Upgrade sets for Tamiya Panzer II

[Jaykay]

Hi and merry Christmas folks. Got a Tamiya Panzer II Ausf F/G in my stocking and I'm wondering what I can get to go with it. I believe there is a Eduard set, but I can't find it and where would I get Fruil tracks for this?

Hope all is well,

jk

[Andy K]

Fruil do some tracks (very nice but mega expensive) but have a look at these;

link

From what I've read these track sets are getting good reviews

Eduard etch;

link

Hope this helps.

[Jaykay]

Man, Andy, that was quick and spot on. I'll order them both. My first try with PE. I've found a couple of replacement barrels too. Muchas gracias,

jk

[James Tainton]

Don't waste your money on Eduard PE for armour- it is s***e.

(I get depressed whenever I come across some in the stash, bought before I knew the difference.)

Edited December 25, 2010 by James Tainton

[Andy K]

Don't waste your money on Eduard PE for armour- it is s***e.

In what regard is it s***e? I've used Eduard stuff for ages and found it to be ok.

[James Tainton]

I don't know offhand if there is any other stuff for that specific old kit from Tamiya but try Aber or Voyager- maybe there is something there?

I have used the Voyager sets for the more recent DML Panzer II/F

http://panzerfaust.ca/ArmourWorkshop/viewt...?f=11&t=262

It may fit?

[James Tainton]

Eduard for armour is so basic and inaccurate it is sad. The thickness of the etching is so lame that it renders everything flat. Can you tell me which sets for armour you have used before. I need to have a specific set to draw examples.

Eduard maybe good for planes but for armour- it is way behind the curve.

Edited December 25, 2010 by James Tainton

[Andy K]

I've used Eduard for a fair few models, Alan Hobbies 1/35 Flakpanzer 38t (as featured in Model Military Int'l issue 3), Dragon 1/35 SdKfz 251/16 (Model Military Int'l issue 21), Trumpeter 1/35 SdKfz 7 (Model Military Int'l issue 49) to name a couple. I've also used Aber, Lionroar, and Voyager and found them all to be pretty much the same although Aber tends to be REALLY fiddly and Voyager is fiddly as well as over done. I used the Voyager set for Dragon's sFH 18 15cm Howitzer (Model Military Int'l issue 39) and ended up using kit parts because the etch was so 2 dimensional.

[James Tainton]

I've used Eduard for a fair few models, Alan Hobbies 1/35 Flakpanzer 38t (as featured in Model Military Int'l issue 3), Dragon 1/35 SdKfz 251/16 (Model Military Int'l issue 21), Trumpeter 1/35 SdKfz 7 (Model Military Int'l issue 49) to name a couple. I've also used Aber, Lionroar, and Voyager and found them all to be pretty much the same although Aber tends to be REALLY fiddly and Voyager is fiddly as well as over done. I used the Voyager set for Dragon's sFH 18 15cm Howitzer (Model Military Int'l issue 39) and ended up using kit parts because the etch was so 2 dimensional.

Fiddly verses accuracy- I guess that is a choice each has to make for themselves. In my mind fiddly is not really an issue, and even if that is true, why is fiddly a negative?

The issue is, will the replacement part from whatever PE set going to be more accurate (and therefore better) than the kit part, and if not, why bother?

I've also used Aber, Lionroar, and Voyager and found them all to be pretty much the same

I have to strongly disagree with this statement or perhaps we use different points of reference?

I think we can take these one at a time if you like but I will need the parts number of the sets to make sure I reference the exact ones you refer to.

Also just to keep in mind the set for the ancient Tamiya Panzer II/F is very very old and is not in the same era as the items you have used.

As for the 2-dimensional issues you had with the Voyager set, can you be more specific as to which parts.

Personally I totally believe that because of the limitations of the PE process often the kit parts are better.

Edited December 25, 2010 by James Tainton

[Andy K]

The fiddly aspect is a negative when teeny tiny parts fly out of the tweezers, never to be seen again. I stated that etch from different companies is pretty much the same because it basically is. How many ways can different manufacturers depict a tool clamp? I know because I've used etch sets from all of them.

