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Hunter Questions


Paul Bradley

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OK, Hunter fanatics, two quesitons for you, as I've read conflicting opinions:

1. What caused the "blue note" and why is it called that?

2. Why were the Mk.6 and 9 known as the "big bore" Hunters - what was different about the Avon?

Just a couple of little mysteries I'd like to clear up!! :confused:

Edited by Paul Bradley
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1. What caused the "blue note" and why is it called that?

I always understood that it was due to the airflow over the airframe. Wonderful noise, wish I could find an example I could use as the ringtone for my phone.

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2. Why were the Mk.6 and 9 known as the "big bore" Hunters - what was different about the Avon?

These machines had a larger diameter jet-pipe due to a higher flow from later model Avon engines.

There's a thread on here where Edgar and other clever people discuss the subject in detail that would be worth searching out.

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The 200 series Avons have a bigger dia jet pipe than the 10- series. It's very apparent on the Canberra PR.9 as to that on a B.2.

Blue note is a Jazz term and I think the Aircraft noise is due to resonance in the jet pipe at certain throttle settings. Sapphire engined types used to have a most perculiar warbling note when they taxied.

John

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OK, Hunter fanatics, two quesitons for you, as I've read conflicting opinions:

1. What caused the "blue note" and why is it called that?

2. Why were the Mk.6 and 9 known as the "big bore" Hunters - what was different about the Avon?

Just a couple of little mysteries I'd like to clear up!! :confused:

Hi Paul,

Here's one of "John Aero"(club)s 1/48th scale detail sets, designed to improve the Academy F6 or FGA9 kits, which show the difference between the Avon 100 "small bore" or Sapphire engined Hunters and the "large bore" Avon 200 series.

The earlier marks had a distinct "upsweep at the rear of the tail pipe......

The "small bore" is on the left...

000_0669.jpg

Edited by Bill Clark
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Here's one of "John Aero"(club)s 1/48th scale detail sets,

I'm still embarrassed at how long it took for me to add 2 plus 2 & link John with Aeroclub :doh::dunce:

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I'm still embarrassed at how long it took for me to add 2 plus 2 & link John with Aeroclub :doh::dunce:

It's OK Mike, we won't tease you about it :evil_laugh:

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We always believed that "blue note" was given that title because it was very similar to the sound that could be squeezed out of a jazz trumpet. A former pilot of the F.2 Hunter, which used to live at Duxford, said that the Sapphire rumbled, in flight, always giving the impression that it was going to pack up, but it never did.

Edgar

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These machines had a larger diameter jet-pipe due to a higher flow from later model Avon engines.

There's a thread on here where Edgar and other clever people discuss the subject in detail that would be worth searching out.

Ah, I missed that during my search yesterday..... :blush: Useful stuff! Was any consensus reached on the difference in diameter, or did I miss that too? :blush::blush:

Thanks to everyone for replying. That jazz connection is interesting - I wouldn't have thought of that. Jazz was particularly popular in the early Fifties, so it makes sense.

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That jazz connection is interesting - I wouldn't have thought of that.

In music 'Blue' notes are where the musician deliberately flattens either the third, fifth or seventh note in the scale - ever so slightly out of tune. It's what makes Blues/Jazz so distinctive. Presumably 'Blue Note' Hunter's played a distinctly 'flat' tune!

peebeep

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OK, Hunter fanatics, two quesitons for you, as I've read conflicting opinions:

1. What caused the "blue note" and why is it called that?

2. Why were the Mk.6 and 9 known as the "big bore" Hunters - what was different about the Avon?

Just a couple of little mysteries I'd like to clear up!! :confused:

I believe that the "Blue Note" is caused by airflow over the gun ports. It's some thing that is not heard on two seat hunters, so this would point to it not being caused in the jet pipe.

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Forgive me Paul -

Doesn't Harold Melvin take the blame for this? :sorry:

Evening Gary

Just come across this site, is it your work?

http://www.geocities.com/g111258/index.html

Cheers

Jeff

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I believe that the "Blue Note" is caused by airflow over the gun ports. It's some thing that is not heard on two seat hunters, so this would point to it not being caused in the jet pipe.

That's correct. The "bluenote" is primarily caused by airflow over and through the gunports. It only occurs over a certain speed and prevailing atmospheric conditions have an impact as well. On a cool, calm day in a F.6A or FGA.9 the note will occur beautifully at around 450 KIAS.

As already suggested, not all Hunters are able to produce the note. 'Big engined' Hunters without blast deflectors are the ones you want - so that's primarily the F.6A and FGA.9. Twin-tubs can't do it and the Swiss Hunters can't do it - depite what some people will try and tell you!

Of current flying Hunters FGA.9 XE601 can produce the bluenote perfectly. F.6A XF515 can also do it but not quite as well. That's because (I think) it's been fitted with an electric starter system, the batteries and other gubbins of which live in the gun pack hence affecting the airflow through the gun ports. F.6A XF516 also produced the bluenote to perfection but, of course, was sadly lost in a crash a few years ago.

As regards the engine question - yes, the 'big engined' Hunters were those fitted with the 200-series Avon (10,000lb thrust) - so that's the 203 of the Hunter F.6/F.6A and the 207 of the FGA.9 as far as the RAF is concerned. The RAF T-birds were fitted with the 'small bore' Avon 121 and the earlier single-seaters the Avon 115 (Mk. 1 & 4) or Sapphire 101 (Mk. 2 & 5). These 100-series Avon and Sapphire engined aircraft had a narrower diameter jet pipe and therefore a different shape to the tail cone as others have already described. They also had an additional lever in the cockpit for the High Pressure Fuel Cock so if you do a conversion from the Revell F.6 and you're really, really fussy you'll need to add that!!!!!!

Edited by StephenMG
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  • 2 weeks later...

Seen as there seems to be lots of Hunter interest here, I should mention that having finished my big Vulcan book for Crecy (out in a week or so), I'm now tackling the Hunter, so if anyone has anything to add by way of photos, drawings, stories, information, pointers to ex pilots or groundcrew, anything like that, do please drop me a line. It should be the biggest Hunter book produced to date so I'm on the prowl for interesting stuff!

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