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'just Jane' @ East Kirkby.


Fmk.6john

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Evening all,

This might be old news to some by now but the Panton brothers were on BBC Lincolnshire this morning confirming their intentions to get NX611 'Just Jane' back in the air.......

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p006d...ing_18_02_2010/

Cue the slider on to 1 hour 17 minutes in where the interview starts.

Regards,

JB.

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Not sure that would be the case Tony as she is not fitted with passenger seats and the UK CAA do not allow passenger rides in ex millitary airframes IIRC.

Regards,

JB.

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Not sure that would be the case Tony as she is not fitted with passenger seats and the UK CAA do not allow passenger rides in ex millitary airframes IIRC.

Regards,

JB.

If that's the case John then I wonder why "Memphis Belle" had to be registered as such.

Tony :clif:

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If that's the case John then I wonder why "Memphis Belle" had to be registered as such.

Tony :clif:

Good call Tony, maybe it has something to do with the number of people who will be in the airframe during flight, not actual 'passengers' per say but 'operators', if it were possible to pay for flights in 'Memphis Bell' think of the que!!! would stretch halfway up the A1 LoL.

Might also have something to do with insuarance, a way to keep running costs down?.

Regards,

JB.

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Flights in ex-military aircraft are permitted under the provisions of CAP632.

For commercial revenue flights, I believe that an Air Operators Certificate is required. There is no restriction on the type of aircraft provided it meets current CAA/EU OPS regulations.

Good luck to "Just Jane", I'd love to see her in the air.

Bob

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Flights in ex-military aircraft are permitted under the provisions of CAP632.

For commercial revenue flights, I believe that an Air Operators Certificate is required. There is no restriction on the type of aircraft provided it meets current CAA/EU OPS regulations.

Good luck to "Just Jane", I'd love to see her in the air.

Bob

If this is the case then what is stopping 'Memphis Belle' and the Grace Spitfire from earning large amounts of revenue from passenger flights, or is it just that I havn't heard of it yet?.

Didn't the Air Atlantique DC3's stop passenger flights due to the CAA restrictions?

Regards,

JB.

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I'm hardly the voice of authority, but I'm fairly sure there is some CAA or EU or insurance small print that restricts passenger flights.

The same don't apply on the other side of the pond, where it is possible to go for flights in, for example, the Canadian Lanc (here).

I suspect that if there was the faintest possibility of offering rides in the UK, operators would have jumped on the opportunity to raise some much-needed funds.

Dan

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I took a friend to East Kirkby for his retirement present - A taxi run in 'Just Jane'.

I also paid the extra money to be his guest and this allowed me to do everything but the taxi run. This gave me the chance to climb on board and have a good look around (and take lots of pictures). During the day I spoke to the pilot and asked him whether it was airworthy. He said that 'it could probably fly but it would take about 2 million pound to make it airworthy' I think that it needs a new wing spar from memory and lots of corrosion repairs. I would be amazed to see it fly again but never say never. It's been talked about for years but never come to anything.

Fingers crossed

Pete

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You CANNOT carry fare paying passengers in a permit to fly aircraft full stop, Just janes spars have about 800 hrs remaining on them and it has been surveyed by BAe already, it also has had the first of the first of its flight engines delivered I believe.

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Just sheer admiration to the Panton Brothers on this. They are doing fantastic work, on this project and this just fires the imagination of seeing two Lancs in formation at Flying Legends in a couple of years time.

Could we eventually see Just Jane joining PA474 within the BBMF flight perhaps?

Oh man .......

Martin

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this just fires the imagination of seeing two Lancs in formation at Flying Legends in a couple of years time.

Oh man .......

Martin

I hope so, the lumps at the back of our throats would be twice the size!

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If this is the case then what is stopping 'Memphis Belle' and the Grace Spitfire from earning large amounts of revenue from passenger flights, or is it just that I havn't heard of it yet?.

Didn't the Air Atlantique DC3's stop passenger flights due to the CAA restrictions?

Regards,

JB.

John,

I'm sure that Sally B et al would love to offer rides. However, in order to obtain an AOC you also have to carry out a lot of other work including Safety Management Systems. Whilst I can't claim to be an aircraft operator, the company that I work for has to satisfy CAA/EU regulatory requirements and this includes an SMS. It isn't a small document and it has by necessity other complex documents allied to it. It requires us to conduct continual internal oversight, audit and submission to CAA. For a small operator, I imagine that the costs involved in this are prohibitive and the workload unfeasible.

As for DC3 operations, as I understand it the EU OPS regulations required that aircraft with 19 or more passenger seats had to comply with increased safety provisions. Once again, this made operating the DC3 in this manner unfeasible.

Bob

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John,

I'm sure that Sally B et al would love to offer rides. However, in order to obtain an AOC you also have to carry out a lot of other work including Safety Management Systems. Whilst I can't claim to be an aircraft operator, the company that I work for has to satisfy CAA/EU regulatory requirements and this includes an SMS. It isn't a small document and it has by necessity other complex documents allied to it. It requires us to conduct continual internal oversight, audit and submission to CAA. For a small operator, I imagine that the costs involved in this are prohibitive and the workload unfeasible.

As for DC3 operations, as I understand it the EU OPS regulations required that aircraft with 19 or more passenger seats had to comply with increased safety provisions. Once again, this made operating the DC3 in this manner unfeasible.

Bob

Again it is on a permit, the Aircraft has not been approved to any international standards, so cannot be on an AOC or carry Fare paying passengers......

