1/32 Hunter question

[Brett Gibson]

Hi all again,

I'm looking at an upgrade for my 32 scale Hunter. I have seen the True details cockpit for the F.6. Can I use this for an FGA.9 version.

Also are there any other upgades, I should look at to fix any short falls, if any on the Hunter.

Cheers,

Brett

[Iain Ogilvie]

The F6 'pit should be fine in the 9 - IIRC there are only minor changes (and no more than there are between aeroplanes of the same mark at different MOD states). IIRC the Eduard etch sets include alternative main panels for the instruments - so I had one fr each of mine.

If building the 9 kit - the ailerons are incorrect in that they taper - they fixed this on the F Mk 6 kit to a constant chord.

Still finishing my pair - but can confirm they're a nice build! Linky

I may try and get hold of a couple of sets of Aeroclub metal gear legs as I'm told the kit ones are marginal strength-wise.

Iain

Edited September 14, 2010 by Iain (32SIG)

[Trubbie]

Hi all again,

I'm looking at an upgrade for my 32 scale Hunter. I have seen the True details cockpit for the F.6. Can I use this for an FGA.9 version.

Also are there any other upgades, I should look at to fix any short falls, if any on the Hunter.

Cheers,

Brett

Brett,

The leading edge extensions are about 4mm too short, apparently ( at least I hope they are, because I've just corrected mine!). They should extend further inboard.

When you've changed the aileron hinge line, don't forget to change the appropriate, adjacent panel lines.

Trubbie.

[Iain Ogilvie]

Brett,

The leading edge extensions are about 4mm too short, apparently ( at least I hope they are, because I've just corrected mine!).

You sure?

I've only seen that mentioned in one online article - and I'm really not convinced there's anything wrong.

Will double-check this evening...

Iain

[Tony Whittingham]

The F6 'pit should be fine in the 9 - IIRC there are only minor changes (and no more than there are between aeroplanes of the same mark at different MOD states). IIRC the Eduard etch sets include alternative main panels for the instruments - so I had one fr each of mine.

If building the 9 kit - the ailerons are incorrect in that they taper - they fixed this on the F Mk 6 kit to a constant chord.

Still finishing my pair - but can confirm they're a nice build! Linky

I may try and get hold of a couple of sets of Aeroclub metal gear legs as I'm told the kit ones are marginal strength-wise.

Iain

Hi Ian,

I have found a fix for the U/C legs, which involves the moulding pips attached to the nosewheel doors.

Firstly(IMHO) the lower "d" doors are too far down the legs. If one cements a 1.5 mm slice of the moulding pips 2 MM lower than the lower locating hole in the "d" door and drills a hole in this to accept the lowest locating pin on the leg, as well as drilling a corresponding hole in the door to accept the upper locating pin, then the door will be in the right location when glued on.

The happy outcome of this is to stiffen the lower part of the U/C leg, so it does not toe in, and the door is vertical when viewed from the front. No need to resort to metal ever since I discovered this fix.

Have a look at my Belgian Hunter, as an example.

Hope this helps

Edited September 14, 2010 by Tony Whittingham

[Trubbie]

You sure?

I've only seen that mentioned in one online article - and I'm really not convinced there's anything wrong.

Will double-check this evening...

Iain

There are very few things of which I am certain and this isn't one of them.

You haven't got one on the lawn, have you? If you have, that would be a great help as there are a few other things about which I am equally uncertain.

Trubbie

[Iain Ogilvie]

Tony - thanks for the top tip - sounds like a plan!

Trubbie - wish I did have one on the lawn - nieghbours might not approve though!

Have dug my books out - and compared with Meinderts' article here - Meindert adds the 4mm dog tooth extension.

Extending the dog tooth appears to lead to it being almost in line with the aileron edge. Looking at photos this is definately not the case - and I'm still inclined to agree with Revell:

I suspect there are some drawings out there that show more of an alignment - and possibly some confusion from the old trainer scheme (assumption the red demarcation runs dog tooth to elevator?)

From http://www.cavok-aviation-photos.net/Volkel07.html

From http://www.airshows.org.uk

Thoughts anyone?

I may try some measurement to confirm - but I'd rather take a photo over a line drawing any day

Iain

Edited September 14, 2010 by Iain (32SIG)

[Trubbie]

Tony - thanks for the top tip - sounds like a plan!

Trubbie - wish I did have one on the lawn - nieghbours might not approve though!

Have dug my books out - and compared with Meinderts' article here - Meindert adds the 4mm dog tooth extension.

