Battle of the Alantic Group Build

[Erwin]

Hosts: PHaTHesS and Phil Reeder with Erwin 'overwatching'

I must apologize to the hosts for changing the set rules of entries all the time without realy consulting them first.

I have been incluided as "overwatching" host as they have never hosted before. So from now on that's what I will do and limit my hosting in helping out when things need moving,merging,editing,etc...

I'm sure the hosts won't need my help that much.

Edited March 16, 2010 by Erwin

[gcn]

I have a number of those A/c in the stash so i'll join in on this one.

Sea Hurricane, Avenger or Swordfish for me

although I am quite keen on having a stab at a U-Boat as well but I'm trying not to add anything at the moment

[Erwin]

What ever your views on how this GB should be constituted, information on eligibility of particular models will

always be welcome. The Wings Palette website http://wp.scn.ru/en/cat/wars/ww2/167 lists the following aircraft types

under a "Battle of the Atlantic 1939-45" banner. What I don't know is whether this list is intended to be exhaustive, or

only to list those types for which Wings Palette has colour details. Anyway, here is their list, under national headings

Germany (Nazi)

Dornier Do.217/Do.317

Dornier Do.24

Focke-Wulf Fw.200 Condor

Heinkel He177 Greif

We MUST incluide the Arado 196 or I won't be able to build the new 1/32 nd Revell kit !

[Phil Reeder]

I hope nobody minds ,but I`ve drawn up a set of guidelines

for this GB.

Any Axis vessel ,(that includes U-Boats),Aircraft,that operated or tried to operate against Allied shipping in the North Atlantic,west of Lands End.This does NOT include S-Boats,or any short-range aircraft that operated against convoys in British coastal waters,nor any of the KM Hilfkreuser disguised raiders ,which operated in the other oceans of the world.

Any Allied Vessel,aircraft ,that was tasked in protecting ,either directly or indirectly,the North Atlantic convoys,but not vessels or aircraft that protected coastal convoys.

As for Dioramas ,something depicting a scene from the Atlantic battle,would be acceptable,eg a Sherman tank as Deck-Cargo,or a conning tower of a U-boat in a large scale.

Regards time scale ,I suggest from 3rd September 1939 to 8th may 1945,because some U-Boats were still operating in the N.Atlantic ,right at the very end(one torpedoed a Canadian minesweeper off Newfoundland a few days before VE-Day)

The southern limit would on a line from the West indies to Gibraltar,this was the USN sphere ,it was a bit warmer!!!

Anybody got any other ideas?

[Shar2]

We MUST incluide the Arado 196 or I won't be able to build the new 1/32 nd Revell kit !

As long as it was attached to an appropriate ship then you'll be fine. Talking of ships, you seem to have concentrated only on aircraft in your list. I believe ships had a slightly bigger role in the Atlantic.

[Fifer54]

I hope nobody minds ,but I`ve drawn up a set of guidelines

for this GB.

Any Axis vessel ,(that includes U-Boats),Aircraft,that operated or tried to operate against Allied shipping in the North Atlantic,west of Lands End.This does NOT include S-Boats,or any short-range aircraft that operated against convoys in British coastal waters,nor any of the KM Hilfkreuser disguised raiders ,which operated in the other oceans of the world.

Any Allied Vessel,aircraft ,that was tasked in protecting ,either directly or indirectly,the North Atlantic convoys,but not vessels or aircraft that protected coastal convoys.

As for Dioramas ,something depicting a scene from the Atlantic battle,would be acceptable,eg a Sherman tank as Deck-Cargo,or a conning tower of a U-boat in a large scale.

Regards time scale ,I suggest from 3rd September 1939 to 8th may 1945,because some U-Boats were still operating in the N.Atlantic ,right at the very end(one torpedoed a Canadian minesweeper off Newfoundland a few days before VE-Day)

The southern limit would on a line from the West indies to Gibraltar,this was the USN sphere ,it was a bit warmer!!!

Anybody got any other ideas?

