Pembroke C.1 'Spy Games'

[AjD]

Chaps,

Would anyone happen to know where I can track down some photos of the camera fit installed on to some of the RAFG Comms Sqn/60 Sqn Pembrokes at Wildenrath during the 1970s?

I believe it was XF799, XL953 and XL954 which received the kit and trying to track down both some external shots of the underside and/or some internal photos too. I may be wrong but I thought XL954 was still in private hands in Coventry and wondered if it still had any of these bits and bobs fitted...

Can anyone help?

Thank you.

Andy

[Seahawk]

Don't know how much help it will be to you but one of the aviation magazines has an article on these covert recce ops by 60 Sq this very month. I think it's Flypast but wouldn't swear to it. Don't recall any pics of the interesting bits (otherwise I would have bought the magazine) but there may be some snippets of use to you: quoting serials seems pretty likely. If you are working with the Special Hobby special issue ("Cold War Spy" or some such), I would expect that to be very accurate as one of the people providing reference material to MPM (sorry forgotten his name now) had excellent access to relevant info.

[AjD]

Don't know how much help it will be to you but one of the aviation magazines has an article on these covert recce ops by 60 Sq this very month. I think it's Flypast but wouldn't swear to it. Don't recall any pics of the interesting bits (otherwise I would have bought the magazine) but there may be some snippets of use to you: quoting serials seems pretty likely. If you are working with the Special Hobby special issue ("Cold War Spy" or some such), I would expect that to be very accurate as one of the people providing reference material to MPM (sorry forgotten his name now) had excellent access to relevant info.

It was 'Aircraft' (ex 'Aircraft Illustrated') and I thoroughly enjoyed it! I've put it down somewhere and I'm on the hunt now (doh!) but it doesn't solve this problem as you're right, no photos of the bits I'm interested in.

Thanks anyway!

[keefr22]

Chaps,

Would anyone happen to know where I can track down some photos of the camera fit installed on to some of the RAFG Comms Sqn/60 Sqn Pembrokes at Wildenrath during the 1970s?

I believe it was XF799, XL953 and XL954 which received the kit and trying to track down both some external shots of the underside and/or some internal photos too. I may be wrong but I thought XL954 was still in private hands in Coventry and wondered if it still had any of these bits and bobs fitted...

Can anyone help?

Thank you.

Andy

I asked the same question on Hyperscale a few years back. I don't remember any photo's turning up, but I did get a very interesting reply from John Adams of Aeroclub. I did save his reply, but after having major PC problems last week, I did a very hasty 'back-up' over the last few days & as yet can't find where I've put it.....!!

You should be able to search Pembroke on HS to find it, but I don't usually have much success with that function either.

I'll come back to you if I can find it.....

Keef

[keefr22]

This is the reply that John posted on Hyperscale. It was actually as a response to a follow up post in which I'd asked a further question regarding the oblique camera installation that someone had replied to my original request that had apparently appeared the day before. I say apparently, as there now seems to be no trace of that earlier thread.....And there was no later reply by the other respondent.

Anyway, here's what John said;

"I do have a photo of the camera installation in the Prince which must be the same layout as the Pembroke, unfortunatly it just will not scan. Basically the two cameras were in line on the centre line and stood about two foot above the floor. When flown as a survey aircraft only two seats are visible in the cabin. Both are on the Stbd side with the camera control panel operator facing for'ard behind the cockpit bulk head and a second for'ard facing seat in the stbd forth seat position. I can't comment on the obliques , but I am sure Chris can."

HTH

Keef

[Colin S-K]

Chaps,

Would anyone happen to know where I can track down some photos of the camera fit installed on to some of the RAFG Comms Sqn/60 Sqn Pembrokes at Wildenrath during the 1970s?

I believe it was XF799, XL953 and XL954 which received the kit and trying to track down both some external shots of the underside and/or some internal photos too. I may be wrong but I thought XL954 was still in private hands in Coventry and wondered if it still had any of these bits and bobs fitted...

Can anyone help?

Thank you.

Andy

Andy,

Can help, have some photos that will be useful. Can send on CD.

Email me at,

[email protected]

Colin

[AjD]

Keef, Colin,

Thank you so much guys. I appreciate all the help and digging around you've done to track that info down. Any idea how many rows of seats there were in the Pembroke Keef?

There's an email inbound to you Colin.

Thanks again.

Andy

[Paul J]

Can't help with seating arrangement, but the article in Aircraft(ex Aircraft Illus...) states that when the aircraft parked up in Berlin in a particular way and doors were open, only the last two or three seats were visible from outside giving the impression of purely passenger carrying to 'prying eyes!!!' If you can, get a copy as it makes very interesting reading. There is also an article of the Swedish DC-3/C-47 used in SIGINT role and about how a MIg shot one of these down!!

Will this help?

Maybe you could approach Air Atlantique and ask to see inside theirs??

Edited March 13, 2011 by Paul J

[keefr22]

Keef, Colin,

Thank you so much guys. I appreciate all the help and digging around you've done to track that info down. Any idea how many rows of seats there were in the Pembroke Keef?

There's an email inbound to you Colin.

Thanks again.

Andy

Sorry Andy, what John posted is as much as I know!

Keef

[navalnut]

Andy,

I know these aircraft quite well as I was involved in exploiting the products of their operations. The aircraft involved were XF796; XF799; XL953 and XL954. Of these aircraft XF796 was not converted to the later camera fit standard (Mod 614); XF799 went to the USA; XL953 was destroyed in a hangar fire at Wildenrath in May 1980 and XL954 is extant with Air Atlantique at Coventry. Because XL954 operates under a Permit to Fly the interior is much as it was when it was disposed of from RAF service so the interior colours are accurate.

The initial camera fit was 2 x F24 mounted as a split pair with 7" lenses and 2 x F24 in Left and Right oblique positions and a single F49 survey type camera. This changed to 2 x F52 split-pair with either 14" or 20" lenses and a single Left facing F52 onlique with either a 36" or 48" lens.

In 1963 Mod 614 was introduced with three sets being produced. Two were for use on the aircraft and one was kept as a spares source. This camera fit consisted of 3-camera fan of F96 fitted with 12" lenses and 2 x F96 fitted with 48" lenses. The fan was designed to give about a 100 degree field of view. In the latter years one of the obliques was removed in the summer because of the growing weight and age of the aircraft - it happens to us all!! The cameras were mounted in a frame that was built up from the front of the aircraft. I have been unable to find any photos of the camera fit but one did exist as part of the briefing pack. I believe that these were probably destroyed when the operation ceased in 1990 because it was all still classified. As I remember it the camera fit was as follows: 2 x F96 12" at the forward camera port that were the left and right facing part of the fan. The LHS camera (looking forward) looked right and the RHS camera looked left. The vertical camera for the fan was mounted above the rear camera port. The two obliques looked through optically flat windows in the fuselage. The right facing one looked through the third window from the front on the RHS and the left facing one looked through the fourth window from the front on the LHS.

Pre-Mod 614 aircraft had flush underside camera doors but post-Mod614 aircraft had external doors.

I had the opportunity to crawl all over XL954 a few years ago and have a number of images that I can put on disc for you if you want them. Although I did give a copy to Colin S-K at Scalemodelworld last year so this may be what he is offering you.

If you want any more, please PM me and I will see what I can do to help

Yours,

Peter

[BigReg]

The former postmaster in our village was a navigator with 60 sqn and they were always having their legs pulled about their inability to navigate properly as they were always 'straying off course'. Even two years ago he was very tight lipped about the mission.

David