Whichever way you look at it, it is all 2 dimensional flat brass. Etch IS useful for some aspects of armour detailing such as tie-downs, tool clamps, mud guards, engine grills etc but only because the real items were made from flat sheet metal anyway. The Voyager set I used for the Howitzer featured a handbrake but compared to the real thing on the real gun it was too flat and the kit item was used instead.

Obviously we both use different points of reference James.

[James Tainton]

I can't get into right now, the girl friend is over and you know I'll get in trouble if I'm on the computer talking about models, but I will lay out an argument that will show that there is a difference to the quality and therefore use/accuracy of the different PE manufactures.

I would rate them as follows

Orange Hobby

Aber

Griffon

Voyager

Lionroar

Eduard

Edited December 26, 2010 by James Tainton

[Andy K]

James, I shall look forward to seeing your side of the 'argument' however we are derailing the original reason for this thread. If we have'nt scared JayKay off altogether for his first attempt at using etch the Eduard set I gave a link to will be perfectly acceptable for the old Tamiya Panzer II.

I hope you still have fun with it JayKay!

[Jaykay]

Hi Gents and thanks for the engaging debate. Just like being at a science conference!! Andy, cheers for the message and I'm not experienced enough to know a good set from a bad one or the relative merits of each. i have ordered the Eduard set and the Bronco tracks and I'll keep you posted on how the build is progressing. Thanks guys and have a happy new year,

jk

[mireson]

James, I shall look forward to seeing your side of the 'argument' however we are derailing the original reason for this thread. If we have'nt scared JayKay off altogether for his first attempt at using etch the Eduard set I gave a link to will be perfectly acceptable for the old Tamiya Panzer II.

I hope you still have fun with it JayKay!

This I have got to see, I am an armour modeller and have been for the best part of 30 odd years, over half of that time I have been using `Brass` etch.

Yes there are some things you cannot do with etch that need to have a thickness to it, but you must use Clyno `super` glue to stick etch , so what I normally do is put a layer oif glue onto the brass bit, and what do you have thickness!!!.

I am the first one to say that I do not cover a kit in etch just for the sake of it, there is not enough jhours in the day, so I am picky as to where I use etch

But to say its S***E is rubbish , all I can say is you must be using some pretty bad etch, Andy Im on your side here.

IMHO

Eduard etch is very good, its also avalaible, cheap and cheerfull, tool clamps are great, I can even make em work, this does what it says on the tin.

Aber I find very nice because its made from a very thin aliuminum, not brass, its very good, easy to use.

Voyager is exellent etch, but a bit much for me, etch for etch sake , and very expensive.

Dragon etch is ok, somtimes a bit on the thick side to bend, but great engine grills in thier kits, who needs after market etch when this stuff is in the kit.

Verlinden etch is more like hard steel, very hard to bend, stick, or work with, dont like it one bit.

Show Modelling etch sets, if you can get them, get them, very good, exellent detail, great to use.

Yes its fiddly to use, the only person who can say whether it enhances the model is you, you must way up the accuracy, detail, time to fit, against am I going to cover it in mud, can you really see it, does it do what it is supposed to do on the real vehicle, and most importantly DO I LIKE THE LOOK OF IT

Jaykay,

Have fun mate, when it works, its great keep us informed

James, I look forward to seeing the proof of yopur argument

Malc.

[Jaykay]

Will do gents and thanks again,

jk

[stevepni]

IMHO

Verlinden etch is more like hard steel, very hard to bend, stick, or work with, dont like it one bit.

Malc.

Reading this thread 'debate' with great interest as I was about to buy the Verlinden resin/etch engine set for my Tiger 1; never having used etch before am I wasting my money then? Or is there a set from another supplier that's easier to work with?

All suggestions appreciated!

[Andy K]

I don't know much about Verlinden stuff but if the etch supplied is stiff and hard to work with, you can anneal it over a gas cooker flame then cool it with cold water. I've had to do this with Trumpeter etch as supplied in thier kits. Just be careful not to melt the stuff though.

I hope this helps!

[mireson]

Reading this thread 'debate' with great interest as I was about to buy the Verlinden resin/etch engine set for my Tiger 1; never having used etch before am I wasting my money then? Or is there a set from another supplier that's easier to work with?

All suggestions appreciated!