Well, that seems to rule out my Dornier Do24T, which was operated by the DL as a ASR aircraft, not against allied shipping. I think I'll have to pull out of this one, the eligibility rules are

getting too complicated! I understand that it can't be a free-for-all and that some resemblance (at least) to the reality of the Battle of the Atlantic is necessary. A definitive set of guidlines

will be needed and Phil's seem as good as any.

The list I posted was from an aircraft "colour profiles" website (wings palette), which, understandably, concentrated on aircraft. No slight to surface vessels intended (or their submersible

opponents). Sorry if ship modellers or other Naval types were offended.

[Alan P]

Well, that seems to rule out my Dornier Do24T, which was operated by the DL as a ASR aircraft, not against allied shipping. I think I'll have to pull out of this one, the eligibility rules are

getting too complicated! I understand that it can't be a free-for-all and that some resemblance (at least) to the reality of the Battle of the Atlantic is necessary. A definitive set of guidlines

will be needed and Phil's seem as good as any.

The list I posted was from an aircraft "colour profiles" website (wings palette), which, understandably, concentrated on aircraft. No slight to surface vessels intended (or their submersible

opponents). Sorry if ship modellers or other Naval types were offended.

Well everyone just hold yer horses there!

Phil and i agreed that the eligibility of individual subjects that may fall outside the initial guidelines of the GB would be considered on their individual merit. As you seem to be fairly enthusiastic so far Gaz it would be a shame if you decided to pull out a full 9 months before the start of the GB!

Try us, we won't bite! I imagine that the actual guidelines will be a moveable feast until we get a good slew of prospective entries. It would be a shame to lose viable entries on the basis of dogmatic views of what fought where and in what capacity.

I would foresee this as more of a ship-oriented GB by virtue of the theatre (ie. a gurt big ocean!) but by all means make suggestions cos we want to encourage people to join in and maybe step out of the comfort zone a bit!

Alan

[Fifer54]

Well everyone just hold yer horses there!

Phil and i agreed that the eligibility of individual subjects that may fall outside the initial guidelines of the GB would be considered on their individual merit. As you seem to be fairly enthusiastic so far Gaz it would be a shame if you decided to pull out a full 9 months before the start of the GB!

Try us, we won't bite! I imagine that the actual guidelines will be a moveable feast until we get a good slew of prospective entries. It would be a shame to lose viable entries on the basis of dogmatic views of what fought where and in what capacity.

I would foresee this as more of a ship-oriented GB by virtue of the theatre (ie. a gurt big ocean!) but by all means make suggestions cos we want to encourage people to join in and maybe step out of the comfort zone a bit!

Alan

I'll carry on with this one then, I think I just got a bit flummoxed by all the controversy of theatre of war, eligibility of models and it seemed (at the time) to be easier to give up on it!!

So count me in, As I've said above, a Coastal Command Wellington was "plan B", but (hindsight is always 20/20) why wouldn't I model a ship? Must be years (donkey's years, even)

since I built a ship, I can't even remember what ship it was, oh yes, I helped my daughter build the Revell PT-109 when she was about 8-9 years old (she's 19 now!). I'll just need to find

a suitable kit, and then explain to SWMBO why I need to buy another one (I've promised her no more this year!- unless we visit a show!- or I find a really unmissable bargain!- or

the Airfix "Help for Heroes" Spitfire is released!) Any suggestions for a suitable destroyer kit, anyone? My shipping knowledge extends to a rowing boat on Heaton Park lake!

I've now got "other plans" for my Dornier Do24(see http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=45884 for another group build idea!)

[Phil Reeder]

Hi Gaz,

Welcome Aboard!!I pleased you decided to stay with this GB. As regards the ship(thats a wet thing that floats sea-water,usually covered in rust),could I suggest HM ships Montgomery or St Albans,that are under the Airfix label now.These are quite cheap kits,in 400th scale,so you shouldn`t much trouble with SWMBO.

I`ve built the Monty in the past,so if you need help with the colour scheme and details ,just contact me.

As to the Wimpy ,that would be Tip-Top,it was a type that saw lots of service over the Atlantic.

cheerio ,Phil

[gcn]

would the Graf Spee be suitable.

