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Airbus A380- delivered!


roym

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I do love the "If it ain't Boeing, I ain't going!" idiocy. Makes me giggle. In my experience you buy the ticket and when you turn up at the departures lounge you board whatever happens to be parked at the bleedin' gate! Don't ever remember a ticket with a "Mark your preferred aircraft type in order from 1 to 5, we will endeavour to accomodate your wishes but no guarantee is offered, thank you for flying Bigot-Air"

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I do love the "If it ain't Boeing, I ain't going!" idiocy. Makes me giggle. In my experience you buy the ticket and when you turn up at the departures lounge you board whatever happens to be parked at the bleedin' gate! Don't ever remember a ticket with a "Mark your preferred aircraft type in order from 1 to 5, we will endeavour to accomodate your wishes but no guarantee is offered, thank you for flying Bigot-Air"

While working for the world's most hated airline in reservations I spent the better part of hour once booking internal flights in India for a businessman. While making the reservations on a variety of Indian carriers I had to check to see what sort of aircraft was operating each flight and he would only take the flight if the aircraft in question was Airbus or Boeing.If it was Russian made he wouldn't get on it.

Stephen

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I do love the "If it ain't Boeing, I ain't going!" idiocy. Makes me giggle. In my experience you buy the ticket and when you turn up at the departures lounge you board whatever happens to be parked at the bleedin' gate! Don't ever remember a ticket with a "Mark your preferred aircraft type in order from 1 to 5, we will endeavour to accomodate your wishes but no guarantee is offered, thank you for flying Bigot-Air"

Ayup all...

Hear Hear...

A lot of work by dedicated Brits and others goes into this magnificent bird. it will help the planet too. if it does that, then it deserves every help it can get. It's about time the americans realise that there's more to the world than their point of view. surely THEY if no-one else understand competition?

:shithappens: It's BETTER than yours !

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Yes I posted a bit over in ARC about the delay in the Dreamliner program vs the delay in A380 deliveries (as Jonathan noted) I don't think the delay in the Dreamliner first flight was all that much as it was only really reported in the business news over here and the resulting hit to Boeing stock when the news came out. I don't recall seeing it in any of the 'front page' news on any of the websites like this A380 delivery has created.

Sometimes though the 'if it's not Boeing then its cr*p' stuff can get a little stupid after a while. But a part of it may be from the feeling here that Airbus is a socialized company unfairly competing with a free market Boeing. If you then point out that the 707 was greatly assisted by all of Boeings military contracts going back to the B-29 (if not B-15) all the way up to the KC-135 tanker specs in the 50's that argument does not hold much water. And then you have the good old anti-French feeling, seems some over here have not read the news in that the US has the most pro-American French president in centuries right now. If Airbus was called Luftbus sometimes I wonder if some of the American airfan hate would still be thrown it's way.

Of course we could have some fun at the expense of the A400 though, will Airbus EVER get one of those things to see the light of day!

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I do love the "If it ain't Boeing, I ain't going!" idiocy. Makes me giggle. In my experience you buy the ticket and when you turn up at the departures lounge you board whatever happens to be parked at the bleedin' gate!

I do try to see if (at the travel agents stage..) if we're having to fly on a 737 - IIRC some have dicky rudder actuators that can leave the rudder on 'full lock' leading the plan to spiral out of control.....

Karl

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Gents, and in this lot, that using the term loosely :D:lol: , (hey!! wait a tic that includes me <_< ). You have to look at it logically. If [American] carriers buy the 380 that's monies out of the American coffers :hmmm:

Edited by Darkflyer
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Yes I posted a bit over in ARC about the delay in the Dreamliner program vs the delay in A380 deliveries (as Jonathan noted) I don't think the delay in the Dreamliner first flight was all that much as it was only really reported in the business news over here and the resulting hit to Boeing stock when the news came out. I don't recall seeing it in any of the 'front page' news on any of the websites like this A380 delivery has created.

Sometimes though the 'if it's not Boeing then its cr*p' stuff can get a little stupid after a while. But a part of it may be from the feeling here that Airbus is a socialized company unfairly competing with a free market Boeing. If you then point out that the 707 was greatly assisted by all of Boeings military contracts going back to the B-29 (if not B-15) all the way up to the KC-135 tanker specs in the 50's that argument does not hold much water. And then you have the good old anti-French feeling, seems some over here have not read the news in that the US has the most pro-American French president in centuries right now. If Airbus was called Luftbus sometimes I wonder if some of the American airfan hate would still be thrown it's way.

Of course we could have some fun at the expense of the A400 though, will Airbus EVER get one of those things to see the light of day!

Matt,if by socialised you mean subsidised then what about the Pentagon decision to LEASE 767's from Boeing a few months after 9/11 and convert them to tankers which would have been more expensive than buying outright. That was nothing more than corporate welfare and IIRC a few people saw the inside of a courtroom for that.

Gents, and in this lot, that using the term loosely :D:lol: , (hey!! wait a tic that includes me <_< ). You have to look at it logically. If [American] carriers buy the 380 that's monies out of the American coffers :hmmm:

Airbus have offered to build a new factory in the South if the A330 is selected as a tanker for the USAF. Free market and competition tend to be a one way street when it's USA versus Europe.

