Montex Mask Technique

[dr_gn]

Hello,

I'm looking for a bit of advice on how to use Montex masks for the German crosses on a Bf109.

Do I:

Put the outline mask on first, and guestimate and spray the white bits, then mask the white bits and spray the remaining areas black?

or:

Something else?

Advice much appreciated.

Cheers.

[TonyT]

Montex Mask Technique, errr...what now?

Take something for your stutter???

[dr_gn]

Take something for your stutter???

Damn computers!

[TonyT]

[spitfire]

Be careful, I airbrushed a US plain blue and white star and got it wrong, I airbrushed a white disc first, after this I masked out the star and did the blue, When I de masked the white showed on the edges of the marking.

I would work it so that I would airbrush white on the white bits and black on the black bits only.

Cheers

Den

[Notdoneyet]

Hello,

I'm looking for a bit of advice on how to use Montex masks for the German crosses on a Bf109.

Do I:

Put the outline mask on first, and guestimate and spray the white bits, then mask the white bits and spray the remaining areas black?

or:

Something else?

Advice much appreciated.

Cheers.

dr_gn,

Something else ...............

Assuming you have already sprayed the camo colours :-

1. Put the whole cross mask including outline on the model
   
2. Carefully remove the white elements and return them to the backing sheet (they will be required later)
   
3. Spray the white
   
4. When the white is dry carefully reapply the white mask element and then remove the black mask element from the model
   
5. Spray the black
   
6. Remove masking when black is dry
   

If you have not sprayed the camo colours:-

1. Spray whole area for cross white
   
2. Put the whole cross mask including outline on the model when the white is dry
   
3. Carefully remove the black and return to the backing sheet (they will be required later)
   
4. Spray the black
   
5. When the black is dry carefully reapply the black mask element and then remove the outline mask element from the model leaving the black and white elements of the cross masked
   
6. Spray the camo
   
7. Remove masking when camo is dry to reveal the crosses
   

HTH,

Ian

Edited October 27, 2010 by Notdoneyet

[dr_gn]

dr_gn,

Something else ...............

Assuming you have already sprayed the camo colours :-

1. Put the whole cross mask including outline on the model
   
2. Carefully remove the white elements and return them to the backing sheet (they will be required later)
   
3. Spray the white
   
4. When the white is dry carefully reapply the white mask element and then remove the black mask element from the model
   
5. Spray the black
   
6. Remove masking when black is dry
   

If you have not sprayed the camo colours:-

1. Spray whole area for cross white
   
2. Put the whole cross mask including outline on the model when the white is dry
   
3. Carefully remove the black and return to the backing sheet (they will be required later)
   
4. Spray the black
   
5. When the black is dry carefully reapply the black mask element and then remove the outline mask element from the model leaving the black and white elements of the cross masked
   
6. Spray the camo
   
7. Remove masking when camo is dry to reveal the crosses
   

HTH,

Ian

Ian,

Thanks. The camo will be already on.

Isn't your method more onerous in that you have to replace the white bits precisely from where you removed them, otherwise you'd get a 'shadow'?

Obviously not saying it's the wrong way to do it - I wouldn't know - but what is the theory behind this as opposed to spraying a background and then applying the mask?

[dr_gn]

Be careful, I airbrushed a US plain blue and white star and got it wrong, I airbrushed a white disc first, after this I masked out the star and did the blue, When I de masked the white showed on the edges of the marking.

I would work it so that I would airbrush white on the white bits and black on the black bits only.

Cheers

Den

Thanks Den,

I don't understand...presumably the white disc was applied by spraying white onto a plain circular mask, then in addition to the circular mask, you applied the star mask and sprayed blue, then you removed all masking?

How did any white show around the edge assuming you'd fully sparayed the blue over the entire mask?

This is turning out to be as complicated as I feared!

[Notdoneyet]

Ian,

Thanks. The camo will be already on.

Isn't your method more onerous in that you have to replace the white bits precisely from where you removed them, otherwise you'd get a 'shadow'?

Obviously not saying it's the wrong way to do it - I wouldn't know - but what is the theory behind this as opposed to spraying a background and then applying the mask?

dr_gn,

The mask elements in place on the model act as locators for the elements being replaced back on the model so they can be accurately and precisely repositioned back where they came from. This accurate repositioning avoids "shadows". I can post some pictures for you if my description isn't clear.

HTH,

Ian

[spitfire]

This was the end result, I removed the insides of the star and circle, airbrushed white, so that I had a white circle then replaced the star mask and sprayed the blue. The result was the white showing through on the edges.

Cheers

Den

Edited October 27, 2010 by spitfire

[dr_gn]

dr_gn,

The mask elements in place on the model act as locators for the elements being replaced back on the model so they can be accurately and precisely repositioned back where they came from. This accurate repositioning avoids "shadows". I can post some pictures for you if my description isn't clear.

HTH,

Ian

Ian,

OK, I think your description is clear, but I don't see how you can possibly get shadows on a two colour symbol by 'my' method, since you're effectively only masking once. With your method, you're effectively masking twice, and it requires the precise relocation of a mask. I realise that the risk of this is reduced by the template, but not eliminated: don't you risk getting the masks misaligned by at least the width of the cuts?

[dr_gn]

This was the end result, I removed the insides of the star and circle, airbrushed white, so that I had a white circle then replaced the star mask and sprayed the blue. The result was the white showing through on the edges.

Cheers

Den

Den,

Strange. So is that the 'sandwiched' white paint showing when looking 'edge on', or is it a definite white rim when looking directly at the surface??