For some reason I've got it in my head a nice big ship should be on my to do list

[Phil Reeder]

would the Graf Spee be suitable.

For some reason I've got it in my head a nice big ship should be on my to do list

quote]

No ,I`m sorry ,I don`t think the Graf Spee would be suitable,as she was in the South Atlantic and Indian Ocean for her raiding sortie.However her near sister Deutschland(later Lutzow)did operate in the North Atlantic at the same time as the Spee.Where she sank three merchant ships,but was soon recalled to Germany after the Battle of the River Plate,and renamed Lutzow.

Sorry ,Phil

Edited March 18, 2010 by Phil Reeder

[Fifer54]

Hi Gaz,

Welcome Aboard!!I pleased you decided to stay with this GB. As regards the ship(thats a wet thing that floats sea-water,usually covered in rust),could I suggest HM ships Montgomery or St Albans,that are under the Airfix label now.These are quite cheap kits,in 400th scale,so you shouldn`t much trouble with SWMBO.

I`ve built the Monty in the past,so if you need help with the colour scheme and details ,just contact me.

As to the Wimpy ,that would be Tip-Top,it was a type that saw lots of service over the Atlantic.

cheerio ,Phil

Thanks for that advice, Phil. Sounds good to me! Looking forward to this now, how long do we have to go till the start?............

[Alan P]

Good to see you back Gaz!

how long do we have to go till the start?............

'S gonna be a long 9 months!

[gcn]

Hi Phil, thanks for the reply.

Could you advise a suitable subject in 1/350 for a maritime beginner

[Shar2]

Hi Phil, thanks for the reply.

Could you advise a suitable subject in 1/350 for a maritime beginner

There's always the Flagman or Revell U-Boats. Destroyer sized units such as USS England by Trumpeter, or their Victory/Liberty Cargo ships. All pretty good for a maritime beginner and not too expensive.

[Mal]

Both these aircraft are acceptable,Jassy,are you going to do a Stringbag,with the "Merchant Navy" logo,that oprerated from MAC ships?

The Arado will need to be from the Scharnhorst,Gniesenau ,Hipper,or Admiral Scheer,as these were the German ships that preyed on North Atlantic convoys,but not the Bismarck,Tirpitz or Prinz Eugen as those didn`t get anywhere near convoys.

Regards Phil

Phil,

As Operation Rheinubung was to attack and disrupt the Atlantic conveys I would of thought Bismark and Prinz Eugen should be included?It's just that it would give me an excuse to build Prinz Eugen,not the most successful KM ship but certainly one of the most handsome.

Malcolm

[Deacon]

Hi guys,

I'd like to enter this GB with the Airfix 1:72 Short Sunderland and the Airfix 1:72 Hawker Sea Hurricane HMS Nairana "Most of 1944 was spent in Atlantic convoy duties onboard HMS Nairana, and in May and June two JU 290s were shot down" (Fleet Air Archive).

Deacon

[Phil Reeder]

Phil,

As Operation Rheinubung was to attack and disrupt the Atlantic conveys I would of thought Bismark and Prinz Eugen should be included?It's just that it would give me an excuse to build Prinz Eugen,not the most successful KM ship but certainly one of the most handsome.

Malcolm

Hi Malcolm,

Yes ,I`ve changed my mind ,the Bismarck/Prinz E "Tried to"" get at the merchant shipping,so these would be acceptable.

Over the weekend ,I`m going to do a list of suitable ship kits,so that people can see at a glance if their choice is okay.Would someone do one for the aircraft side of things?

Cheers Phil

[Shar2]

Hi Malcolm,

Yes ,I`ve changed my mind ,the Bismarck/Prinz E "Tried to"" get at the merchant shipping,so these would be acceptable.

Over the weekend ,I`m going to do a list of suitable ship kits,so that people can see at a glance if their choice is okay.Would someone do one for the aircraft side of things?

Cheers Phil

Good luck with the list, that's going to be quite a selection of vessels if all the scales are covered.

Cheers

[smuts]

Hi guys, would a Coastal command Hudson MkIV/V be acceptable to enter?.

Andy.

