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Simon

East German Su-22M4 colours?

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Hi all

I recently acquired a KP 1/48 Su-22M4, and need some colour matches for the camouflage scheme used on them by the East German Air force.

From what I can gather, the East German/Luftwaffe machines used much the same two-tone green, sand and re-brown over light grey scheme as the rest of the Eastern Bloc users, i.e. this one:

http://www.suchoj.com/ab1953/Su-22/riss/Su-22M4_01.jpg

Has anyone any colour matches for this scheme?

And are there any 1/48 weapons sets available for Eastern Bloc aircraft? Like the Hasegawa ones, but with Russian stuff.

Cheers

Simon

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Hi Simon!

One minute ago I called my father and told him your problem. I've translated your question into German and sent it to him. I'll keep you updated if I get his answer on my mail.

He's a Pro for more than 30 years. Unfortunately, he doesn't speak English very well ... much worse than mine ;):whistle:

Please have a little patience ;)

Michael

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Hi Simon!

One minute ago I called my father and told him your problem. I've translated your question into German and sent it to him. I'll keep you updated if I get his answer on my mail.

He's a Pro for more than 30 years. Unfortunately, he doesn't speak English very well ... much worse than mine ;):whistle:

Please have a little patience ;)

Michael

Many thanks Michael. Or vielen Dank!

(Your English is MUCH better than my German :blush: )

Simon

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Hi all

I recently acquired a KP 1/48 Su-22M4, and need some colour matches for the camouflage scheme used on them by the East German Air force.

From what I can gather, the East German/Luftwaffe machines used much the same two-tone green, sand and re-brown over light grey scheme as the rest of the Eastern Bloc users, i.e. this one:

http://www.suchoj.com/ab1953/Su-22/riss/Su-22M4_01.jpg

Has anyone any colour matches for this scheme?

And are there any 1/48 weapons sets available for Eastern Bloc aircraft? Like the Hasegawa ones, but with Russian stuff.

Cheers

Simon

Hallo

Ze SU-22 is one of my fave planes, i have walked around many and taken loads of fotos of former DDR ones, close up of weapons, pylons etc, i have that kit, etch, resin, decals etc.

I have loads of good fotos, and popped them all on cd (also Mig 21's, Hinds, Mig 23's etc etc) and posted the cd to a few people for a fiver free delivery, cos i need to raise some cash for the big Mig23 i want.

just a few here to get a rough idea

http://www.julianhales.co.uk/military_images_samples.htm

I spend a lot of time in Germany (east!!) and always take fotos etc. cant help on the weapons set, i know someone did one (i have it somewhere but cant remember if its 72nd or 48) but its bad......not worth it.

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no problem at all, Simon ... and those two words are in a perfect German :D

My Dad said, he will answer the mail tomorrow.

Edited by Micha

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Nothing to do with your original enquiry Simon, but where did you obtain that marvellous 607sqn Gladiator painting you use in your sig???

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Good choice of model - have you looked at Xtracolour range of colours from Hannants????? I`ve used them for my Eastern Block A/C. .........................Look out for the `Part` brass etch boarding ladder - a must for this kit.

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Nothing to do with your original enquiry Simon, but where did you obtain that marvellous 607sqn Gladiator painting you use in your sig???

Do I gather from your user name that, like myself, you come from the Sunderland area? ;)

The Gladiator illustration is my own work - I'm an illustrator by trade, and model-maker by accident!!

Cheers

Simon

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You are indeed correct, just by the Board Inn. Loving your work mate - ever thought of doing one of their Vampires too??

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hi Simon!

My dad searched for an article about the Su-22 but he didn't find it ... what he has found is an article about some different GDR jets, the Su-22 has not been part of it :(

But he told me, there's no scheme on those NVA colours. That means, you can hand-paint your model as you like. There's no similarity in the colour scheme to watch if two jets stay side by side.

This is the text my Dad mailed me one minute ago (translation below)

Ich habe den lange gesuchten Artikel gefunden. Der Verfasser bezieht sich auf mehrere DDR-Flugzeuge; das genannte Flugzeug, die Su- 22 ist aber nicht dabei. Er verweist auf die Unterschiedlichkeit aller verwendeten Farben, was ich auch aus meinem Truppenteil bzw. Waffengattung bestätigen kann.Der Interessent sollte sich nach meiner Meinung am besten an guten Fotos orientieren, sich Bücher, die über die DDR-Luftfahrt berichten und auch den Kartonmodellbogen aus Polen von Maly Modelarz 10-11-12/2003 besorgen.Nur so wird er zu maximalsten Ergebnissen kommen. Eine echte Standardisierung der Farben hat es in der NVA nicht gegeben.

He (my Dad) found the long searched article. The author referred to some different planes. Your inquired plane - the Su-22 - hasn't been part of it. The author referred the variety of all used colours, what my Dad can confirm by his own military time. In his (my Dad's) opinion you should take some good photos (like those of mrcooljules) and books of the GDR's aviation to orientate. You could also organize the paper model "Maly Modelarz 10-11-12/2003" from Poland. That's the only way to get maximum results. It has never given a real standardisation in the NVA (East German army), my Dad said.

I hope this will help you a little bit ;)

Edited by Micha

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normal_mali_titelbild.jpg Edited by Micha

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Michael

Many thanks for the extra info. Sounds like French Air Force WW2 camouflage - every one was different!

I have a particular aircraft in mind: East German Air Force number 31407/Red 820, which was then operated by the Luftwaffe as 25+45, and then coded 98+10 when operated by WTD 61. I've bought a copy of the AirDOC 'Luftwaffe Fitter' book, and there are a few photos of it in there but no images of the upper surface markings. I did find this article, which is a build of the same plane:

http://www.modellversium.de/galerie/8-flug...astercraft.html

In it the builder mentions Gunze and Revell paints, but not the colours he used, unfortunately. The camouflage pattern is incorrect too, judging by the AirDOC book images.