Stephen

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Yeah well try f.....lipping well flying them and then see if it's idiocy

I refer you to my signature.

PHaTNesS,

Just curious as to the basis of your statement - in your experience do you find that an Airbus is more difficult to fly than it's Boeing counterpart? If so why?

Thanks,

Ian

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Stephen,

There is alot of ill informed opinion here in the States about Europe, and one is that every European company is owned by the government who views it as a work program rather than as a profit oriented business, rightly or wrongly. Airbus is just the most visable example of this here in the States. We have gotten used to foreign cars to the point where I know alot of co-workers, friends and family who would never think of buying an American nameplate, but when it comes to airliners we had the big three, Boeing, McD and Lockheed, and prior to Airbus everyone (or nearly everyone) in the free world flew one of them, the only ones who didn't fly them were nationalized airlines subsidized by the Soviet Union into flying Il-62s and such. Today there is a viable competetor to Boeing and some of us don't like to think of Airbus doing anything better than what we can do. Nationalism can still rear it's head in funny places and a discussion about a passenger jet is just the latest. We had a similar outburst on the boards when Eurocopter won the Marine One contract over Sikorsky last year with the EH 101.

Matt

P.S. I still think from what I have read the Airbus USAF tanker offer is the better deal than the Boeing one coupled with the ability to build a new aircraft factory here in the States (the Carolinas if I recall right) is a good deal.

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PHaTNesS,

Just curious as to the basis of your statement - in your experience do you find that an Airbus is more difficult to fly than it's Boeing counterpart? If so why?

Thanks,

Ian

It's not a question of difficulty, it's the flying logic applied to the whole system. Comparing like for like, it's easy to see why many pilots prefer the Boeing system. I would say most pilots will fall into the Boeing or Airbus camp based on their previous type. If you went from say the B737 (an old, rickety but very flyable aeroplane with 60s technology) to an A320 (old, rickety but unflyable aeroplane blessed with 80s technology) you would probably overlook the Airbus' bizarre property of taking you out of the flying operation in favour of the ease of operating the automatics and navigation suite.

Going from the A320 to the B777 (90s technology) is a trip into a whole new world of flying. The technology is slightly better on the B777, but the whole flying method incorporated by Boeing is infinitely better for the pilot. It is fly by wire, but the pilot can override the plane, whereas Scarebus is the other way round. The electronic checklist is more intuitive and saves a lot of time and effort and mistakes in non-normal situations. The electrical load management is safer and more simplified (probably owing to being built from the bottom up as an ETOPS aircraft).

In addition, Boeing's preferred engine options are way better than Scarebus - they didn't get it right until the A340-600 with RR Trent 500s. Up to then customers had to put up with planes powered by Pifco hairdryers as they are more eco-friendly, and the rest of the Boeing operators had to sit frustratedly behind IAE-powered A320s struggling to make 1000ft/min above 25000 feet.

Overall, I trust Boeing to make a pilot's aeroplane which the lowest common denominator of pilot can safely operate. I trust Airbus to make an engineering marvel that would make me a bored and complacent spectator, or worse dazed and confused. I would say the most common thing heard on Airbus flight recorders if you checked would be "what's it doing now?"

Edited by PHaTNesS
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<snip>

I would say the most common thing heard on Airbus flight recorders if you checked would be "what's it doing now?"

Interesting & informed insight... I've left the best bit in, which made me chuckle :D

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Gonna chime in here real quick fellas.....

Having flown on Southwest Airlines on a 737-400 to Vegas and an A320 from US Airways returning this past weekend my comments are from a passenger standpoint only.....

The 737 is MUCH quieter in the cabin with now grinding of doors and flap jacks like on the Airbus. The Airbus was roomier and I didnt have to bend nearly in half to see out of the windows. The air vents in the Bus drove me nuts because it was intermittent while on the ground. The 737 was cold and strong.

Overall I would favorably compare both of them as the aircraft and the pilots both got my bride and I to and from our destinations in realtive comfort and I am here to type this :)

Any landing you can walk away from is a good one right??

As far as the A380 and the Dreamliner.....I want to fly on both of them!!

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I think 'phatness' comment that pilots fall into either the Airbus or Boeing camp is very accurate.

Quite different philosophies a few years ago. Much closer now that Boering is slowly coming t o true 'fly by wire' after years of sticking to good old trusty (hmm) hydraulics.

Both have benefits & drawbacks. A lot of the early Airbus resistance from the 'Boeing forever' group was due to not understanding the philosophy - the Mulheim crash being a classic of its kind - the driver's failure to understand the implications of what he was demanding. Not surprising - no doubt could have been more clearly and forcefully explained by the designers and engineers. Worrying

Boeing's reluctance to admit there was a rudder actuator hiccup, let's say, on the 737 was equally worrying. Deliberate blinkers? I hope not.

Pilots do develop favourites - and are sometime disappointingly quick to believe crew room gossip, rather than the facts in the manuals ! Normal human tendency, alas.

Two good aircraft companies with very different philosophies - that's got to be good overall. To say 'If it aint XXX I ain't going' is daft and illogical. I'm with Mike R - I'll be delighted to try both. Mind you , with older Russian aeroplanes serviced in more dubious parts of the world, that's another story..... I still get the shudders thinking of some of those. Crude, strong & they needed to be.

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