Spitfire PRU Green?

[Doug]

Hi All,

Have a copy of the Spitfire Story by Alfred Price, in chapter 6, High speed spies, the mark 1 reconnaissance variants, he describes the first two PRU spitfires (N3069 & N3071) as being painted "A very pale shade of duck egg green", can anyone give me an idea as to this shade?

TIA.

Doug.

[Andrew Jones]

This was Sidney Cotton's "Camotint" a very pale green shade, later standardised as Sky Type S.

[MDriskill]

If I may be forgiven an unsolicited product plug, I very highly recommend the "On Target Profile" issue devoted to Recon Spitifires, published by The Aviation Workshop. It covers the development and colors used on the early ones in terrific detail, and of course all other reconnaissance variants of the Spitfire as well. There is also an accompanying decal sheet from the same source.

Overall one of my very favorite reference books...I can hardly crack it open without a strong urge to run to the workroom and rip open a Spitfire kit!

[The wooksta V2.0]

The Ventura book on the Merlin PR Spits is also well worth the candle.

[Doug]

This was Sidney Cotton's "Camotint" a very pale green shade, later standardised as Sky Type S.

Have to say Andrew, after I had written my question I did wonder if sky could be the colour to which he was referring.

Doug.

If I may be forgiven an unsolicited product plug, I very highly recommend the "On Target Profile" issue devoted to Recon Spitifires, published by The Aviation Workshop. It covers the development and colors used on the early ones in terrific detail, and of course all other reconnaissance variants of the Spitfire as well. There is also an accompanying decal sheet from the same source.

Overall one of my very favorite reference books...I can hardly crack it open without a strong urge to run to the workroom and rip open a Spitfire kit!

The Ventura book on the Merlin PR Spits is also well worth the candle.

Thanks chaps I think I have both of these books in my collection, somewhere!!!!!

Doug.

[Edgar]

This was Sidney Cotton's "Camotint" a very pale green shade, later standardised as Sky Type S.

Remember that Cotton devised his Camotint for medium-level aircraft, like the Blenheim and his Lockheed; once the Heston flight got Spitfires, and pushed them (much) higher, it was quickly realised that a darker blue was needed, and, as we now know, P.R.U. Blue resulted.

Edgar

[Chuck1945]

Remember that Cotton devised his Camotint for medium-level aircraft, like the Blenheim and his Lockheed; once the Heston flight got Spitfires, and pushed them (much) higher, it was quickly realised that a darker blue was needed, and, as we now know, P.R.U. Blue resulted.

Edgar

I have just obtained the new revised edition (2010) printing of The Spitfire Story, and have just finished the chapter on the Spitfire PR IA-F. It is too bad the author did not add one more sentence to the paragraph on Camotint to explain that it became Sky, would have saved lots more future questions.

Between the text and photo captions Price does introduce all the PRU colors as used on those early PRU Spitfires; Camotint to start, then the move to what became PRU Blue and also the lower level PRU Pink which he describes as barely tinted white.

My only gripe so far is that the photo I thought was in the book of 16 Sqd TR Spitfire IXs that shows the camera port is no longer included. There are two phtos of 'X' from 16 Sqd though so I am still a happy camper.

[Edgar]

It is too bad the author did not add one more sentence to the paragraph on Camotint to explain that it became Sky, would have saved lots more future questions.

To be fair, he may not have known; I found the information tucked away in the last paragraph in a single letter (from the Air Ministry to the Bristol Aeroplane Company,) which is sitting in an anonymous file in the National Archives.

Edgar

[Nick Millman]

It's also "tucked away" on page 50 of Michael J F Bowyer's 'Bombing Colours 1937-1973', published by Patrick Stephens Ltd in 1973, but I expect many have either sold their copies of this "out of date" reference already or never seen it.

[Doug]

Yes, I have to say that he does call out the three main colours used on PRU spitfires, Pale Green (Sky), PRU Blue and Pink, but wasn't there also a PRU Mauve or was this another of the never really existed RAF colours?

Have to say this book is a good read if a little hard going at times and I was really happy to find a reference to the Pale Pink colouring, which he states as being "Primarily off white with a hint of red", I assume giving the very, very pale pink tint.

Anyway guys thanks for your help, if you have any comments regarding PRU Mauve I will be glad to read them.

Doug.

[Super Aereo]

PRU mauve definitely existed: it was the specified colour for the lower surfaces in the PRU (Low Flying) scheme.

