RAF Phantom FGR.2

[eng]

Have got a pair of Fujimi Phantoms, an FGR.2 and an FG.1, which I am planning to build in 111 Sqn markings. The FGR.2 only being with 111 for a short period of time in the glossy DSG/DG/LAG scheme, before it became an all-FG.1 operator (apart from a few months in 1988 I believe).

My question is were the wings ever folded on the FGR.2's on a regular basis?

I can understand the FG.1's being folded as I believe the wingfold on these aircraft was by hydraulics as they were the ex-Navy F-4K's, and I've seen pic's to back this up. I'm struggling to find any pic's to suggest that the FGR.2's were ever folded, although some online references to the FGR.2 suggest they may have been folded on occasion.

I'd like to fold the wings on my FGR.2 purely to provide a bit of contrast to the 2 builds (other than the paint scheme, the FG.1 will be a late BG/MSG/LAG machine).

Any help would be appreciated.

Eng

[AnonymousAA72]

Have got a pair of Fujimi Phantoms, an FGR.2 and an FG.1, which I am planning to build in 111 Sqn markings. The FGR.2 only being with 111 for a short period of time in the glossy DSG/DG/LAG scheme, before it became an all-FG.1 operator (apart from a few months in 1988 I believe).

My question is were the wings ever folded on the FGR.2's on a regular basis?

I can understand the FG.1's being folded as I believe the wingfold on these aircraft was by hydraulics as they were the ex-Navy F-4K's, and I've seen pic's to back this up. I'm struggling to find any pic's to suggest that the FGR.2's were ever folded, although some online references to the FGR.2 suggest they may have been folded on occasion.

I'd like to fold the wings on my FGR.2 purely to provide a bit of contrast to the 2 builds (other than the paint scheme, the FG.1 will be a late BG/MSG/LAG machine).

Any help would be appreciated.

Eng

Hi Eng,

There's good pic of a 31Sqn (I think - its certainly from RAFG anyway) FGR2 with folded wings in Dick Ward's Phantom Sqns of the RAF & RN. Interestingly one folded outer panel is a replacement....one wing has glossy R/W/B roundels and the other has toned down r/b roundels....Can't say for sure how regular it was - but I think I've seen other pic's....

Have a look through the Air Britain Photo's......you may be lucky there

Cheers

Bill

[Jennings Heilig]

I doubt the RAF would have had much reason to fold 'em except to stash 'em in a crowded hangar.

What amazes the crap out of me is the fact that the Hasegawa Phantoms have been around since 1982 (that's 29 years!!) and to date NOBODY has done a set of resin wing folds for them. Not a single one. Go figure it.

J

[oggy4624]

I remember we had a 'hangar queen' on Ascension in '88, that ate it's way through several engines while in transit to MPA (ex OCU).

The wings were definitely folded in some photos that I have , which I cannot locate at the moment.

I thought it was unusual at the time ( there was several hundred yards between it and anything else) but the lineys assured me that it was normal.

I suppose if it should work, it must work.

[Duncan B]

I don't see why the FGR2's wouldn't be folded in the hangers, pre HAS, as the FG1's were at Leuchars, saves space. Incidentally, if my memory serves me, not all the FG1's had hydraulic wing fold, I do remember being "picked" to wind up the wings with a speed brace on several occasions. I can't remember if they were from 43 or 111 now though (I worked in ASF so saw them all and the ex 892 Sqn aircraft showed signs of a harder life than 43's).

[smeds]

Do these help

http://www.airliners.net/photo/UK---Air/Mc...20c786b6aa2f228

http://www.airliners.net/photo/UK---Air/Mc...20c786b6aa2f228

http://www.airliners.net/photo/UK---Air/Mc...20c786b6aa2f228

http://www.airliners.net/photo/UK---Air/Mc...20c786b6aa2f228

smeds

[Duncan B]

Do these help

http://www.airliners.net/photo/UK---Air/Mc...20c786b6aa2f228

http://www.airliners.net/photo/UK---Air/Mc...20c786b6aa2f228

http://www.airliners.net/photo/UK---Air/Mc...20c786b6aa2f228

http://www.airliners.net/photo/UK---Air/Mc...20c786b6aa2f228

smeds

They are all FG1's of 43F Sqn but they do prove the point that the RAF did fold the wings on a regular basis.

DB

Lovely photos by the way

Edited December 29, 2010 by Duncan B

[rinty]

Have got a pair of Fujimi Phantoms, an FGR.2 and an FG.1, which I am planning to build in 111 Sqn markings. The FGR.2 only being with 111 for a short period of time in the glossy DSG/DG/LAG scheme, before it became an all-FG.1 operator (apart from a few months in 1988 I believe).

My question is were the wings ever folded on the FGR.2's on a regular basis?

I can understand the FG.1's being folded as I believe the wingfold on these aircraft was by hydraulics as they were the ex-Navy F-4K's, and I've seen pic's to back this up. I'm struggling to find any pic's to suggest that the FGR.2's were ever folded, although some online references to the FGR.2 suggest they may have been folded on occasion.

I'd like to fold the wings on my FGR.2 purely to provide a bit of contrast to the 2 builds (other than the paint scheme, the FG.1 will be a late BG/MSG/LAG machine).

Any help would be appreciated.

Eng

Hi ,

I worked on fgr2 in RAF for 4 years and we folded the wings in hangar. The switch to operate the wing fold was located in the wheel well,not in the cockpit.

[spike7451]

The was a flight safety video I remember seeing where an RAFG Toom took off without the wings being locked.IIRC,(the's an pop up indicator on the wing fold)

The Toom attempted to take off,the wings folded & the crew banged out in time before the jet ploughed in.

