Blue, Blue, My Love Is Azure Blue - and happily some of our paints are too 😀

[Test Graham]

So we have a statement that Humbrol are to do proper Luftwaffe colours, plus a match for Dark Green and Azure Blue. What else, I wonder?

30 is a good green, just not RAF DG. A bit short on specific modelling uses, unless you want a set of very early Martlets, perhaps. I'm a little surprised that they are choosing to change that rather than do a proper DG separately. Not all Humbrol paints are sold to modellers.

[Dave Fleming]

Lets just hope they base it on WW2 MAP Azure and not the BS381C colour.....

[Hardtarget]

When can we see the new formulas for hu30 and 157 in the shops or avaliable to purchase?

[yeehah1]

22 08 2012

I am assuming that Pheonix Precision paint is enamel based. What would be the closest match in acrylic-based paint? Hoping it's Lifecolor.

Liam

[Hardtarget]

Probably best give it a while though to get rid of the current stock. Have Humbrol stated whether there will be identification on the tin i.e 'new formula'?

[pigsty]

22 08 2012

I am assuming that Phoenix Precision paint is enamel based. What would be the closest match in acrylic-based paint? Hoping it's Lifecolor.

Liam

Yes, it is, and it's good stuff. Strangely reminiscent of Airfix paint in the way it smells (but in no other respect, thank goodness!).

[John]

Lets just hope they base it on WW2 MAP Azure and not the BS381C colour.....

They've responded and promised exactly that!

John

[John]

22 08 2012

I am assuming that Pheonix Precision paint is enamel based. What would be the closest match in acrylic-based paint? Hoping it's Lifecolor.

Liam

Lifecolor is a really good match for FS595:35231, which is what it claims to be. It's close, but a bit too grey and with no discernible violet component.

John

So we have a statement that Humbrol are to do proper Luftwaffe colours, plus a match for Dark Green and Azure Blue. What else, I wonder?

30 is a good green, just not RAF DG. A bit short on specific modelling uses, unless you want a set of very early Martlets, perhaps. I'm a little surprised that they are choosing to change that rather than do a proper DG separately. Not all Humbrol paints are sold to modellers.

It's probably cheaper to reformulate 30 at it's next production run than change all these instruction leaflets.

John

[Moeggo]

Its a bit darker & a bit more purple violet than the MAP Azure Blue but having said that, its not too bad, just a bit more intense than it needs to be. I'll do a paint patch & put up a pic along side the MAP colour chart but it might take a few days to get it done, I'm off to work soon.

Steve.

Thanks Steve that would be great!

[SleeperService]

Maybe going a bit OT but if Humbrol can get the fundamental colours correct with help from people like John, excellent work there BTW, then it means serious model makers will be able to get their paints from their local shop rather than mail order from where ever. That's got to be good surely?

Apply the same logic to the fundamental armour and ship colours as well I'd say.

[stevehnz]

As promised, a comparison of Mr Color 307 Azure blue with the MAP colour chip

As can be seen, quite a bit darker than the MAP chip above it.

It is though not a bad match for the ANA609 colour chip in the Monogram charts of US colours.

The same problem that John found with a lot of the other commercially available Azure Blues.

Steve.

Edited August 29, 2012 by stevehnz

[Moeggo]

Cheers Steve!

[Edgar]

The existence of a separate U.S, Azure Blue has always been fairly well documented (it even appears in a 1964 I.P.M.S. (U.S.A.)booklet,) but there's an anomaly, in U.K. colours, which should never be lost sight of.

In the pre-war British Standards range No.4 Azure Blue can be found, with 104 Azure Blue appearing in the post-war B.S.381C range; logic (that, again) follows that the colour went through the war, but there's a report, in the archives, from a British Standards manager, telling how they offered their help to the Air Ministry, but were turned down since they wanted to keep everything "in-house."

There is any number of communications between the ministry and Farnborough, who were entrusted with colours/patterns, etc., from before the war, and, in December, 1940, there's one particularly interesting exchange, in which the A.M. tell Farnborough that they'd been receiving complaints from Middle East H.Q. about the Sky undersides, which were totally unacceptable, so they'd devised their own colour, enclosing a sample herewith, and would Farnborough match it please. A second note thanks Farnborough for their "azure blue" samples, and could they produce more, please?

