Hurricane Mk1 Cockpit colour

[crobinsonh]

Folks,

Was the correct colour for a fabric wing Hurricane - Gray/green or eau-de-nil?

Regards

[Erwin]

Folks,

Was the correct colour for a fabric wing Hurricane - Gray/green or eau-de-nil?

Regards

I've no idea what that is.

But I believe all Hurricane cockpits were painted "interior green".

Can anyone confirm ?

[Whitewolf]

They were indeed grey-green, the best match available is the interior grey-green contained in the Mr Model (Gunze Sangyo) aircraft 'Interior' set available from MDC.

[Edgar]

There was, in fact, a designated colour "Cockpit Green," but, although the stores no. is known, so far colour chips are proving totally elusive.

Edgar

[daz greenwood]

I used to use Humbrol 86, but then started using Humbrol 78.

[Nick Millman]

They were indeed grey-green, the best match available is the interior grey-green contained in the Mr Model (Gunze Sangyo) aircraft 'Interior' set available from MDC.

The "best match" to what and how was it measured?

Please see Edgar's various posts on this subject. The RAF Museum swatch is not called "interior grey-green" it is just "Grey Green". There was also a pale interior green colour used for RAF vehicles - Eau-de-Nil BS 216 - and called colloquially "puke green" (chosen as the most restful colour on the eyes when sitting in vehicles for long periods of time) and a 1925 paint colour standard "Primer Green" also reported to be used for cockpit interiors. There is no close FS 595B, RAL or "standard" Munsell equivalent to that colour (it is 4.2 GY 5.7/3.1). The Du Pont equivalent to whatever the RAF painted their cockpits was called "Cockpit Light Green" (71-036).

By no means cut and dried it seems.

Nick

[John @ WEM]

The "best match" to what and how was it measured?

Please see Edgar's various posts on this subject. The RAF Museum swatch is not called "interior grey-green" it is just "Grey Green". There was also a pale interior green colour used for RAF vehicles - Eau-de-Nil BS 216 - and called colloquially "puke green" (chosen as the most restful colour on the eyes when sitting in vehicles for long periods of time) and a 1925 paint colour standard "Primer Green" also reported to be used for cockpit interiors. There is no close FS 595B, RAL or "standard" Munsell equivalent to that colour (it is 4.2 GY 5.7/3.1). The Du Pont equivalent to whatever the RAF painted their cockpits was called "Cockpit Light Green" (71-036).

By no means cut and dried it seems.

Nick

Hmm, if I had a couple hundred dollars to spare, I could get a sheet of that custom-prepared from Munsell and we could then match it in Colourcoats.... Nah, we'll stick with our existing interior grey-green.

[Edgar]

Nah, we'll stick with our existing interior grey-green.

Some people have no sense of adventure.

Edgar

[Nick Millman]

Hmm, if I had a couple hundred dollars to spare, I could get a sheet of that custom-prepared from Munsell and we could then match it in Colourcoats.... Nah, we'll stick with our existing interior grey-green.

You won't want the Du Pont colours which I've now measured in L*a*b* and got precise Munsell notations for then?

[Edgar]

Something to be going along with.

Edgar

Edited July 26, 2010 by Edgar

[Jennings Heilig]

Something to be going along with.

Edgar

By my rough count, there are 32,976 colors (+/- 250) of green, grey-green, and grey in those two photos

J

[Edgar]

You want life to be easy?

Edgar

[Smiffy]

"Can open...worms everywhere"

That's a terrific and very helpful pic, Edgar. Thanks.

[Test Graham]

Doesn't WEM already produce an Eau-de-Nil, following Paul Lucas's work on BoB fighter colours?

I suppose I could always dash upstairs and check - except my wife has just gone off to Alaska on holiday and hidden the pole that pulls down the loftladder! I'm sure it isn't deliberate, she'll just have left it in a safe place.....

BS16.

[John @ WEM]

You won't want the Du Pont colours which I've now measured in L*a*b* and got precise Munsell notations for then?

Oh man, Nick, now you've REALLY got my attention. You KNOW I'm interested in those!

[Erwin]

Doesn't WEM already produce an Eau-de-Nil, following Paul Lucas's work on BoB fighter colours?

Here it is again ! "Eau de Nil"

Isn't anyone going to tell me what this is ?

[Edgar]

One of its manifestations is (or was) BS 381C:216; this colour existed in 1980, at least, and the (printed) colour chip, from that date, is very similar to the colour that Humbrol used to supply as 90 "beige green."

Edgar

[Nick Millman]

One of its manifestations is (or was) BS 381C:216; this colour existed in 1980, at least, and the (printed) colour chip, from that date, is very similar to the colour that Humbrol used to supply as 90 "beige green."

Edgar

Still current. It is approx Munsell 6.7 GY 7.0/4.3. What does that mean? Very close to the "standard" Munsell value 5 GY 7/4 @ 1.10. And closest FS 595B is 14533 @ 1.86 where < 2.0 = a close match. sRGB 169 183 133. A bilious yellow-green, well described as "puke green". "Restful" in a kind of pre-1950 carbolic, "Oooh, matron" and two tone walls in the wards way. The more vibrantly dressed brother of Sky.