[Jabba]

Whilst working on FGR2 Phantoms at wonderful St Athan we would fold the wings before they were removed to be worked upon. Some of these had the hydraulics removed from them and we had to do it with muscle power, which was not quite the struggle that you would imagine. We also moved them from the hangar to the flight line with the wings folded, and I may have a photo of this so I will have a look.

[Starfighter]

When I worked on 17 squadron's FGR 2's at Bruggen in the 70's we would often manually fold the wings if the a/c was going into the hangar for servicing or at the end of the daily flying activities, as this allowed for more space, etc. As far as I remember our FGR 2,s only had manual wing folds, and I remember often standing on the wing holding the outer section while the safety locks were installed.

There are a couple of pics of 17 and 31 squadron FGR 2's with folded wings in the excellent Airdoc book on RAFG Phantoms. HTH

[eng]

Gent's, can't thank you all enough for the info supplied, it certainly answers my question.

The variation between powered wing-fold and non-powered is not as simple as the FG.1 being powered and all the FGR.2's being unpowered from some of the replies.

I went into the loft today after remembering last night I had a copy of "The Phantom Story" by A. Thornborough and P. Davies, this has a superb section on the RAF Phantoms with a few good pointers and some good appendices on differences, accidents and aircraft histories. However it wouldn't necessarily have answered my query.

I've always had a soft spot for Leuchars based aircraft from the Lightnings onwards, as my father would often detour past the Western end of the airfield on our journeys from Aberdeen to Edinburgh to visit grandparents when I was a youngster. The Phantoms particularly stick in my mind, but I've never actually built and finished a Phantom. I'm looking forward to both my Fujimi offerings!

Thanks again,

Eng

[Duncan B]

Gent's, can't thank you all enough for the info supplied, it certainly answers my question.

The variation between powered wing-fold and non-powered is not as simple as the FG.1 being powered and all the FGR.2's being unpowered from some of the replies.

I went into the loft today after remembering last night I had a copy of "The Phantom Story" by A. Thornborough and P. Davies, this has a superb section on the RAF Phantoms with a few good pointers and some good appendices on differences, accidents and aircraft histories. However it wouldn't necessarily have answered my query.

I've always had a soft spot for Leuchars based aircraft from the Lightnings onwards, as my father would often detour past the Western end of the airfield on our journeys from Aberdeen to Edinburgh to visit grandparents when I was a youngster. The Phantoms particularly stick in my mind, but I've never actually built and finished a Phantom. I'm looking forward to both my Fujimi offerings!

Thanks again,

Eng

We look forward to seeing them.

[degs]

On 56 in the 80's we folded the wings at cease flying to visual check the lugs for cracking. Some times left them up to save space parking in the hangar (pre HAS)

[degs]

Against folding wings -- Bloody heavy and not hydraulic. It took 4 people to fold/unfold them.

[Jabba]

As promised some of my photos of some of the Phantom FGR2s that I worked on at St Athan showing them with wings folded. These were taken at the flight line area where aircraft were prepped for flight and ground runs. The one that is still to receive its proper paint scheme did actually fly like this with just the minimal emergency markings, plus Ser No and roundels. The last photo also shows one of the F4J(UK)s that actually got a major servicing before the fleet was removed from service.

[spike7451]

When I worked on 17 squadron's FGR 2's at Bruggen in the 70's we would often manually fold the wings if the a/c was going into the hangar for servicing or at the end of the daily flying activities, as this allowed for more space, etc. As far as I remember our FGR 2,s only had manual wing folds, and I remember often standing on the wing holding the outer section while the safety locks were installed.

There are a couple of pics of 17 and 31 squadron FGR 2's with folded wings in the excellent Airdoc book on RAFG Phantoms. HTH

Best Sqn in RAFG!!!

[Jabba]

Against folding wings -- Bloody heavy and not hydraulic. It took 4 people to fold/unfold them.

Agree with that statement.

[Starfighter]

Best Sqn in RAFG!!!

MOST definitely! I was an armourer from 1971 - 74 . . .Great times.

[eng]

Thank's for posting the extra pic's Jabba, they are superb.

The pic's of the stripped aircraft are particularly interesting as it's not often you see them in this state. I've worked on a 737-400 once that was paint stripped (except the fin) before a maintenance input and it sure makes spotting damage and corrosion a hell of a lot easier! Shame they can't do it all the time, just too damn expensive.

On the pic of the 74 sqn 'J', whats the small door ajar, aft of the deployed RAT? Is it an auxiliary air intake similar to that on the Spey powered jet's? I've never actually noticed this before and don't know if the J79 powered jets had this or not. I think these are the first pic's I've seen with the RAT deployed on a Phantom.

Thank's again for posting the pic's, seems we have alot of Phantom and RAFG (well 17 Sqn atleast!!!) supporters on BM.

Cheer's,

Eng

[Duncan B]

Against folding wings -- Bloody heavy and not hydraulic. It took 4 people to fold/unfold them.

We must have been made of stronger stuff at Leuchars!

[rdxtnt]

On the pic of the 74 sqn 'J', whats the small door ajar, aft of the deployed RAT? Is it an auxiliary air intake similar to that on the Spey powered jet's? I've never actually noticed this before and don't know if the J79 powered jets had this or not.

Chaff and flare doors. Lot of Phixers on here these days

[C6MSD]

MOST definitely! I was an armourer from 1971 - 74 . . .Great times.

Got the lot now then - plumbers rejoice - you on 17 Phantoms, I was 17 Jags and Spike was Tonkas I believe