robw_uk Posted June 22, 2010 Share Posted June 22, 2010 Anyone got any kit recomendations for a Wildcat/Martlett circa Operation Pedestal? If possible in 1/72nd... and details of any FAA decals available to cover this operation... cheers any other options in 1/72 for Malta (Allied if possible)...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben_m Posted June 22, 2010 Share Posted June 22, 2010 Anyone got any kit recomendations for a Wildcat/Martlett circa Operation Pedestal? If possible in 1/72nd... and details of any FAA decals available to cover this operation... cheers any other options in 1/72 for Malta (Allied if possible)...... If you're up for a challenge, use Azur's Maryland in 1/72 to make one flown by Adrian Warburton. The one in french camouflage and all worn out looks interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maltadefender Posted June 22, 2010 Share Posted June 22, 2010 (edited) Anyone got any kit recomendations for a Wildcat/Martlett circa Operation Pedestal? If possible in 1/72nd... and details of any FAA decals available to cover this operation... cheers any other options in 1/72 for Malta (Allied if possible)...... I've got the Pedestal Martlett decals going spare... will PM you! Here's a shot of the Wasp: Edited June 22, 2010 by maltadefender Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Test Graham Posted June 22, 2010 Share Posted June 22, 2010 Just to avoid confusion amongst the less dedicated: Wasp wasn't on Pedestal and that ain't a Martlet! If you are interested in Pedestal Sea Hurricanes, contact me offline. Decals are available, usually the confusing 7.F of 800 Sq. (7 is the code for 880 Sq.) You also see Malta-based Spitfires with twin Hurricane fuel tanks mounted under the fuselage for Pedestal, although I haven't confirmed a serial/code yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Posted June 22, 2010 Share Posted June 22, 2010 According to a book, on "Pedestal," the only Martlets were those of 806 Squadron on Indomitable, and there were 9. Edgar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robw_uk Posted June 22, 2010 Author Share Posted June 22, 2010 thanks for the info guys.. I also see that the Airfix 1/72 Hurricane kit includes a sea hurricane (also saw somehwere a comment that it was a MK II and that was not right for Pedestal)..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Test Graham Posted June 22, 2010 Share Posted June 22, 2010 Both Airfix and Revell do the Sea Hurricane Mk.IIc: the aircraft on Pedestal were SH Mk.Ib except for a single hybrid: an ex-RAF Hurricane Mk.IIb converted to a Sea Hurricane with a Merlin III. So a conversion to this aircraft (7.Z) would be fairly easy. (Note: on Sea Hurricanes the b suffix means hook and accelerator pickup spools, with an 8-gun wing - on RAF aircraft it means a 12-gun wing.) The Revell re-issue of the Vista Fulmar had a Pedestal aircraft, but I don't know whether the Airfix re-issue does. In answer to your original question, the Martlets were Mk.IIs, with 6 guns and folding wings, which (I think) were equivalent to F4F-4s, making the Hasegawa kit the closest(?). I'm not sure where the Wildcat kits are with regard to 4/6 gun wings, folding or unfolding, so you may need to consider the Hobbyboss or even the Academy (or Frog, or old Revell even, if you could find one). Airfix and the new AZ kits are out: the Sword could perhaps be reworked, as it is just an F4F-4 with a tall tail that you could shorten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Fleming Posted June 22, 2010 Share Posted June 22, 2010 In answer to your original question, the Martlets were Mk.IIs, with 6 guns and folding wings, which (I think) were equivalent to F4F-4s, making the Hasegawa kit the closest(?). Hasegawa did a Mrtlet II kit but I'm not sure it had all the subtle variations (e.g. cowl flaps) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iang Posted June 22, 2010 Share Posted June 22, 2010 9 Martlet II 806 Squadron HMS Indomitable Combat Reports for 'Pedestal' identify: AJ.136 AJ.102/8M AJ.998 AJ.968 Other possible aircraft, with 806 service: AJ.108 AJ.132 AJ.133 AJ.988 AJ.996 It is possible that this is all of them. Hope that helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck1945 Posted June 22, 2010 Share Posted June 22, 2010 All the Hasegawa Wildcats are F4F-4 plastic, boxed as -4s, -3s and Martlets. The instructions tell you to fill the wing fold, delete machine guns, etc for the various versions, but other than providing alternate front cowls, the actual plastic is basic F4F-4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redboost Posted June 23, 2010 Share Posted June 23, 2010 Just FYI, DP Casper produces a decal sheet dedicated to Operation Pedastal, but I'm not sure if it's available in the UK. DP Casper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCRanger Posted June 23, 2010 Share Posted June 23, 2010 9 Martlet II 806 Squadron HMS IndomitableCombat Reports for 'Pedestal' identify: AJ.136 AJ.102/8M AJ.998 AJ.968 Other possible aircraft, with 806 service: AJ.108 AJ.132 AJ.133 AJ.988 AJ.996 It is possible that this is all of them. Hope that helps Osprey Royal Navy Aces has 8M as AM.968 flown by Sub Lt J A Cotching? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iang Posted June 23, 2010 Share Posted June 23, 2010 Correct and well spotted. Let's start again. 9 Martlet II. Combat Reports identify: AJ.136 AJ.102 AM.968/8M AM.998 Other possible aircraft, with 806 service: AJ.108 AJ.132 AJ.133 AM.988 AM.996 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detail is everything Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 Did the 'Pedestal' Martlets have yellow tail fins? Not seen any photographic evidence but can understand if they did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Archer Posted November 5, 2023 Share Posted November 5, 2023 Yes, there is a "kit" of a Martlet Mk.II. The 1/72nd Airfix F4F-4 is a very good starting point ( plus it has folded wings in the box!). The conversion is fairly simple for AJxxx serialed Martlets. First, remove the carb intake and move it into the upper inner cowl. Remove the intercooler scoops at 4 and 8 o'clock. Remove the magnetos and move them to the rear of the engine. Use a pointed prop hub. Reduce the number of cowl flaps to two ( see: http://www.clubhyper.com/reference/wildcatfaaba_1.htm ) .  