[Mal]

Phil,

Thanks for the reply. You will certainly have your work cut out determining which kits are suitable, so many have the wrong fit for the time when they operated in the Battle of the Atlantic.

All the best,

Malcolm

[Phil Reeder]

Hi All,

I`ve worked up a list of Allied vessels that were engaged in Atlantic convoy duties ,that are available in kit form.This is of Destroyers and below,as for the the larger ships,most of the battleships and cruisers at some time or other were active in escorting the convoys,and hunting the KM surface raiders,particularly earlier in the war ,and dramatic events like the hunt for the Bismarck.

I will no doubt discover more kits that are suitable ,in which case I will update it.

ESCORT CARRIERS:

Bogue (RN & USN)= ISW 350th®,Tamiya 700th (IM).

Casablanca(USN)=Hasegawa 350th*

FLEET DESTROYERS:

V&W = Skytrex 350th (WM) Tamiya 700th(mod IM),Wem 700th®*

A to I= Wem Glowworm and Havock 350th(mod R),Resinshipyard 350th® ,Kopro 500th(modIM),Airfix 600th(modIM)Tamiya 700th(mod IM)

Tribal= Wem ® ,and ICM 350th (IM) *,Trumpeter 700th (IM),Airfix 600th(IM),Revell 720th(IM with ARK kit).

JKN = Wem ® 350th and 700th

L&M = Wem ® 350th and 700th

O = Tamiya 700th

Gleaves(USN)=Dragon 350th&700th(IM)

LEND LEASE 4 STACKERS( RN + USN)= Revell 240th(IM),Wem 350th®,Airfix/Mirage 400th(IM),Airfix 600th (IM)

SLOOPS,FRIGATES,CORVETTES,etc

Flower = Revell 72nd (IM),L`Arsenal 350th & 400th®,Resinshiyard 350th®

Black Swan= Skytrex 350th(WM),Wem 350th &700th®

River = Skytrex 350th(WM),L`Arsenal 350th®,Seal models 700th®

Buckley(RN Captain)=Trumpeter 350th(IM),Skywave 700th(IM)

Ex-US Coastguard cutter=Wem 700th®

MERCHANT SHIPS:

Liberty= Trumpeter 350th&700th(IM) ,I believe there is a resin model of a British M/S in 700th,I don`t know the name of the company that makes it,yet.

R=resin,IM=injection moulded, mod IM= modification to injection moulded,WM= white metal,*= not yet available

I will do the Axis side next ,if I`ve any strength left!!

Cheers .Phil

Edited March 28, 2010 by Phil Reeder

[Alan P]

great work Phil!

[Alan P]

Hi Folks,

Following on from phil's post, here's the lowdown on U-Boat kits in various scales - as exhaustive as I can make it at this time.

IM= injection, Resin and vacform as noted, * denotes recently announced or future releases.

So far as I know, most of these kits are still available, or likely to crop up in someone's stash or on the well-known online auction site!

Listings in scale order by type. My Top Tips for each class are in bold.

Type VIIA

Type: VIIA, scale: 1/350

manufacturer: Hobby Boss, kit number: 23503

IM

Type VIIB

Type: VIIB, scale: 1/72, name: U-47,

manufacturer: Amati, kit number: 168-493-4

Resin

Type: VIIB, scale: 1/125, name: U-47,

manufacturer: Revell, kit number: 5060

IM (cutaway with interior)

Type: VIIB, scale: 1/125, name: U-99,

manufacturer: Revell, kit number: 5054

IM

Type: VIIB, scale: 1/350, name: U-35,

manufacturer: Blue Water Navy, kit number: 35063

Resin

Type: VIIB, scale: 1/350, name: U-47,

manufacturer: AFV Club, kit number: SE73502

IM/PE

Type: VIIB, scale: 1/350

manufacturer: Hobby Boss, kit number: 23504

IM

Type: VIIB, scale: 1/400, name: U-84 w/ separate Wintergarten

manufacturer: Mirage-Hobby, kit number: 40410

IM

Type VIIC

Type: VIIC, scale: 1/35, name: U-556,

manufacturer: Andreas Miniatures, kit number: AN-S5S9,

Resin (NB. Conning Tower only)