The kit instructions say:

Green FS 24079

Brown FS 20059

Light Green FS 24097

Tan FS 30219

Light Grey FS 35352

The AirDOC book has a colour 3-view, with the following colours mentioned:

Green FS 34079

Brown FS 30061

Light Green FS 34258

Tan FS 30257

Light Gray FS 36492

I've also got the Cutting Edge 'Fancy Fitters' decals, and they reckon:

Green FS 34079

Brown FS 30045

Light Green FS 34128

Tan FS 30219

Light Grey FS 35414

And finally, the Hi-Decal SU-22 decals instructions say these colours:

Green FS 34079

Brown FS 30108

Light Green FS 34226

Tan FS 30257

Light Grey FS 34277

I'm more than a little confused... :hypnotised: I guess some colour testing and some trial and error may be needed!

Simon

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Arrrrghhh...How have I missed that topic this morning!?!?

I was at the Luftwaffenmuseum today and could have taken some pictures. Well poo-poo happens :)

Cheers,

Alex

P.S. Grüße nach Erkner aus Mitte

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P.S. Grüße nach Erkner aus Mitte

Haben wir ein Luftwaffe-Museum in Berlin? :gobsmacked:

Do we have a Luftwaffe museum in Berlin? :gobsmacked:

um ... btw ... a little OT ;) ... I'll make the GDR museum (at Karl-Liebknecht-Str.) my IL-62 a gift next week.

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And are there any 1/48 weapons sets available for Eastern Bloc aircraft? Like the Hasegawa ones, but with Russian stuff.

Cheers

Simon

Excellent Russian weapons in the 1:48 scale you can found in the Su-24M Trumpeter's kit.

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Excellent Russian weapons in the 1:48 scale you can found in the Su-24M Trumpeter's kit.

Hannants used to do all the GDR colours. I have them and they matched pictures very well. I will sort out the numbers and FS. Ditto the 48th trumpeter SU-24 and also OEZ SU-25

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Thanks for all the further replies everyone. In order:

Murmillo - I have that book already, and it has FS numbers listed, but they don't match my other references...

Arkady72 - thanks for the info, but the Trumpeter Fencer is £75...a bit too much to spend for some weapons! :(

BushBrit66 - thanks for that - look forward to hearing back from you. And as the Trumpy Fencer is out of my league price-wise, thanks for the pointer about the OEZ Frogfoot.

Cheers

Simon

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Arkady72 - thanks for the info, but the Trumpeter Fencer is £75...a bit too much to spend for some weapons! sad.gif

You're right, but in addition would you have a beautiful model ;) . If you can wait - in the end of October I will get this Su-24 and I can share with you with some of the weapons.

There is a lot of stuff and I am sure it is enough for both planes or even more...

Edited by Arkady72

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Hallo

Ze SU-22 is one of my fave planes, i have walked around many and taken loads of fotos of former DDR ones, close up of weapons, pylons etc, i have that kit, etch, resin, decals etc.

I have loads of good fotos, and popped them all on cd (also Mig 21's, Hinds, Mig 23's etc etc) and posted the cd to a few people for a fiver free delivery, cos i need to raise some cash for the big Mig23 i want.

just a few here to get a rough idea

http://www.julianhales.co.uk/military_images_samples.htm

I spend a lot of time in Germany (east!!) and always take fotos etc. cant help on the weapons set, i know someone did one (i have it somewhere but cant remember if its 72nd or 48) but its bad......not worth it.

That cd still availible? :)

Thanks,

Andy

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I have a russian weapons set from ICM in 1/72 scale might be worth a check to see if it was also done in 1/48.chris

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I have a russian weapons set from ICM in 1/72 scale might be worth a check to see if it was also done in 1/48.chris

ah thats it....yes i have that set. i couldnt find a 48th years ago but that could be cos i didnt look hard enough

That cd still availible? :)

Thanks,

Andy

Hi Andy, yup.. sent one to Scotland last Fri...drop us a PM :-)

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Hi Andy, yup.. sent one to Scotland last Fri...drop us a PM :-)

Me too please - PM sent.

Cheers

Simon

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NVA DDR have export version Su-17M4 - Su-22M4.

I do not remember, but Su-22M4 or were not used at all in the USSR Air Force or were used in flight schools for the training of foreign cadets from the countries that purchased the Su-22M4. Thus, the Su-22M4 NVA DDR were not part of the Air Force of the USSR and were new from the plant in Komsomolsk on the Amur USSR. Consequently, these aircraft were painted directly at the plant in the USSR according to the colors of the NVA DDR standard TGL, or that more likely they were painted with Soviet enamels close in shade to similar enamel standard TGL, because dragging the barrels of paint from the DDR across the whole of the USSR to Komsomolsk on Amur to the Far East, probably economically impractical, although this also can not be ruled out. But what were the Su-22M4 painted for model paints? It seems to me that the shades of Su-22M4 NVA DDR colors are close or coincide with the shades of the MiG-29 NVA DDR.

20180616_234204.jpg

20180616_234214.jpg

20180616_234230.jpg

20180616_234240.jpg

And who is the best to tell about the colors of the MiG-29 NVA DDR how is it not a magazine from the DDR?

20180616_234112.jpg

20180616_234134.jpg

20180616_234144.jpg

Now you know how to interpret your camouflage by the East Germans

20180616_234821.jpg

themselves in the time of the DDR! But if someone considers their camouflage decoding to be incorrect, then one can try to find the right colors of the standard TGL and translate them into the RAL standard and then into the model paints. I wrote about the standard TGL here:

 

B.R.

Serge

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