Extending the dog tooth appears to lead to it being almost in line with the aileron edge. Looking at photos this is definately not the case - and I'm still inclined to agree with Revell:

I suspect there are some drawings out there that show more of an alignment - and possibly some confusion from the old trainer scheme (assumption the red demarcation runs dog tooth to elevator?)

From http://www.cavok-aviation-photos.net/Volkel07.html

From http://www.airshows.org.uk

Thoughts anyone?

I may try some measurement to confirm - but I'd rather take a photo over a line drawing any day

Iain

Your photographs certainly show more a 'mis-alignment' than does the completed model.

Luckily, my 'corected' parts have still to be set in place, so a reversion is easily acheived.

The Modellers Data File mentions a 2mm shortfall ......decision time.

I wonder where my nearest Hunter is?

Trubbie

[Iain Ogilvie]

Hiya Trubbie,

Does the Modellers Datafile use the Caruana drawings?

If so - I have a set of these from Scale Aviation Modeller in front of me and the relationship between dog tooth position and aileron edge looks wrong to me - too close. Did the writer compare to those drawings and come to the 2mm conclusion?

Iain

[TheModeller]

I don't think the Caruana drawings differ all that much from those in the Warpaint Hunter volume, Howleys drawings also show the dog-tooth aligned with the inner edge of the aileron, which I don't think is right looking at the many pictures I have. If anything the Revell parts seem to match the Howley drawings almost exactly, if thats the case then I get the impression that the Revell dog-tooth inserts are actually too long, not too short!

I think there are 2 Hunters at the FAST museum at Farnboro' a two-seater (Hecate) and there was a Swiss fighter being cleaned up and repainted some time ago. I'm headed to the IPMS Farnboro' show on Saturday so if I have time I'll try to drop in with a camera and a measuring stick and see if I can work out anything more.

To be honest I'm surprised by this, I never noticed the matter before but now I've started looking there seems to be something odd about the layout, still, the only reliable way to know for sure is to actually go and look and measure the real thing, if I can get close enough!

[StephenMG]

Does the Modellers Datafile use the Caruana drawings?

No it doesn't. The Modeller's Datafile drawings were brand new and commissioned specifically for that book. I know this for certain as 'twas me wot drew them!

I put a lot of effort in to them and used my own Hunter cockpit section and collection of original manuals, drawings etc. and other airframe parts as reference material, so I'm pretty confident of their accuracy.

Regarding the dog-tooth position, I recall a slight discrepancy with the Revell kits (seems a long time ago so can't remember the details now!) but it wasn't too far out.

Yes, the Caruana and Howley drawings are very similar and exhibit the exact same mistakes. Funny that.

Cheers,

Mark

Edited September 15, 2010 by StephenMG

[Iain Ogilvie]

Thanks for clarification Mark - don't have that book so wasn't sure!

Iain

[StephenMG]

don't have that book so wasn't sure!

What?! Get one, it's fab!!!

[Trubbie]

Hiya Trubbie,

Does the Modellers Datafile use the Caruana drawings?

If so - I have a set of these from Scale Aviation Modeller in front of me and the relationship between dog tooth position and aileron edge looks wrong to me - too close. Did the writer compare to those drawings and come to the 2mm conclusion?

Iain

Ian,

I see your question has been answered.

For me the matter was decided by your picture of the red and white hunter. Unless the colour division not parallel with the fuselage centre line, the beginning of the extension is considerably out board. A 4mm extension places it directly in line with the inboard edge of the aileron......trust me, I know, because I've just changed mine back.......yuk.

I hope our friend can provide a definite measurement but whatever the outcome, I'm NOT changing it back!!

Regards,

Trubbie

PS The only picture in the Data File that I can find (page 41) shows a semi plan view of the wing. The aircraft on the far right seems to corroborate your findings.

[Iain Ogilvie]

What?! Get one, it's fab!!!

I can see I'm going to have to rectify the gap in my book collection now!

Ian,

I see your question has been answered.

For me the matter was decided by your picture of the red and white hunter. Unless the colour division not parallel with the fuselage centre line, the beginning of the extension is considerably out board. A 4mm extension places it directly in line with the inboard edge of the aileron......trust me, I know, because I've just changed mine back.......yuk.

I hope our friend can provide a definite measurement but whatever the outcome, I'm NOT changing it back!!

Regards,

Trubbie

PS The only picture in the Data File that I can find (page 41) shows a semi plan view of the wing. The aircraft on the far right seems to corroborate your findings.

Crumbs - I just hope I'm right now!

Oh - and where are the build pix?

Iain

Edited September 15, 2010 by Iain (32SIG)

[Trubbie]

I can see I'm going to have to rectify the gap in my book collection now!

Crumbs - I just hope I'm right now!

