

[FAAMAN]

Just found this thread linked from another here. This will be very useful for me as I've a "Japanese Navy Type 93 Advanced Trainer (Willow) from Nitto kit No. 391 in 1:32nd to do.

A replacement for a destroyed model.

Great post from long ago.

[JWM]

Was it the same yellow-orange as used for marks painted on part of leading edge fast identification? And for squadron insignia sometimes? 

Please note on photo the prop tip band is of different shade of yellow.

Regards

J-W

[Greenshirt]

6 hours ago, JWM said:

Was it the same yellow-orange as used for marks painted on part of leading edge fast identification? And for squadron insignia sometimes? 

 

As I understand it, yes for identification. I’m not so sure regarding squadron markings, but frankly I would use a single yellow unlessI had a photo that shows the yellows as different, such as the one you provided. 

[RT Nevada]

I used a mix of tamiya orange and taniya yellow when I did an A7M1 a few months ago. I think I mixed it 70ish% orange to 30% percent yellow but I can’t quite remember. I think next time I paint a trainer or experimental Japanese aircraft I’m going to try some of Mr. color 58. It’s an orange yellow color specific for Japanese aircraft and looks quite nice. Not too orange, not too yellow.