Type: VIIC, scale: 1/35,

manufacturer: Accurate Armour, kit number: 6001

Resin (Waterline model)

Type: VIIC, scale: 1/72,

manufacturer: Combat Models, kit number: 72-034

Vacform

Type: VIIC, scale: 1/72, name: U-552, U-82, U-69, U-203, U-253

manufacturer: Revell, kit number: 5015

IM

Type: VIIC, scale: 1/144

manufacturer: Revell, kit number: 5054

IM

Type: VIIC, scale: 1/150, name: U-581,

manufacturer: Doyusha

RC/Diving model!

Type: VIIC, scale: 1/350, name: U-552, U-96

manufacturer: Revell, kit number: 5093

IM

Type: VIIC, scale: 1/350*

manufacturer: Bronco Models, kit number: TBA

IM

Type: VIIC, scale: 1/350, name: U-96,

manufacturer: AFV Club, kit number: SE73503

IM/PE

Type: VIIC, scale: 1/350,

manufacturer: Artitec, kit number: 55.107

Resin

Type: VIIC, scale: 1/350,

manufacturer: Tom's Model, kit number: 35014

Resin

Type: VIIC, scale: 1/350,

manufacturer: Seawolf/Torpedo, kit number: WF-08

Resin

Type: VIIC, scale: 1/350,

manufacturer: Blue Water Navy, kit number: 35028

Resin

Type: VIIC, scale: 1/400,

manufacturer: Heller, kit number: 1002

IM

Type: VIIC, scale: 1/400, name: U-576 / U-995,

manufacturer: Heller, kit number: 1072

IM

Type: VIIC, scale: 1/400, name: U-570,

manufacturer: Mirage-Hobby, kit number: 40411

IM

Type: VIIC, scale: 1/400, name: U-571,

manufacturer: Mirage-Hobby, kit number: 40049

IM

Type: VIIC, scale: 1/400, name: U-673 w/ Flakturm conversion

manufacturer: Mirage-Hobby, kit number: 40412

IM

Type: VIIC, scale: 1/400, name: U-826 w/ Turm IV and Schnorkel

manufacturer: Mirage-Hobby, kit number: 40413

Type: VIIC / IXC, scale: 1/700,

manufacturer: Waterline Series, kit number: 144901

IM, both subs included

Type VIIC/41

Type: VIIC/41 "Atlantik", scale: 1/72, name: U-995, U-307, U-295, U-1023, U-1002, U-1105

manufacturer: Revell, kit number: 5054

IM

Type: VIIC/41, scale: 1/350, name: U-995 w/ Seehund midget submarine

manufacturer: AFV Club, kit number: SE73504

IM/PE

Type: VIIC/41, scale: 1/400, name: Laubie, (ex U-573)