Cheers

[spitfire]

It was a sandwich, really annoying as usually I get Mal from Miracle Paint masks to make my masks and his instructions are idiot proof, the Montex Masks came without instructions.

Cheers

Den

[dr_gn]

It was a sandwich, really annoying as usually I get Mal from Miracle Paint masks to make my masks and his instructions are idiot proof, the Montex Masks came without instructions.

Cheers

Den

Ah haaaaaaa, hence Ian's version of the instructions: that's what stops the sandwich effect?

Good job I asked - all clear now. Thanks Den and Ian.

[Notdoneyet]

Ian,

OK, I think your description is clear, but I don't see how you can possibly get shadows on a two colour symbol by 'my' method, since you're effectively only masking once. With your method, you're effectively masking twice, and it requires the precise relocation of a mask. I realise that the risk of this is reduced by the template, but not eliminated: don't you risk getting the masks misaligned by at least the width of the cuts?

dr_gn,

If I understand your method correctly, you will be trying to accurately place an L-shaped white mask element in place with only the outer mask outline as a positioning guide. This could lead to the white element being misaligned resulting in a skewed, lopsided cross. The method I outlined will prevent this by precicely locating the L-shaped element as placing the L-shaped element back in the position from which it came on the model eliminates the risk of misalignment. You can see and feel the raised edge if the element is not located properly.

HTH,

Ian

[dr_gn]

dr_gn,

If I understand your method correctly, you will be trying to accurately place an L-shaped white mask element in place with only the outer mask outline as a positioning guide. This could lead to the white element being misaligned resulting in a skewed, lopsided cross. The method I outlined will prevent this by precicely locating the L-shaped element as placing the L-shaped element back in the position from which it came on the model eliminates the risk of misalignment. You can see and feel the raised edge if the element is not located properly.

HTH,

Ian

Not quite: I intended to replace the central cross after the white had dried, then place the l shapes around it, before removing it.

This wouldn't have prevented the sandwich effect though: your method appears to avoid layering the paint, it relies on getting it edge to edge.

ETA: This isn't how the Montex website explains how to do it though. Confused again now...

Edited October 27, 2010 by dr_gn

[Notdoneyet]

<SNIP>

This wouldn't have prevented the sandwich effect though: your method appears to avoid layering the paint, it relies on getting it edge to edge.

ETA: This isn't how the Montex website explains how to do it though. Confused again now...

dr_gn,

Ah I understand. Yup, "my" method will prevent the "sandwich effect" - I've never had undesirable outlines such as in Den's example in the years I've used the method I described. It has given perfect results every time.

HTH,

Ian

[dr_gn]

dr_gn,

Ah I understand. Yup, "my" method will prevent the "sandwich effect" - I've never had undesirable outlines such as in Den's example in the years I've used the method I described. It has given perfect results every time.

HTH,

Ian

And I guess I'll be able to apply the main crosses first, in order to get them orientated exactly how I want them, before adding the borders and inner masks?

[Notdoneyet]

And I guess I'll be able to apply the main crosses first, in order to get them orientated exactly how I want them, before adding the borders and inner masks?

dr_gn,

No! Apply a piece of transfer vinyl over the top of the entire cross mask on the backing sheet, then lift the whole mask off the sheet and position on the model. Once positioned remove the transfer vinyl from the top of the mask, burnish the mask down with a cotton bud then remove the white elements and proceed as I described in my first post.

HTH,

Ian

[dr_gn]

dr_gn,

No! Apply a piece of transfer vinyl over the top of the entire cross mask on the backing sheet, then lift the whole mask off the sheet and position on the model. Once positioned remove the transfer vinyl from the top of the mask, burnish the mask down with a cotton bud then remove the white elements and proceed as I described in my first post.

HTH,

Ian

How do get them overall aligned correctly? You're trying to apply a cross to a wing, but what you've got is a large square sheet...how do you judge where the cross will be to an acccurate degree? I'm thinking if you put the central cross on first, you can see you got it right, and adjust if necessary?

[Notdoneyet]

How do get them overall aligned correctly? You're trying to apply a cross to a wing, but what you've got is a large square sheet...how do you judge where the cross will be to an acccurate degree? I'm thinking if you put the central cross on first, you can see you got it right, and adjust if necessary?

dr-gn,

Place a strip of masking tape on the wing and use it as an alighment guide, like this :-

HTH,

Ian

[spitfire]

Yes I use masking tape to line things up and use "blank" masking material to line things up before removing the mask "internals".

Here's a link to one of my builds doing an underwing 3 colour roundel.

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.p...20189&st=20

Cheers

Den

Edited October 27, 2010 by spitfire

[dr_gn]

Ian, Den,

That's great, Thank you both.

I'm very glad I asked now.

Cheers,

Garth.

[Notdoneyet]

Yes I use masking tape to line things up and use "blank" masking material to line things up before removing the mask "internals".

Here's a link to one of my builds doing an underwing 3 colour roundel.

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.p...20189&st=20

Cheers

Den

Den,

Yup, [Punch & Judy] That's the Way to Do it! [/Punch & Judy]

Ian

[Crankycraftsman]

Part of the problem with montex masks are that they are made of vinyl. Thus causes them to stretch when removing them and when trying to replace them they don't quite fit back were they came from. Vinyl is good for small maskes, like little letters and numbers, but for larger masks Kabuki tape ones are better, because you can use them over and over again. Maketar makes there masks in both Kabuki and vinyl.

Ron G