Blue, Blue, My Love Is Azure Blue - and happily some of our paints are too 😀

[Seahawk]

Further to measuring the new Humbrol 157 I have now measured the old Humbrol 157 and compared it to a measured sample of USN Blue Gray (the colour Elliot identifies as Blue Gray 1).

Cue panic buying of the old 157!

[Work In Progress]

Is there a fail safe place to buy the new formula blue, i've got two tins of the old stuff I'll have the Airfix Tomahawk to paint soon so need some of this new paint

Cheers

Chris

Ring Airfix and order direct, specifying that you want the new formula.

http://www.airfix.com/contact-us/

[Nick Millman]

I had a similar experience with a pot of Humbrol Authentic Sky. It is probably of a similar age to your Hu91 and had been unopened for over 30 years. After a couple of mnutes strring I brush painted a small patch with the same results - smoothe, no dragging and a consistendnt matt finish. Oh, and of course, a nostalgic oily smell to take me back to my childhood.

Thanks for that. I'm not sure it is just down to EU regulations as I think there has been a production quality issue too. By way of comparison I also attempted to brush out a sample of 65. I say attempted because this was a 2006 era design tin which I understand was from production in China. The paint was lumpy to the extent of resisting even an electric stirrer and when I investigated I found it contained stringy lumps of a pinkish red sediment which were effectively impervious even to thinner, just coagulating into smaller, grittier lumps. It reminded me of brick dust and I was unable to eradicate it from the paint. Every time I thought I had mixed it another lump appeared and at one point one of these wrapped itself around the stirrer and I had to physically wipe it off as thinner would not dislodge it. The mixed part of 65 when brushed out was translucent and streaky with inconsistent colour.

Nick

[Work In Progress]

I do think you're right about a dip in basic manufacturing quality around that time.

[Nick Millman]

Btw while I was at it I measured the new Humbrol 230 PRU Blue paint too. Difference calculation to the MAP swatch is 4.57 with the Humbrol paint lighter and less saturated. More than acceptable for scale I should say. Workings, Humbrol first:-

L*a*b* = 44.19 -6.31 -7.22 vs 40.62 -9.39 -9.85

Munsell = 6.1 B 4.3/2.1 vs 5.3 B 3.9/3.0

Comparing the new Humbrol 230 to the old 157 the difference calculation is only 1.97 where 2.0 or less = a close match. 157 is slightly more blue-grey than 230 which has that slight greenish appearance so choice between the two could well be just a matter of taste.

(PS: on the L*a*b" values those are minus signs).

Nick

[keefr22]

Cue panic buying of the old 157!

I already did that when Nick mentioned it could be good for Malta Spits...!!

[John]

Browsing in the local Hobbycraft today I think I may have found a way to spot the older style tins with the new colour in them. I know that all 3 of these pots, including one of my new 157 samples with a repainted lid, are from UK manufacture:

Turning them over reveals a label on the bottom with a barcode and some numbers:

Note the new style "swirl" tin on the right, also with the same type of label. Add in a couple of older pots of the same tin design on the left:

and you can see that the information on the label is different. So, if I'm right, the UK manufactured paint has the label with what seems to be a 6-figure batch or lot number on the bottom. I'll go a-hunting for an old-style pot of 157 with a new-style label and see what I get! All the 157 in Hobbycraft today had the older style label so I left well alone. I did, however, buy a pot of 30 with the new-style label, so we'll see what that looks like.

John

[Seahawk]

I really hope that the mere presence of a label with a batch number on it is not an indicator of UK manufacture because the most monumentally useless tin of Humbrol I have ever bought (No. 5) has a label with an Axxxx batch no on the bottom. But you may be onto something with the 6-character vice 5-character batch number as an indicator: all my new-style Humbrol paints have a AAxxxx batch no.

[rod mcq]

The AA numbers on the bottom of Humbrol tins are not batch numbers. They are the Humbrol product codes from their order forms. For example Matt Black 33 is AA0360. The codes go back many years and are random on the enamels. 32 enamel dark grey is AA1506 and 34 enamel Matt white is AA0374.

Some tins tins don't carry the full code for example in the photo above the full code for 129 Gull grey is AA1420 but the bottom of the tin only shows A1420.

On the more modern acrylics the product codes are much more logical, acrylic 32, 33 and 34 are AB0032, AB0033 and AB0034 respectively.

Edited June 8, 2013 by rod mcq

[Harry Lime]

I don't think John was referring to the Axxxx or AAxxxx numbers, but the 6 digits underneath the barcode. For example, the tin of 157 has 134122 under the barcode.

Mark.

Edited June 8, 2013 by Harry Lime

[Seahawk]

I don't think John was referring to the Axxxx or AAxxxx numbers, but the 6 digits underneath the barcode. For example, the tin of 157 has 134122 under the barcode.

Mark.

Aha, get you. Apologies to John: that is in fact exactly what he said.

[John]

Yep!

J

[John]

For the first time yesterday I found a tin of 157 on sale with the new-style sticker on the bottom of an old style tin. If my theory is correct, it should contain the new shade of Azure Blue. I bought it from the Squires Tools stall at ScotModelRail at the SECC:

Note the 6-figure code at the bottom of the sticker that seems to signify UK production:

The moment of tuth:

*

*

*

Drumroll!

