spike7451 Posted July 17, 2010 Share Posted July 17, 2010 UK Royal Air Force (RAF) chiefs have offered to cancel the GBP3.65 billion (USD5.57 billion) BAE Systems Nimrod MRA.4 programme just weeks before the first production aircraft are due to be delivered to the service. The offer, made in the RAF submission to Phase 2 of the Strategic Defence and Security Review (SDSR) earlier this month, also includes the early retirement within five years of all of the service's Panavia Tornado GR.4 strike aircraft and the closure of three main operating air bases. It is hoped these cuts would allow the RAF to reduce its payroll by 5,000 personnel and cancel long-term support contracts with BAE Systems and Rolls-Royce worth in excess of GBP3 billion, according to UK Ministry of Defence (MoD) officials involved in the SDSR process. Hundreds of millions of pounds would also be saved by reduced aircrew and groundcrew training requirements for the slimmed-down RAF. The Nimrod cut would not save significant amounts of money from the GBP3.65 billion procurement costs of the aircraft because almost all of this amount has been spent, except for around GBP200 million to cover the final delivery of the nine aircraft during the next two years. http://www.janes.com/news/defence/jdw/jdw100716_1_n.shtml Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troffa Posted July 17, 2010 Share Posted July 17, 2010 I will keep it brief- In the words of the old chief "It's enough to make you weep" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabba Posted July 17, 2010 Share Posted July 17, 2010 Are we going to have an Air Force with no aircraft soon? This is cutting things back a bit too far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daz greenwood Posted July 17, 2010 Share Posted July 17, 2010 Jabba they will be on Bicycles shouting "You're dead You're dead". It's disgusting the way our forces are being cut back whilst fighting a War. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davec_24 Posted July 17, 2010 Share Posted July 17, 2010 And they've already paid for the bloody things (Nimrods), so why cancel them now? What's going to fill the gap that they leave? And what are they planning on using instead of Tornados? They're still an extremely capable mud-mover, and retiring them is going to mean potential risk to those who no longer have air support, or alternatively to those who have to fly aircraft not as well suited to the Tornado's mission. It's taking the piddle, I feel, and I suspect that a fair few on here feel likewise! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daz greenwood Posted July 17, 2010 Share Posted July 17, 2010 Dave as regards the Tonka. I guess that will be replaced in the mud moving role by the Tiffie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XV107 Posted July 17, 2010 Share Posted July 17, 2010 Will the RAF be cut? Yes Will the cuts in Jane's all come to pass? Perhaps, but... What I suspect has happened is that Jane's have got wind of a number of the 'options' papers which are doing the rounds as part of the SDSR. This normally affects only the Red Arrows (followed by the Express abandoning its coverage of Princess Diana for a couple of weeks as it first 'battles to save the Red Arrows' and then proclaims 'Victory for Express Readers' as the government doesn't take an option it was never going to take anyway...), but now covers pretty much everything. There will be papers going about about binning all the Army's MBTs, cancelling FRES, using CVF only as a very large LPH, etc, etc, etc. If you put all the stories Jane's has floated in the last ten days together, the RAF front-line by 2016 will consist of: Four Typhoon squadrons (because one third of the force is to be retired/sold off/scrapped) One Harrier squadron (plus the FAA GR9 sqn) Three squadrons of Hercules (2 x C-130J standard fit, plus 47 Sqn in the SF role); hopefully with A400M arriving as LXX reforms Four squadrons of Chinook (up from the current two) One sqn of C-17 One sqn of Bell Griffon (84 in Cyprus) Two SAR helicopter squadrons, in process of re-equipping from SK3 One sqn of an as-yet unidentifed medium lift helicopter (possibly NH90) for SF support Two sqns of Puma HC2 (upgraded for an out of service date of approx 2022) Two sqns of FSTA aircraft, which may not be the FSTA. One sqn (or maybe not) of Rivet Joint One sqn (or maybe not) of E3 One Sqn (5 sqn) with the Sentinel & Shadow One sqn (39) with a UAV which may be Reaper if taken into core funding, or may be something else. And that will be that (bar OCUs, OEUs, FTS, Red Arrows, BBMF) The problem is that if all of that comes to pass, as the stories suggest, the BBMF will be standing southern QRA if we need to send the Typhoons anywhere to provide CAS, while the BBMF Lanc will be used for maritime patrol... There will be blood on the walls after SDSR, make no mistake, but what we're seeing as confident statement of facts in Jane's are not as clear cut as the stories might suggest. Some bits will turn out to be true, but the rest is informed speculation - the difference being that as it is in Jane's rather than the Mail, it is at least reasonably well-informed speculation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enzo the Magnificent Posted July 17, 2010 Share Posted July 17, 2010 UK Royal Air Force (RAF) chiefs have offered to cancel the GBP3.65 billion (USD5.57 billion) BAE Systems Nimrod MRA.4 programme just weeks before the first production aircraft are due to be delivered to the service. Okay. Fair enough. But just what do we use for maritime patrol? And lets face it, Nimrods aren't just for ASW operations. They have a major part to play in SAR. Do we really want to give up that capability? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraxinus Posted July 17, 2010 Share Posted July 17, 2010 surprised they havn't recommended the voluntary sector take over the RAF!! at least we've got a few spits & Hurris and a Vulcan!! Perhaps they could bid to the Big Lottery for some ammunition & bombs!