The same goes for the Eduard or Tamiya 1/48th scale F4F-4.  Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgeusa Posted November 6, 2023 Share Posted November 6, 2023 DP Casper at one time made a 1/72 Operation Pedestal decal sheet that did have a Grumman aircraft on it. The tail was not yellow colored like the Hurricanes and Fulmars. Don't know if this will help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iang Posted November 6, 2023 Share Posted November 6, 2023 There are very few photographs of Pedestal Martlets, and none that I've seen that show yellow fins. However, the August 8th Operation Order for yellow fin and leading edge markings refers to "All naval aircraft taking part in Pedestal," so it's possible that the photographs predate August 8th. There is colour film of Pedestal https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/1060011111 and around 8.30 various aircraft in flight are filmed, with Fulmars in full Pedestal trim. At 8.43 there is a brief shot of a Martlet. The fin is not visible but it has yellow leading edge Pedestal markings, so the assumption must be that the fin was also yellow. The Albacores in the film are not in Pedestal trim, which is curious in relation to the Operational Order (possibly the Albacore sequences predate August 8th). 3 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDriskill Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 (edited) On 11/5/2023 at 4:30 AM, Bruce Archer said: Yes, there is a "kit" of a Martlet Mk.II. The 1/72nd Airfix F4F-4 is a very good starting point ( plus it has folded wings in the box!). The conversion is fairly simple for AJxxx serialed Martlets. First, remove the carb intake and move it into the upper inner cowl. Remove the intercooler scoops at 4 and 8 o'clock. Remove the magnetos and move them to the rear of the engine. Use a pointed prop hub. Reduce the number of cowl flaps to two ( see: http://www.clubhyper.com/reference/wildcatfaaba_1.htm ) .  The same goes for the Eduard or Tamiya 1/48th scale F4F-4. Both Hasegawa and Arma released versions of their 1/72 Wildcat kits, with proper Martlet II cowls and props. Hasegawa's was a dedicated separate boxing, while Arma's is an option in their F4F-4 "Expert Set." Both represent the later AJxxx version, with simplified pitot etc. (I haven't checked the other important details Mr. Archer mentions.)  Both manufacturers also offer correct 1/72 FM-1 / Martlet V moldings, though Arma's requires some PE trickery to the underwing gun access panels.  Edited November 7, 2023 by MDriskill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tempestfan Posted November 8, 2023 Share Posted November 8, 2023 12 hours ago, MDriskill said: Both Hasegawa and Arma released versions of their 1/72 Wildcat kits, with proper Martlet II cowls and props. Hasegawa's was a dedicated separate boxing, while Arma's is an option in their F4F-4 "Expert Set." Both represent the later AJxxx version, with simplified pitot etc. (I haven't checked the other important details Mr. Archer mentions.)  Both manufacturers also offer correct 1/72 FM-1 / Martlet V moldings, though Arma's requires some PE trickery to the underwing gun access panels.   At least they apparently noticed that the ammo boxes are quite a bit larger in the FM-1 (and 2) - I wonder if any kit correctly depicts this from the outset? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDriskill Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 (edited) On 11/8/2023 at 3:07 AM, tempestfan said: At least they apparently noticed that the ammo boxes are quite a bit larger in the FM-1 (and 2) - I wonder if any kit correctly depicts this from the outset? The underwing ammo doors of the the folding-wing Wildcats are a long-standing pet peeve of mine, and goofed up on most kits. The two inner guns' ammo boxes are accessed by ONE door. Most kits - due to misinterpretation the maintenance manual diagrams' depiction of the ammo box locations - split the door into two fictitious skinny ones.  1. The Hasegawa F4F-4 / Martlet II boxings have the erroneous split inner door. 2. The Hasegawa FM-1 / Martlet V boxings simply omit the access doors for the outer guns from the F4F-4 moldings. OK for the top of the wing, but now the split underside door is also too short! 3. The Arma F4F-4 has a correct single inner door. 4. The Arma FM-2 has a correct, lengthened single door. 5. The Arma FM-1 / Martlet V has a PE overlay to "stretch" the door (it has the F4F-4 wing - not the FM-2 one - as the FM-1 kept the underwing oil coolers absent from the FM-2). 6. The Airfix F4F-4 and Martlet IV have the split inner door (and a lot of other problems).    Edited November 19, 2023 by MDriskill 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tempestfan Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 Those pics also very nicely show those two shallow blisters in front of the outboard shell ejectors on the 6-gun wing, that are not represented on any drawing (I know of) except Jumpei Temma's. According to Richard Dann, they were not depicted on Grumman factory drawings.  A long-standing pet peeve of mine 😉 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDriskill Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 (edited) The Wildcat has suffered countless copycat errors in kits and published drawings over the years. Mr. Temma is a treasure; his F4F drawings are the best out there by far - and were used to design the Arma 1/72 kits. Â A wonderful "modeller's shot" of an FM-1 for comparison (note missing tailwheel - ouch!). Also note the bulge behind the outboard gun is bigger, as it sits further aft in a shallower part of the wing - many kits make all these bulges the same size. Â Edited November 19, 2023 by MDriskill 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tempestfan Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 That was a magician pilot - "look ma, no hands, no wings, just on the prop!" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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