manufacturer: Heller, kit number: 81076

IM

Type: VIIC/41, scale: 1/400, name: U-295 w/ 2 Biber midget submarines

manufacturer: Mirage-Hobby, kit number: 40414

IM

Type: VIIC/41, scale: 1/400, name: U-1064 w/ Turm IV and Schnorkel

manufacturer: Mirage-Hobby, kit number: 40415

IM

Type VIID

Type VIID, scale 1/144, name: U-218

manufacturer: Revell, kit number: 05009

IM

Type: VIID, scale: 1/350, name: U-213, U-216, U-218

manufacturer: AFV Club, kit number: SE73505

IM/PE

Type IX

Type: IX, scale: 1/350, name: U-40,

manufacturer: Bronco Models, kit number: 5008

IM/PE

Type: IX, scale: 1/400, name: U-40,

manufacturer: Mirage-Hobby, kit number: 40045,

IM

Type: IXB, scale: 1/150,

manufacturer: Academy/Minicraft, kit number: 1442

IM

Type: IXB, scale: 1/200, name: U-107,

manufacturer: Nichimo, kit number: 2009

IM

Type: IXB, scale: 1/350, name: U-107,

manufacturer: Bronco Models, kit number: 5009

IM

Type: IXB, scale 1/350*

manufacturer: Hobby Boss, kit number: 83507

IM

Type: IXC, scale: 1/72, name: U-505,

manufacturer: Combat Models, kit number: 72-105

Vacform

Type: IXC, scale: 1/200,

manufacturer: Nichimo, kit number: 2010

IM

Type: IXC, scale: 1/200, name: U-505,

manufacturer: Revell/Monogram, kit number: 3102

IM

Type: IXC, scale: 1/350*

manufacturer: Bronco Models, kit number: 5010

IM

Type: IXC, scale: 1/350,

manufacturer: Commander Series, kit number: 8-002

Resin

Type: IXC, scale: 1/350,

manufacturer: Tom's Model, kit number: 35015 Resin

notes: Gulfstream kit.

Type: IXC, scale: 1/400, name: U-176,

manufacturer: Mirage-Hobby, kit number: 40041

IM

Type: IXC, scale: 1/400, name: U-511 w/ rocket launcher racks

manufacturer: Mirage-Hobby, kit number: 40042

IM

Type: IXC/40, scale: 1/200, name: U-511,

manufacturer: Nichimo, kit number: 2009

IM

Type: IXC/40, scale: 1/350*

manufacturer: Bronco Models, kit number: TBA

IM

Type: IXC/40, scale: 1/400, name: U-803,

manufacturer: Mirage-Hobby, kit number: 40044

IM

Type: IXD, scale: 1/72, name: U-505,

manufacturer: Combat Models, kit number: 72-106

Vacform (NB U-505 was a Type IXC/40 not a Type IXD!)

Type: IXD, scale: 1/350*

manufacturer: Bronco Models, kit number: TBA

IM

Type: IXD, scale: 1/400, name: I-506 (ex U-195),

manufacturer: Mirage-Hobby, kit number: 40046

IM

Type: IXD2, scale: 1/400, name: U-875 w/ Bachstelze helicopter

manufacturer: Mirage-Hobby, kit number: 40043

IM

Type XXI

Type: XXI, scale: 1/350,

manufacturer: Shanghai/Dragon, kit number: 1008

IM

Type: XXI, scale: 1/350,

manufacturer: Blue Water Navy, kit number: 35032

Resin

Type: XXI, scale: 1/144, name: U-2540

manufacturer: Revell, kit number: 5004

IM

Type: XXI, scale: 1/144, name: U-2540 w/ cutaway interior

manufacturer: Revell, kit number: 5078

IM

Type: XXI, scale: 1/144, name: U-2518,

manufacturer: Revell, kit number: 5081

IM

Type: XXI, scale: 1/144, name: Wilhelm Bauer,

manufacturer: Revell, kit number: 5072

IM

Type: XXI, scale: 1/350,

manufacturer: Seawolf/Torpedo, kit number: WF-01

Resin

Type: XXI, scale: 1/200,

manufacturer: Airmodel, kit number: AM-5000

IM

Type: XXI, scale: 1/72,

manufacturer: Combat Models, kit number: 72-70

Vacform

Type: XXI/XXIII, scale: 1/700 both subs included

manufacturer: Skywave, kit number: W-19

IM

[EDIT: Midget subs removed]

Pick of the bunch - the Revell new-tool U-boats in 1/72, 1/144 and 1/350 are outstanding, the Mirage Hobby 1/400 Type IX's are good for their age and size, Nichimo are very good for the Type IX but very scarce and correspondingly expensive (see below). The new AFV Club 1/350 kits, especially the VIIC/41 with Seehund midget sub, look very nice indeed! Hobby Boss (don't groan) are also releasing Type VIIA, B and IX in 1/350 this year and the initial reviews are very favourable.

Bronco Models are (re-)releasing a range of German U-Boats in 1/350, including the much-neglected Type IX variants this year! They look very nice indeed, watch out for them.

I'll keep adding them as i find them!

Cheers,

Al

Edited April 3, 2010 by PHaTNesS

[Shar2]

Oh decisons, decisions. That's quite a list. Ill certainly be doing HMS Kimberley when she was based at Scapa and if the GB is long enough I'll probably do either a Flower class or maybe even a Sunderland, not sure yet.