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shar2 Posted July 17, 2010 Share Posted July 17, 2010 It's not just the RAF. Dr Liam Fox has said that they should cancel both aircraft carriers so that we can still send money to the children of Africa, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enzo the Magnificent Posted July 17, 2010 Share Posted July 17, 2010 It's not just the RAF. Dr Liam Fox has said that they should cancel both aircraft carriers so that we can still send money to the children of Africa, That Dr Fox should stick to doing the Chart Show! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefr22 Posted July 17, 2010 Share Posted July 17, 2010 But just what do we use for maritime patrol? Coast Guard Islanders. And a rowing boat..... They should tax the bl**dy bankers to death & use the proceeds to pay for decent defence equipment. K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidelvy Posted July 17, 2010 Share Posted July 17, 2010 Of course all this may not come to pass, but it does fit in with the current drive to get us out of a recession by shrinking the economy. The MOD save money, but the UK defence industry loses orders and the DWP have to shell out more money in Jobseeker's Allowance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daz greenwood Posted July 17, 2010 Share Posted July 17, 2010 And I hate Job Seeker's Allowance £65 a week don't go far. But then when you get rejected for jobs, what can you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spike7451 Posted July 17, 2010 Author Share Posted July 17, 2010 And I hate Job Seeker's Allowance £65 a week don't go far.But then when you get rejected for jobs, what can you do. Become an MP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daz greenwood Posted July 17, 2010 Share Posted July 17, 2010 Mate with my extreme views no one would vote for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spike7451 Posted July 17, 2010 Author Share Posted July 17, 2010 Mate with my extreme views no one would vote for me. Ahhh...but think of the expenses! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daz greenwood Posted July 17, 2010 Share Posted July 17, 2010 Stuff the expenses mate I know I would let the forces have their own purses so they could buy stuff without running it past the Government. Just think if we did that we could have Armed Services on a big scale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Fleming Posted July 17, 2010 Share Posted July 17, 2010 The Army brass have done their bit to get well in with the new Govt - Dannant's association with the Tories is well known, and Cameron's personal insistence on selecting the new CoDS funny it went to a guy whose daughter had worked in Cameron's office until recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XV107 Posted July 17, 2010 Share Posted July 17, 2010 It's not just the RAF. Dr Liam Fox has said that they should cancel both aircraft carriers so that we can still send money to the children of Africa, I thought that was Andrew Mitchell, the Sec of State for International Development? (Swiftly pointed in the direction of his box and invited to get back into it, if rumours are to be believed...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bentwaters81tfw Posted July 18, 2010 Share Posted July 18, 2010 Don't panic, Mr Mainwaring, We'll just buy some F-111's of the Yanks...... like we did last time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Pulfrew Posted July 18, 2010 Share Posted July 18, 2010 I thought that was Andrew Mitchell, the Sec of State for International Development? XV107 It wasn't Dr Fox, it was Andrew Mitchell. Really joined up thinking. The country needs to save money, the Defence budget takes yet another hit and the money we save from Defence is then spent on primary school education for children in Africa! FFS. UK PLC loses the building contracts, Defence loses its carriers and the taxpayer doesn't see any saving. Great result Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg B Posted July 18, 2010 Share Posted July 18, 2010 And I'll remind everyone to keep the politics out of this please otherwise it will get locked very quickly. Greg B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shar2 Posted July 18, 2010 Share Posted July 18, 2010 XV107It wasn't Dr Foxe , it was Andrew Mitchell. Really joined up thinking. The country needs to save money, the Defence budget takes yet another hit and the money we save from Defence is then spent on primary school education for children in Africa! FFS. UK PLC loses the building contracts, Defence loses its carriers and the taxpayer doesn't see any saving. Great result My mistake, the thought of losing the carriers got me so wound up I misheard who it was attibuted to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefr22 Posted July 18, 2010 Share Posted July 18, 2010 XV107It wasn't Dr Fox, it was Andrew Mitchell. Really joined up thinking. The country needs to save money, the Defence budget takes yet another hit and the money we save from Defence is then spent on primary school education for children in Africa! FFS. UK PLC loses the building contracts, Defence loses its carriers and the taxpayer doesn't see any saving. Great result And again, if opinion polls are anything to go by, they totally ignore the wishes of the majority of the voters, who in just such a poll after the spending cuts were announced listed international development as one of the areas that should be cut! And has anyone actually heard them say that they have at least finally stopped the aid to China & India - because if they haven't then that is total madness.... K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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