*

*

So there we are, a way to identify the new paint in the old tins until Humbrol get around to either painting the lids or using their newer style of tin. Not ideal though.

John

[stevehnz]

Guess they must of had a lot of the old tins & lids to use up. Thanks for the heads up on this, though I'm a long way from running out of the one you sent sent me. I've got a build coming along I'll be using that on shortly in fact.

Steve.

[chrisrope]

For the first time yesterday I found a tin of 157 on sale with the new-style sticker on the bottom of an old style tin. If my theory is correct, it should contain the new shade of Azure Blue. I bought it from the Squires Tools stall at ScotModelRail at the SECC:

Note the 6-figure code at the bottom of the sticker that seems to signify UK production:

The moment of tuth:

*

*

*

Drumroll!

*

*

So there we are, a way to identify the new paint in the old tins until Humbrol get around to either painting the lids or using their newer style of tin. Not ideal though.

John

I got one just like that from Hobbycraft. I go by the AA's on the bottom. By comparing new style tins vs old style tins, the old ones don't have them if its the rubbish older stuff. New paint in old tins have the AA's ans does the new stuff in new tins

[John]

I'd be wary about the AA numbers - the older production tins certainly have the AA numbers, it's the 6-figure number on the bottom that's the key.

J

[chrisrope]

I see, I shall be careful

[John]

As a post-script on this topic, I recently acquired a tin of the newly released Humbrol 44 Pastel Blue:

This is the first time that this shade has been available in enamel, but there was a previous incarnation as an acrylic about 15 years ago. I don't have the acrylic any more so I can't compare new with old. Many moons ago when the Trumpeter 1/48th scale MiG-15 was released I built one and finished it in LifeColor Middle Stone and Humbrol 86 Light Olive over 44 Pastel Blue. I remember thinking and commenting at the time that this was the nearest colour in the Humbrol range to Azure Blue. Brushing out a couple of coats of the enamel and comparing it to the RAFM chip shows that would probably still be the case if the new 157 hand't been introduced:

44 is a fraction less bright and might need the merest touch of a bright red to give it the violet tint that Azure Blue has, but even from the tin it's better than many proprietary ABs. The nearest visual FS595 match I could get was 35488, although 44 is just a touch darker:

However it's an almost perfect visual match for BS361c:172 Pale Roundel Blue:

It might also be useful for the bluer strains of RLM 65? I'll leave that to the Luftwaffe fans.

John

[Black Knight]

Humbrol 44 has been my choice for 'Azure' blue for years. Rightly or wrongly I also use it as the under colour on Desert Luftwaffe machines.

I haven't checked the enamel against my acrylic yet.

[keefr22]

John, I seem to recall reading somewhere recently that the new 44 was a good match for Sky Blue. I wasn't sure which 'Sky Blue' was meant, but as Paul Lucas gives FS14325 (which in my colour chips at least is a fairly dark mid-green!) as the closest match for BSS381 No1 Sky Blue aka 'duck egg blue', I presume the poster meant the Sky Blue apparently used post Battle of Britain for i/d bands & spinners. Is there by chance a sample of this in the RAFM book? If not, could you possibly check your patch of 44 against your FS chart for 35550 - Lucas gives this as the best match. My tin is a fair bit darker than my FS chip for 35550 (I have a set of 595A chips - I would hope that 595B colours aren't appreciably different, but you never know!).

Keith

[John]

Hi Keith.

44 isn't much of a match to either Sky Blue. Against the RAFM chip, 44 is much darker and more intense:

We've had quite a detailed discussion about RAF Sky Blue here:

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234957356-sky-blue-what-is-it-good-for/

My copy of BS381 (1930) is out on loan but assuming at least a nodding acquaintance between the 1930 version of Sky Blue 1 and the current Sky Blue 101, again the match isn't particularly close 101 has a noticeable green component, whereas 44 is a purer blue:

I haven't really looked at a Humbrol match for 1/101, but I'd probably start with something like 65 Aircraft Blue and add a small amount of 15 Midnight Blue, but as I say I haven't tried it.

John

[keefr22]

Thanks for that John - & for the link, I'd missed that thread, off for a read now. Your comparing of 44 to the RAFM chip looks very similar to the comparison I had to the FS chip Paul Lucas suggested.

ATB

keith

[stevehnz]

I finally got around to using the new Azure Blue that John sent me a tin of a while back. It went on well, covered a treat & the colour, oh, but the colour, superb.

Built as an entry in the just about to finish Airfix 2014 Hurricane Group Build on the ATF forum. Thanks again John.

Steve.

[gingerbob]

Steve, the whole picture looks violet!

Ah, me- this is all too much for me: "Ah, a Humbrol 147, 1974- that was a really good year. The '75 had too much bouquet, while the '73 is nearly as good, as long as it isn't a bottle that was stored in that warehouse in Dorking..."

bob

[stevehnz]

Steve, the whole picture looks violet!

Ignore the background colour, thats the paper colour I was using.

Steve.