See also: http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.p...&pid=385814

[Chuck1945]

It's also "tucked away" on page 50 of Michael J F Bowyer's 'Bombing Colours 1937-1973', published by Patrick Stephens Ltd in 1973, but I expect many have either sold their copies of this "out of date" reference already or never seen it.

I still have mine

[Edgar]

Anyway guys thanks for your help, if you have any comments regarding PRU Mauve I will be glad to read them.

5 parts P.R.U. Pink, 2 parts P.R.U. Blue, 1 part Identification Red; note that it totals 8 (just like the 7 + 1 OceanGrey/Mixed Grey,) which, at 8 pints to the Imperial gallon, would have been a fairly simple mix to attain.

Edgar

[sloegin57]

5 parts P.R.U. Pink, 2 parts P.R.U. Blue, 1 part Identification Red; note that it totals 8 (just like the 7 + 1 OceanGrey/Mixed Grey,) which, at 8 pints to the Imperial gallon, would have been a fairly simple mix to attain.

Edgar

OK I'll say it !:-

Gas Mark 4 ?

Got it and gone

DR

[Troy Smith]

Yes, I have to say that he does call out the three main colours used on PRU spitfires, Pale Green (Sky), PRU Blue and Pink, but wasn't there also a PRU Mauve or was this another of the never really existed RAF colours?

Have to say this book is a good read if a little hard going at times and I was really happy to find a reference to the Pale Pink colouring, which he states as being "Primarily off white with a hint of red", I assume giving the very, very pale pink tint.

Anyway guys thanks for your help, if you have any comments regarding PRU Mauve I will be glad to read them.

Doug.

Doug

PR pink, as applied to the FR IX in France. IIRC it was taken on a captured German camera loaded with colour film. Looking at the roundels it's a bit washed out, but gives a good idea of "Primarily off white with a hint of red"

Cheers

T

Edited March 3, 2011 by Troy Smith

[Edgar]

Have to say this book is a good read if a little hard going at times and I was really happy to find a reference to the Pale Pink colouring, which he states as being "Primarily off white with a hint of red", I assume giving the very, very pale pink tint.

It's so pale that, at first sight, there's no colour; it's necessary to lay the sample (yes, I have seen one) on a sheet of white paper, before the colour shows up.

Edgar

[Doug]

Makes some of those lovely candy pink spitfire models look a little stupid!!!!!!

So from your comments PRU Mauve was primarily an underside colour rather than an over all colour such as the Sky, PRU blue and "Pink"

Doug.

Edited March 3, 2011 by Doug

[Edgar]

Acording to Benson, the top colours were "standard sea camouflage," which points towards Slate Grey and Extra Dark Sea Grey, to the usual pattern, especially as they were notifying Coastal Command (this was December 1942.)

Just as an aside (since I haven't found any more information, yet,) in October 1941 502 Squadron had two Whitley "specials," one painted overall Sky, the other pink.

Edgar

Edited March 3, 2011 by Edgar

[The wooksta V2.0]

That colour photo is interesting - the aircraft on the left has five spoke wheels when I'm used to seeing IXs with 4 spoke.

Nevertheless, I managed to get a colour as close as dammit to that with one bottle Xtracrylix white and 4-5 DROPS offa cocktail stick of Xtracrylix Red Arrows Red (only acrylic red I had).

[Edgar]

5-spoke wheels remained in use until well after D-day; although not specifically "reserved" for them, the 4-spoke was intended, and mandatory, for a/c carrying bombs under the wings. The VIII & XIV already had 4-spoke, from the start.

Edgar

[Seahawk]

Just as an aside (since I haven't found any more information, yet,) in October 1941 502 Squadron had two Whitley "specials," one painted overall Sky, the other pink.

Edgar

I wonder if this was an idea they'd picked up from the Navy? From late summer 1940 until 1942 there was an RN enthusiasm for Mountbatten pink, which was a pink-grey shade. It was initially used by Mountbatten's 5th Destroyer Flotilla but was also used on cruisers, escorts and other destroyers. Camouflage experts ashore decided that after tests it conferred no advantages (if anything the oppposite) and Peter Scott, who also knew a thing or two about camouflage, commented that the only thing magical about it was the name. Maybe the RAF decided to trial something similar on an ASW aircraft.

Be it noted that this is pure speculation on my part without the slightest scrap of evidence to substantiate it.

[Test Graham]

It probably predated Mountbatten Pink, as it was one of Cotton's original ideas, being intended for low level flying around sunrise and sunset. MP was certainly considerably darker than PRU Pink.

In one book the PRU unit at St Eval is described (by a pilot passing through) as being made up of aircraft in two different colours, some dark blue and the others dirty white.