RussTnailZ Posted August 7, 2010 Share Posted August 7, 2010 name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src=" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>"> name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src=" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src=" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>"> name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src=" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350">RusskienailZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angels49 Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 Holyyyyyyyyyy Shiite....No way I want to be in the same part of the sky with that!!!!...Geeez you over shoot once and it's all over!!!. However if you're as good as 'e is, when 'e does one of those flips.....'is airspeed is almost 0 and any good missile will ruin 'is 'ole day mate, or a quick burst of 20/30 cannon will send 'im looking for a nice long piece of flat ground, or a let down via the silk elevator. Just don't get too close...so you can go evasive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussTnailZ Posted August 9, 2010 Author Share Posted August 9, 2010 Holyyyyyyyyyy Shiite....No way I want to be in the same part of the sky with that!!!!...Geeez you over shoot once and it's all over!!!. However if you're as good as 'e is, when 'e does one of those flips.....'is airspeed is almost 0 and any good missile will ruin 'is 'ole day mate, or a quick burst of 20/30 cannon will send 'im looking for a nice long piece of flat ground, or a let down via the silk elevator. Just don't get too close...so you can go evasive. All next gen fighters like the Raptor and the Typhoon can do these manouvres. With the tech in todays ordanance its kind of pointless unless it gets to guns and even then its down to how many G the pilot can withstand because there going to be done at higher speed in combat, so there only really going to get used in display but they are impressive to see. The plane can now do more than the pilot this is another reason why UAV is being heavily invested in you still use the pilot but in a no G no threat to his life situation. Russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow07 Posted September 22, 2010 Share Posted September 22, 2010 kinda late, but I read in on the famous '37', apparently soon after hitting the display circuit and when its usefullness was over it was returned to Su-27 standard and crashed soon after. It was a test-bed for 3d TVR and side-stick controls, a first for a russian jet, amongst other things. The Su-35 was created from the fruit of the 37 project. lol I hate all those numbers @.@ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col. Posted September 22, 2010 Share Posted September 22, 2010 When MiG-29s and Su27s first demonstrated the Tail-slide and Cobra maneuvers the USAF bods first rubbished their effectiveness in air combat and then spent a lot of time and effort developing counter-maneuvers with the Rockwell X-31. At least I think it was the X-31 - wee blue and white UCAV. Anyway, also heard stories that F-8 pilots could pull tail-slides as well during the Vietnam War but were more spectacular due to the engine back-surging and spitting flames out the intake! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyGhost Posted September 22, 2010 Share Posted September 22, 2010 When MiG-29s and Su27s first demonstrated the Tail-slide and Cobra maneuvers the USAF bods first rubbished their effectiveness in air combat and then spent a lot of time and effort developing counter-maneuvers with the Rockwell X-31. At least I think it was the X-31 - wee blue and white UCAV. Anyway, also heard stories that F-8 pilots could pull tail-slides as well during the Vietnam War but were more spectacular due to the engine back-surging and spitting flames out the intake! Actually, the F-15STMD pre-dates what we seen the Mig-29 or Su-27 do in Super-Maneuverability ... >>> Clicky <<< Gregg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaoslord Posted September 22, 2010 Share Posted September 22, 2010 impressive indeed, but the big difference is that the F-15STMD was a testbed while the Su-27/30/35 is a production aircraft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyGhost Posted September 22, 2010 Share Posted September 22, 2010 impressive indeed, but the big difference is that the F-15STMD was a testbed while the Su-27/30/35 is a production aircraft So was the Su-37 as already pointed out above ... Gregg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaoslord Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 yes of course, it was a testbed but the fruit of that effort was the Su-35. Unfortunately there wasn't such a development with the development of the F-15 (although I could guess that whatever was gained went to the YF-22/23 programs). nonetheless, production Su-27s have been demonstrating hyper-agility unreachable from western fighters for decades. whether that can be used in combat though I can't tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyGhost Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 yes of course, it was a testbed but the fruit of that effort was the Su-35. Unfortunately there wasn't such a development with the development of the F-15 (although I could guess that whatever was gained went to the YF-22/23 programs).nonetheless, production Su-27s have been demonstrating hyper-agility unreachable from western fighters for decades. whether that can be used in combat though I can't tell. How do you know it's unreachable ? Just because one doesn't see it demonstrated doesn't mean it can't do it ... I've seen video film of early F-14 Prototypes pulling High Alpha maneuvers like the Su-27 ... Have you ever seen an F/A-18 do the High Alpha 360 Turn ? Gregg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussTnailZ Posted September 23, 2010 Author Share Posted September 23, 2010 Have you ever seen an F/A-18 do the High Alpha 360 Turn ? Gregg I was lucky enough to see a CF-18 demonstrating high alpha manouvres last year at Yarmouth Airshow in Canada and it actually made me start to like the bug was never a fan until seeing one in action. Russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaoslord Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 don't get me wrong, I didn't say they are not agile. I talked about hyper-agility (emphasis on hyper) like the Kulbit and Cobra maneuvers the US fighters only managed to perform with later versions (or testbeds). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amos brierley Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 WOW - this is the dogs back wheels!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedy Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 More importantly, does anybody do a model of one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F111Fan Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 More importantly, does anybody do a model of one? Yes, Zvezda do a 1/72 kit of it. Bit difficult to find, though IIRC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyGhost Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 don't get me wrong, I didn't say they are not agile.I talked about hyper-agility (emphasis on hyper) like the Kulbit and Cobra maneuvers the US fighters only managed to perform with later versions (or testbeds). Have you ever seen the video of Drakens pulling Cobras ? A lot of aircraft can do that ... Gregg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussTnailZ Posted September 23, 2010 Author Share Posted September 23, 2010 (edited) More importantly, does anybody do a model of one? minni hobby do a 1/48 one http://www.westwalesmodels.co.uk/Mini-Hobb...nker-1/48-Scale Edited September 24, 2010 by RussTnailZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaoslord Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 yes, I have seen it. the swedes did it first with the draken (and only that). then the russians took it further with higher AoAs and longer cycle due to the flanker's aerodynamics -> production aircraft. and then came the ACTIVE, HARV, VISTA and all that, and then came the F-22. the agility of the Su-27 and it's derivatives was on a whole different level that the production aircraft of its time, due to the different philosophy of its aerodynamic design. I haven't designed the thing so I don't need to defend it. It's a simple timeline thing, who did what first and with what equipment. these are the facts Have you ever seen the video of Drakens pulling Cobras ? A lot of aircraft can do that ... Gregg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyGhost Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 yes, I have seen it. the swedes did it first with the draken (and only that). then the russians took it further with higher AoAs and longer cycle due to the flanker's aerodynamics -> production aircraft. and then came the ACTIVE, HARV, VISTA and all that, and then came the F-22. the agility of the Su-27 and it's derivatives was on a whole different level that the production aircraft of its time, due to the different philosophy of its aerodynamic design. I haven't designed the thing so I don't need to defend it. It's a simple timeline thing, who did what first and with what equipment. these are the facts Read the link in my first post again and talk about timelines ... You'll see when we started work on TVC design work, etc ... As I've said, I've seen footage of prototype F-14s doing cobra like AOA maneuvers in the 1971/72 timeframe ... I still have never seen another aircraft with the slow speed handling that the F/A-18 achieves excluding STOVL aircraft ... I've read accounts from pilots that state that a Hornet Driver can pretty much point their nose anywhere they want in a dogfight ... Gregg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaoslord Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 yes, I have read the link that says ''With the help of thrust vectoring nozzles, this aircraft can perform the famous Pugachev's Cobra maneuver.'' my point is that the Su-27 that performed the cobra in the 80s was a production aircraft with no TVC or huge canards helping out, still remaining fully controllable. and I have also read the account of pilots a few months ago on Combat Aircraft if I remember correctly, in regards to a visit of Rafales to a US carrier - the Roosevelt I believe, saying that the Rafale might be able to quickly point its nose instantly wherever it wanted (read between the lines here) but they still preferred the Super Hornet. anywho, I think this has dragged long enough. wonderful planes all of them, so lets go model them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussTnailZ Posted September 24, 2010 Author Share Posted September 24, 2010 I think this has dragged long enough. wonderful planes all of them, so lets go model them! Yep i agree Can we keep it to the Su-37 guys and try not to get into the whats and whens im all for debate but it can get out of hand and off topic Russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyGhost Posted September 25, 2010 Share Posted September 25, 2010 Someone has to get their timelines right ... >>> Clicky <<< F-15SMT was flying years before the Su-27 did the maneuver at the Paris Airshow ... Gregg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussTnailZ Posted September 25, 2010 Author Share Posted September 25, 2010 Russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainA Posted September 25, 2010 Share Posted September 25, 2010 lol Russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOUSTON Posted September 25, 2010 Share Posted September 25, 2010 Have you ever seen the video of Drakens pulling Cobras ? A lot of aircraft can do that ... Gregg Gregg, What a Classic video ,How AWESOME was that..thankx.. Houston Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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