Nick

Edited July 28, 2010 by Nick Millman

[Troy Smith]

As an aside, the original question was about fabric wing Hurricanes, the earliest, i was under the impression that early Hurricanes had the internal frame work in aluminium.

there is a pic of a 29 Sq plane (Sq code RO, IIRC) in the old "Classic Aircraft Hurricane History and how to model them" (on the page with the Squadron codes if anyone has the book) undergoing a major service which shows a very light colour to the internal framework, possibly aluminum.

As an aside the Hurricane prototype had black enameled framework. As i was working a model of the Hurricane prototype, I got in touch with Retrotec who restore Hawker biplanes. here's what they said about the Fury, note the comment about the Hurricane.

"The interior of the Fury is as follows:

The steel tube and steel fittings are stove enamelled black.

The stainless steel fittings are bare metal.

The Duralumin parts are anodised grey.

The aluminium cowlings are polished.

The wooden parts are painted cockpit green.

The fabric appears red on the inside; this is the colour of the first coats of dope.

On many of the two seater biplanes, and possibly the early Hurricanes, the fuselage was painted as a complete assembly, this is either a greeny-grey or silver.

The props are fabric covered and painted grey. The back of the blades is often matt black to avoid reflection. Tips are often yellow."

later Hurricanes are a darker colour, as the famous pics of IIC's being built show. (and I can't find one to link to!)

cheers

T

[John]

Still current. It is approx Munsell 6.7 GY 7.0/4.3. What does that mean? Very close to the "standard" Munsell value 5 GY 7/4 @ 1.10. And closest FS 595B is 15533 @ 1.86 where < 2.0 = a close match. sRGB 169 183 133. A bilious yellow-green, well described as "puke green". "Restful" in a kind of pre-1950 carbolic, "Oooh, matron" and two tone walls in the wards way. The more vibrantly dressed brother of Sky.

Nick

Are you sure about your FS595 ref there Nick? 15533 would be a blue.

John

[Nick Millman]

Are you sure about your FS595 ref there Nick? 15533 would be a blue.

John

I am but my typing finger isn't! Should be 14533 - corrected now, thanks!

Nick

[Kasatka]

Thanks to Edgar who told me that the correct color is the one which the cap of Tamiya's XF-71 has. Not the paint inside.

Cheers

Sergey

[Kari Lumppio]

Hello!

Thought I would share some of the photos result of a recent visit to the Finnish Air Force museum at Tikkakoski, near Jyväskylä, Finland.

( http://www.airforcemuseum.fi/ ). These should fit well under the thread title.

Hurricane Mk I HC-452 was there partly dismantled for some preservation and cleaning work. Paints on the aeroplane are original with few exeptions. Cockpit starboard panel has reportedly been painted after some repairs and quite likely the swastika markings have been repainted. They were - or should have been - overpainted after the war when the change for the current FinnAF cocade was made. The overpainting was done also on planes which had been written off, there is photographic proof of that.

The HC-452 interior colours were well visible with the state of the airframe then. Let's start a short walkaround:

Cockpit panels were generally Interior Green and the framework painted aluminium.

Closer view of the cockpit. Note aluminum paint frames on the canopy and windshield.

Turtledeck seen from the opening on the port side. One of the museum workers said that the Interior Green inside the turtledeck is most likely to be nearest the original condition. Fabric interior colour is red dope.

Cockpit equipment on the port side.

Something for those who like to analyse colours with computers. Genuine Pantone fan page with samples of pure yellow, magenta, cyan and black. White is also provided with the page.

The seat has been painted with aluminium paint.

Finnish Hurricanes arrived without the seat armour and got it only later in their career. The colour of the installed Hurricane armour looks to be British Interior Green, but it's pedigree is unknown to me as is the origin of the armour (British or Finnish-made?).

Cowling panel interiors are also painted in aluminium.

Off to the radiator. The inside of the radiator tunnel is painted aluminium with some light blue overspray.

The radiator also has been painted in aluminium.

To the wing. HC-452 RAF serial was N2394.

Wing interior is also painted aluminium.

Some original RAF Dark Green has survived on the center wing along with the original RAF underside white. These are seen on the left on the area covered by the metal strip when wing panels are installed. Dark Green and Finnish green are quite close. The difference is less on the image than I remember seeing on the real life, though.

Pantone pure black, cyan, magenta and yellow samples are provided too.

I have not researched this aeroplane nor it's colours more than superficially. If you have more specific questions I think the best avenue is to contact the Finnish Air Force museum. Their homepage address is given above and their contact information is there, too. Thanks for the friendly museum personnell allowing to take these photos.

I hope this is of some use for someone,

Kari

Edited April 13, 2011 by Kari Lumppio

[Mikey58]

Great photos there,thanks for posting those.

Mike

[Moofles]

brilliant photos, cheers for that, very helpful.