Oh - and where are the build pix?

Iain

Ian,

I'm attempting the T12 using the Fisher conversion. I use the word 'attempting' more in a hopeful sense rather than a competant, confident way.

A very nice bloke in NZ has provided the crest and lettering so there is no excuse for failure, save 'mistakes'......(see above..ha..ha)

Does anybody know how I use Photobucket? I need an idiot's guide.

Regards,

Trubbie

[sinistervampire319]

Hi Brett,

Have you seen these.

Landing gear.

http://www.cybermodeler.com/hobby/details/...sac_32014.shtml

Excellent build here showing corrections to wing saw tooth, etc.

http://www.xs4all.nl/~designer/models/hunt...hunter-f6-1.htm

Hope this helps.

Cheers, Alan

[AnonymousAA72]

I've just had a look at my to be built F6, and I have to say that it looks like Revell have it RIGHT! Unless of course the aileron is 4mm too short. We do need someone to get a tape measure out!!

To align the aileron line and the edge of the dog-tooth is in my opinion wrong. If you have a look at any 4FTS Hunter, T7 or F6, for example, you will see that the red extends further inboard. So..thats a great link to a great build article - and I'd certainly not disagree about moving the pylons in - thats a good fix but as for the dog-tooth! No!!! Leave it alone!

[TheModeller]

I've been hunting through a bunch of Hunter images I have and these two came to light, they are of the former RAE/DERA two-seater WV383, after her retirement she was passed on to FAST at Farnboro'

Interestingly, the starboard aileron has been replaced and not repainted, or it wasn't at the time, these images were taken back in 2003. Note where the boundary of the red wingtip is in relation to the inboard edge of the aileron.

Here from the front you can see that the red is aligned to the kink of the dogtooth. I am of course assuming that the demarcation of the red wingtips runs parallel to the aircrafts centreline, that would be the norm but I don't have a plan shot of Hecate to confirm this, the demarcation is further outboard than I'd expect it to be normally.

Hope this is of some help, what we lack is a definitive length for the aileron itself, if that corresponds with the kit then I don't think there is much wrong with the dogtooths, at least, not 4mm's worth!

I will try to get to the FAST museum on Saturday and see if they'll let me hold a tape measure to the old girls wobbly bits!

Edited September 16, 2010 by TheModeller

[Iain Ogilvie]

Hmmm...

I think I'm going to try and gain access to the Hunter F Mk 6 at Halton next week.

I still think the Revell kit is bang on.

Iain

[TheModeller]

Damn, I hate little niggles like this, I also dug through the stash tonight for my Echelon single seater kit.

The drawings and parts , for all intents and purposes, match the Revell kits, and I don't recall anything ever being said about the accuracy of the Echelon kits, while I can't say anything for the quality of the drawings I've never been able to find anything glaringly at odds with the real thing in them either.

Our Dutch counterpart has clearly done an excellent job on all his Hunter conversions but I think he's been wrong-footed about the dogtooth, maybe because the drawings he referred to were incorrect? I don't see any references listed on his pages, but there are quite a few and I haven't been through all of them.

Edited September 16, 2010 by TheModeller

[Iain Ogilvie]

I can remember Frank working on the Hunters - he's a perfectionist...

'Nuff said

I built a couple of his prototypes.

Iain

[AnonymousAA72]

Good call about the inner pylons though...I never noticed that before. Time to get my Echelon T7 out of the box for a look - any excuse!!

[ghaynes]

Ok guys. We currently have a Hunter GA.11 (XE707) about to be re-assembled. The wings are off so I can measure and photograph anything that will help. What do you need?

Kind Regards.

Graham

Edited September 17, 2010 by ghaynes

[Paul Bradley]

Hi All! I was told about this thread and thought I'd pitch in.

In my book, I mention that the Revell kit dog tooth is 2mm (NOT 4mm...) too far outboard. I derived the 2mm from measurements I made of the F.58 at Pima when I was taking the photos for the book. As the wingtips of the Hunter are curved, these measurements were made from panel line locations and fixed points on the airframe. These were then overlaid on the plans that I had to hand (the Caruana plans.) and it was very interesting to note differences. This is long before Mark did his plans.....and I have every confidence that his are now the best out there.

Anyways, I don't have those measurements any more so I can't directly quote them. It has to be said that 2mm is less than three inches in 1 to 1, and not something I,as an average modeller, wanted to deal with as you will see from my book build, but the info is there for those who wish to have the most accurate info and who CAN be bothered!

Incidentally, if you liked the Hunter book, Mark, Srecko and I are working on another project that will hopefully see the light of day next April/May.

Edited September 17, 2010 by Paul Bradley