Lysander In TSS

[stevehnz]

I saw these pics of a restored Lysander (scroll down to 6th row of pics) in TSS scheme, somewhere in the states by the look of it. Is this scheme correct for a Lizzie, I wondered maybe ASR? I like the look of it & have plans for several other ASR planes but is this one for real or is it a fiction?

Steve.

[Col.]

As a kid - so longer ago than I care to remember - I'm near sure I built a 72nd scale kit in a similar scheme and scratch-built some life-rafts to hang on the pylons after seeing photos of such a machine.

[Edgar]

BA codes were worn by 277 Squadron, which was a dedicated ASR unit, and it had Lysander IIIAs from Dec., 1941 until Feb., 1945. V9288 was BA-X, V9431 was BA-S, and V9545 was BA-C. AMO A.664/42 called for ASR a/c to be in Temperate Sea Scheme, with dull red codes. This scheme was reiterated in October, 1944, in A.P.2565A.

Strangely, in 1943, there was a flurry of signals, from, to, and about 277 Squadron, in which they were asking that their Spitfires could carry yellow codes, instead of red; eventually this was agreed, and the idea was supposed to be extended to all ASR a/c, but, by the look of the A.P., it didn't happen. I have seen a Spitfire with yellow codes, but not a Lysander.

Edgar

[sanguin]

Gentlemen,

I have a book entitled 'RAF Hawkinge In Old Photographs' by Roy Humphries which shows some partial images of 277 aircraft including Walruses (or is it Walri ?), Lysanders, a Defiant and a remarkably unhelpful Spitfire picture.

The two best pictures of the Lysanders, undated, have twin 0.5 Brownings for the Observer/Gunner for rear defence. One clearly has red BA codes (no other letter visible) which seem to have a sheen and are not matt but the other seems to show paler letters, again BA only, possibly sky or medium sea grey. Or, remotely possible, yellow......but really it looks more like grey or sky. Yellow codes do seem rather exotic for flying over Dogger Bank, but there were some naval gunnery ranges out there, I believe.

The Defiant is clearly coded BA-A in red, no serial visible and the presumed use of ortho film makes the camouflage demarcations markedly contrasting. Spinner not visible, no sky fuselage band. There is a thin yellow band around the fuselage roundel. The bottom image here: http://forum.planetalk.net/viewtopic.php?p...5cf938d9d24fafe is nothing like the camouflage scheme on the picture I have, nor are the code colours correct. The pattern does not match the green/earth Defiants at the top of the link, either.

I am happy to copy the pictures for private use if anyone wants to contact me, but they are lacking any serials or final code letters. The Spitfire show nothing apart from the pilot, although it claims to be of a 'clipped wing ASR Vc', the Walrus pictures are fairly well known (HD908, BA-D in red, port side image). There are a number of pictures of 277 aircrew, though, for those who may be interested.

I await news from those who know more....

John

[stevehnz]

Thanks all for this, sounds like TSS is OK then from what Edgar has come up with. I sort of hoped that might be the case. I recently picked up a set of decals which has marking for the Spitfire ASR Mk IIc or whatever, black stripe along the belly, but in DG/OG/MSG rather than TSS, pity that but there we go. John, I'll PM you with an email addy, I'd like a copy of those pics if poss, I have some info already on Defiants, I think one of the ASR squadrons went in for a non std camo pattern from what I've read, but I'll stick with whatever has std pattern as being easier to reference. I've got some sketches with the Life Rafts on Lysanders but not Defiants, my next quest, AFAIK, the Spifires had their flare chutes adapted for dropping these life rafts. I'll bet now that the Airfix Lysander is the wrong Mk, a Mk II from memory, with a Perseus rather than Mercury motor.

Steve.

[lasermonkey]

Thanks all for this, sounds like TSS is OK then from what Edgar has come up with. I sort of hoped that might be the case. I recently picked up a set of decals which has marking for the Spitfire ASR Mk IIc or whatever, black stripe along the belly, but in DG/OG/MSG rather than TSS, pity that but there we go. John, I'll PM you with an email addy, I'd like a copy of those pics if poss, I have some info already on Defiants, I think one of the ASR squadrons went in for a non std camo pattern from what I've read, but I'll stick with whatever has std pattern as being easier to reference. I've got some sketches with the Life Rafts on Lysanders but not Defiants, my next quest, AFAIK, the Spifires had their flare chutes adapted for dropping these life rafts. I'll bet now that the Airfix Lysander is the wrong Mk, a Mk II from memory, with a Perseus rather than Mercury motor.

Steve.

Hi Steve, I think it's the Matchbox kit which is a Mk II, with the Airfix kit being a Mk I/III. That said, I prefer the Matchbox kit and bought a Mercury engine/cowl from Aeroclub to convert it.

Cheers,

Mark.

[DCRanger]

For an ASR Lizzie you should really have SBC's (Small Bomb Containers) attached to the stup wings via Iniversal carriers. These contained the dinghies and other bits of recue gear. For strict accuracy you also need Light Series bomb rack (as seen on Harts, Blenheims and Swordfish etc) fitted under the gunners position and carrying smoke floats.

A nice bit of footage can be seen here. Sorry, but you have to watch an advert before the film clip starts. Don't forget to enlarge the picture by clicking on the @expand' button next to the volume indicator.

[stevehnz]

For an ASR Lizzie you should really have SBC's (Small Bomb Containers) attached to the stup wings via Iniversal carriers. These contained the dinghies and other bits of recue gear. For strict accuracy you also need Light Series bomb rack (as seen on Harts, Blenheims and Swordfish etc) fitted under the gunners position and carrying smoke floats.

A nice bit of footage can be seen here. Sorry, but you have to watch an advert before the film clip starts. Don't forget to enlarge the picture by clicking on the @expand' button next to the volume indicator.

I tried to have a look at this bit it wouldn't load, do I need to be registered before I can watch it?

I have managed to borrow the Warpaint volume on the Lysander, I see the colour schemes in it give the ASR ones as being Dark Green/Extra Dark Sea Grey/Sky,I'm wondering if this would not be more correct for the Dark green to be replaced with Darl Slate grey, if these were supposed to be in TSS?

Steve.

[brewerjerry]

DCRanger said:

For an ASR Lizzie you should really have SBC's (Small Bomb Containers) attached to the stup wings via Iniversal carriers. These contained the dinghies and other bits of recue gear. For strict accuracy you also need Light Series bomb rack (as seen on Harts, Blenheims and Swordfish etc) fitted under the gunners position and carrying smoke floats.

A nice bit of footage can be seen here. Sorry, but you have to watch an advert before the film clip starts. Don't forget to enlarge the picture by clicking on the @expand' button next to the volume indicator.

Hi

a nice clip, at one time you could download lo-rez film free from the pathe site.

there is more footage available from this film,it shows spits scrambling etc,if i remember the link i will post it.

the walrus was the one done by airfix in the old days.

276Sqn also had hurricanes but i have found out little on the fittings,etc.

link

http://www.rafweb.org/SqnMark271-299.htm

http://www.cbrnp.com/profiles/quarter2/defiants.htm

cheers

Jerry

Edited May 15, 2022 by brewerjerry

[brewerjerry]

Hi

    If you follow the footage there is nice bits of the lysander dinghy fit etc

   it was actually filmed at portreath 

 

  cheers

    jerry 

 

 

asr film 

 

 

Edited May 15, 2022 by brewerjerry

[stevehnz]

Those are magic clips Jerry, some top info in them. Now where did I put that Lizzie.

Steve.