This brings the intriguing question; is that the WW2 Azure Blue, and (since the B.S. report would have lain hidden until 1970+) is that why manufacturers unknowingly got it wrong, until the appearance of the RAF Museum's camouflage book showed the error?

Edgar

[John]

The question of whether Humbrol matched BS Azure instead of AM Azure Blue is actually the premise that started this thread. I don't think that is the case though, as 1) the darkening and greying of Humbrol Azure Blue seems to have been a gradual process, and 2) Humbrol 157 doesn't look that much like BS Azure.

John

[John]

Looks like Airfix have finally given up on 157, even if they haven't introduced their new Azure Blue yet:

http://www.airfix.com/airfix-products/airfix-club-specials/a73006-hawker-hurricane-iid-elalamein-70th-anniversary--airfix-club-special-a73006/paints-and-accessories/?searchguid=20121010124957&resultspage=&sortorder=

John

[John]

Another update on the Humbrol Azure Blue front. They have confirmed via their Facebook page that the number will remain 157 but that the colour of the paint will be changed. I've suggested to them that it would be a good idea to change the colour of the lid as well!

Really looking forward to see what they come up with.

John

[Test Graham]

With regards to the possible source of wartime Azure Blue, can I draw your attention to recent information on a colour called "Middle East Blue"?

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=234931280

Humbrol's old Azure Blue looks much more like Mediterranean Light Blue, next to Azure Blue on the MAP chart, than it does to the prewar Azure. In my opinion, anyway.

[PLC1966]

Another update on the Humbrol Azure Blue front. They have confirmed via their Facebook page that the number will remain 157 but that the colour of the paint will be changed. I've suggested to them that it would be a good idea to change the colour of the lid as well!

Really looking forward to see what they come up with.

John

Mate, makes no odds, whatever Humbrol do it will still not be right for a percentage of people however accurate.

[stevehnz]

Mate, makes no odds, whatever Humbrol do it will still not be right for a percentage of people however accurate.

If its close enough to the MAP chip, I'll not be taking too much notice of what other people be thinking. Hopefully as close as Nick Millman says is as close as the eye can easily discern, about a difference of 5 in the Munsell system if I've got that right, will do me.

Steve

[John]

With regards to the possible source of wartime Azure Blue, can I draw your attention to recent information on a colour called "Middle East Blue"?

http://www.britmodel...topic=234931280

Humbrol's old Azure Blue looks much more like Mediterranean Light Blue, next to Azure Blue on the MAP chart, than it does to the prewar Azure. In my opinion, anyway.

Thanks, I've been following that thread with interest.

The current incarnation of 157 is really too dark and grey even for MLB, which looks closer to Humbrol 96 to my eye. 157 is, ironically, closer to RAF Blue Grey.

John

[stevehnz]

From my own observations the current version of 157 doesn't really match anything much & I believe it has probably been arrived at by accident rather than design. I certainly can't make it look like anything in the MAP chips I have or anything else.

Steve.

[John]

From my own observations the current version of 157 doesn't really match anything much & I believe it has probably been arrived at by accident rather than design. I certainly can't make it look like anything in the MAP chips I have or anything else.

Steve.

It's not bad for a faded Extra Dark Sea Grey!

I think you're tight about the evolutionary nature of the change though. I suspect that what happens now is that their contractor is asked to match the shade as it is in the pot, rather than as it should be in the standard, and they seem to be very good at that. I think an opportunity was missed when Humbrol had to brew up a batch of acrylic 157 for the Tomahawk gift set. Sadly, it matched the enamel colour perfectly!

John

[stevehnz]

I've got the gift set but will be going with my own mix or waiting for the new version for the underside, I really only got it for the decals. It continues to bother me that AZ models among others continue to quote 157 for AB. I really think Humbrol will be making a mistake to remix AB & call it 157, better imho to go for a new number in the 200 series as their new shades are & quietly discontinue 157. I don't think it would be missed by many.

Steve.

[Test Graham]

I sort-of agree about a new number, but it will only be a problem for a transition period, and all the kits and references calling for 157 will actually be right after that. The outstanding kits are likely to exist for a lot longer than the old stocks.

Edited December 23, 2012 by Graham Boak

[John]

Maybe the could rebrand the current 157 as "Malta Spitfire Blue Grey"?

John