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It amazes me, a yank, just how few of the classic warbirds are left. Another flying Lanc would be awesome. In the spirit, here are 2 in flight pics that I took at the Willow Run Airshow in 2009 of the Canadian Lanc. Also one in formation with a Hurricane and a Mustang. Hope you enjoy.

DSC_0421.jpg

DSC_0459.jpg

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Is it a coincidence that Dambusters II is hovering in the background? Maybe she would appear in that. Possibly easier for Peter Jackson to get this flying than wade through paperwork to get the MoD to loan PA474 and to get CWH's over the pond? Remember NX611 was on the UK civil register as G-ASXX.

MH

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I have to say I am a little confused about taking passengers. Some of you are saying yes, some an empahtic no. Delta Jets will take someone up in a Hunter for £3k (or there abouts) so it must be possible somehow. After all, plenty of celebs, journos, ect, manage to get up in these things. Why should social status or career be an exception???

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Is it a coincidence that Dambusters II is hovering in the background? Maybe she would appear in that. Possibly easier for Peter Jackson to get this flying than wade through paperwork to get the MoD to loan PA474 and to get CWH's over the pond? Remember NX611 was on the UK civil register as G-ASXX.

MH

It is a coincidence. The Panton family/Lincolnshire Aviation Heritage Centre released a statement yesterday confirming that there was no involvement with Peter Jackson or the associated Dambusters movie. As it's freely available elsewhere, here it is:

Official Statement from The Lincolnshire Aviation Heritage Centre-

It is fair to say that we have been considering making moves to fly Avro Lancaster NX611 for some years now; in fact it has been the ultimate ambition of Fred and Harold to complete their fabulous contribution to aviation history and the memory of Bomber Command.

In a recent interview with BBC Radio Lincolnshire Fred has confirmed what, I am sure, many people have been thinking for many years.

It has been our ultimate ambition to be able to restore NX611 to an airworthy condition but also keep her accessible for the general public to enjoy the sights, sounds, smells and atmosphere created by a Lancaster. For us to keep NX611 as a credible 'peoples memorial' to Bomber Command available to many people, no matter their background or financial situation (After all those that flew with Bomber Command came from every imaginable background) we must strike a healthy balance between keeping her in a good condition but also allowing the public to experience her.

As stated by Fred the end goal would be to be able to see NX611 take to the skies once more, but it will by no means be a short road to that end.

We are currently building up a large stores and parts stock ready for the possible 'push' for airworthiness.

The moves we are making- sourcing 4 airworthy engines, acquiring parts from all over the world, undertaking feasibility studies, sourcing AP's and the relevant paperwork - are all working towards enabling us to 'push the button' and let the Lanc feel air under her wheels once more.

There is no funding or involvement from Peter Jackson or the Dambusters film.

As with everything that has been done at the Centre and with the Lancaster the project will be self funded- but if anyone would like to feel that they have helped with keeping NX611 operational you are welcome to make donations.

If we get to the stage that NX611 is airworthy it will undoubtedly be called upon to perform in the air show circuit. There is also great interest and support from BBMF and RAF and I am sure that we will work closely together if NX611 ever goes skyward.

Airworthiness is the ambition and we have now confirmed that, but unfortunately there is much 'ground' work to be done before we make that jump. No move will be made until we are happy that we have built up enough parts and solved all the logistic issues.

Everyone’s support is greatly appreciated. Rest assured that we have the aircrafts best interests first and foremost in our minds. We have not striven for many years to sacrifice our achievements in one fail swoop. NX611 will always remain as a living memorial to Bomber Command; that is the most important duty we perform.

Andrew Panton

Lincolnshire Aviation Heritage Centre

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I have to say I am a little confused about taking passengers. Some of you are saying yes, some an empahtic no. Delta Jets will take someone up in a Hunter for £3k (or there abouts) so it must be possible somehow. After all, plenty of celebs, journos, ect, manage to get up in these things. Why should social status or career be an exception???

I think you will find it gets around the passenger issue because you become a member of the club and as such you have a "share" in the plane so you are not flying as a passenger, similarly you can fly in a Spit in the UK, that works along that line of if someone made say "a donation" to its upkeep and running costs, then the owner may well take you along for a ride.......... neither are passengers so neither breach that regulation,

The DC3 requirements are it needed an emergency slide as the door frame was an inch or so to high, it needed a bullet proof door to the cockpit and a lot of other things just to satisfy the requirements, a lot of them being unfeasible, a cockpit door for the likes of a 737 is about £50,000 which to an owner of a DC3 you will never recoup........ Oddly enough the DC3 in the UK has returned to the CAA coverage from the EASA one and has transferred back of my EAS licences to be covered on my CAA ones......

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Guys,

I think getting "Just Jane" back into the air is fantastic idea. It would be incredible for the UK to have 2 airworthy Lancs. Just imagine the sight of two of them in formation at an airshow - if that doesn't make the hairs on the back of your neck stand up...

The other key point about getting her back into the air, and I haven't seen it mentioned in this thread is the extension of the runway at East Kirkby. Currently, as can be seen from this photo, the runway is quite heavily truncated: http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=east%20kir...l=en&tab=wl - I believe, it weighs in at around 800 metres, of which 500 is concrete and 300 is grass.

In order to get Just Jane back into the air again, I believe that the runway length would effectively needed to be doubled in length, and as such eating up into agricultural land on the former site of the old airfield. Whereas this might not present too much of a significant problem, it would also be further cost to the entire project. It shouldn't be impossible, but will need an incredible financial backing - if it would cost £2million to get her into the air again, another £2 million could very easily be spent on the runway extension.

But it would be incredible to see her in the air... long may this continue.

Chris

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