Hi steve,

yes its very stiff, but Andy below has said you can anneal it, over a gas cooker flame, be very carefull, it gets very hot very quickly, and I have lost count of the amount of etch I have melted (-: over the years.

May I suggest getting the Verlinden engine which is very nice, have a look at the brass bits and see if you can replicate them in plastic card, or if I remember correctly, Lion Roar do German engine sets, very, very nice accurate and easy to use, and about the same price bracket as Verlinden.

Cheers mate, and keep us posted,

Malc.

[stevepni]

Yes I had wondered about buying the Verlinden set and replicating the engine compartment in plastic card instead of the etch.

I'll have a look for the Lion Roar item first I think.

Thanks for the help.

[James Tainton]

Okay I can see that this may be a waste of time as the opinions are firmly entrenched. And that's okay, cause it's not my money! so buy what ever you like. I know from my rather extensive use and exposure to the different manufactures products Eduard is way down on my list!

Right now I'm pretty busy building stuff. Perhaps I will revisit this some time in the future.

Aber I find very nice because its made from a very thin aliuminum, not brass,

mireson- to say Aber stuff is aluminum - where do you get this information!

But to say its S***E is rubbish , all I can say is you must be using some pretty bad etch, Andy Im on your side here.

My comments refer only to Eduard, hay ho -it's your money.

Verlinden stuff is rated down with Eduard- I would not buy it as a general rule. The older engine compartment sets are not accurate. Their figures are over sized as well.

However having said that there is a good, more recent set that is good for the Tiger I

Item number 2300

http://store.spruebrothers.com/135-verlind...300-p1621.aspxv

[Andy K]

James, I would genuinely like to know why you think Eduard is that bad so opinions are not firmly entrenched as you say. You're the one that stated Eduard is s***e but gave no reason.

I even agree with you about Verlinden figures

[James Tainton]

James, I would genuinely like to know why you think Eduard is that bad so opinions are not firmly entrenched as you say. You're the one that stated Eduard is s***e but gave no reason.

I even agree with you about Verlinden figures

Andy from my experience it is not accurate and clumsy in how the pieces are expected to improve on the kit parts.

To demonstrate this I would need to draw visual examples and I am sort of busy having fun putting on finishing touches to some projects and don't want to use my precious Christmas break on this today, but I will try to get in the mood for a thorough examination in the future, perhaps in the next few days or so...(in a separate thread)

I just don't want to get into a big kerfuffle over it- I did not mean to start a fight or anything, or create any animosity, just wanted to express my honestly felt opinion on Eduard stuff to help an fellow modeller save money and disappointment.

Some of my best days are however, the ones where I keep my opinions to myself.

Edited December 29, 2010 by James Tainton

[Andy K]

LOL nobody is getting into any animosity about it, just curious. Its your opinion its no good and to me its ok.

[mireson]

Andy from my experience it is not accurate and clumsy in how the pieces are expected to improve on the kit parts.

To demonstrate this I would need to draw visual examples and I am sort of busy having fun putting on finishing touches to some projects and don't want to use my precious Christmas break on this today, but I will try to get in the mood for a thorough examination in the future, perhaps in the next few days or so...(in a separate thread)

I just don't want to get into a big kerfuffle over it- I did not mean to start a fight or anything, or create any animosity, just wanted to express my honestly felt opinion on Eduard stuff to help an fellow modeller save money and disappointment.

Some of my best days are however, the ones where I keep my opinions to myself.

I agree with you totally about time, and even the Verlinden figures being too big, no animosity was meant Im sorry if I offended anybody, so lets just say as far as etch is concerned, its up to the individual to use what they like, and not what they dislike.

End Ex,

malc.

[James Tainton]

Just received this email from Aber this morning, in response to a question I sent them as I was curious if mireson was right with this statement,

Aber I find very nice because its made from a very thin aliuminum, not brass, its very good, easy to use.

It seems that his information is incorrect on what Aber makes their PE with. Only posting this for clarity for others, not to embarrass anyone.

Dear James,

Our staff made with brass and made with aluminum.

Yellow it is brass but white it is aluminum.(barrels)

However PE sets part made with brass (yellow),and part made with new silver.

Best regards,

ABER