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F111-k


Martian

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I have been challenged to build a model of the F111-K from the early F111-A kit from Airfix. I managed to get hold of a cheap example of the kit at Yeovilton but now find I am stuck. Do any of our resident brain boxes know what I need to do to the kit? also I'm sure I have seen a picture of an F111 in flight in RAF colours and a picture or two of the two Ks that were nearly completed at the time of cancellation but for the life of me can't remember where. IIRC the F111 in flight was an A model painted up in RAF colours for sales/publicity purposes and, if too much work is required to do a conversion this could be the way to go. Of course I may have imagined all this and just be going mad! :mental:

Martin

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To do the conversion, all you need do is a paintjob on an F-111A kit. The proposed RAF F-111K did not differ externally from the USAF F-111A. It did have a retractable fuel probe ahead of the cockpit, but just model yours with it retracted!

David

Edited by David Womby
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Hi Martin,

I am probably wrong on this, but I am certain I read in the Crowood book on the Aardvark that the K would have had the longer span wings of the FB / C and two additional pylons. The easiest way would be to do as David suggests. I'll do a check and get back to you.

Just checked :-It would have had the long span wings of the B/FB, heavyeight landing gear from the FB, the MK.II avionics based on the D (with many British components) some changes to the weapons bay and a centreline pylon, perhaps different to the aft one all Tac Varks had. The landing gear allowed (even) higher gross weights, and an IFR probe. Intakes were TP I ( I has the splitter plate found on the A, II has'nt). This is from Wiki, if you need some more info, give me a shout. The first 2 FBs were orginally built as Ks, hence the TPI intakes, the rest all had TPIIs.

Joel

Edited by Bandwagon 106
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Hi Martin,

I am probably wrong on this, but I am certain I read in the Crowood book on the Aardvark that the K would have had the longer span wings of the FB / C and two additional pylons. The easiest way would be to do as David suggests. I'll do a check and get back to you.

Just checked :-It would have had the long span wings of the B/FB, heavyeight landing gear from the FB, the MK.II avionics based on the D (with many British components) some changes to the weapons bay and a centreline pylon, perhaps different to the aft one all Tac Varks had. The landing gear allowed (even) higher gross weights, and an IFR probe. Intakes were TP I ( I has the splitter plate found on the A, II has'nt). This is from Wiki, if you need some more info, give me a shout. The first 2 FBs were orginally built as Ks, hence the TPI intakes, the rest all had TPIIs.

Joel

Here's page, IIRC from General Dynamics, describing differences between F-111A and F-111K.

F111K-Breakdown.jpg

David

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I was looking at Google to see if coild find the image of an F-111K in flight. My recollection was that it was a gull grey/white model obviously (and crudely) retouched photo.

Anyway what I found was this..........

http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/lords/1...-f111k-aircraft

If you go to the bottom and Lord Jellico's last quote, you will see that at one time it was contemplated that the RAF had both the F-111K and the Phantom at the same time(?!). My understanding was that the Phantom was only ordered AFTER the cancellation of the -K?

MH

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This is the pic of the F-111K in flight, taken at Cosford.....

DSCF0182.jpg

And a pic of one I built a few years ago using the Hasegawa EF-111A with the probe deployed....

DSCF1051.jpg

The probe position would have been on the centreline and in front of the cockpit, between the radome and a panel directly in front of the cockpit glazing.

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Pausing to stick my head briefly above the parapet:

I think the Crowood book is wrong about the wings - the F-111K was to have had standard wings - the idea of longer wings comes from a cutaway drawing done at the time showing the erroneous long wings. The main undercarriage was to have been the same as the FB-111, designed to take a higher loading.

This was all thrashed out on www.whatifmodelers.com about a year or so ago - a search there should bring up the threads on it.

Edited by Nigel Bunker
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Pausing to stick my head briefly above the parapet:

I think the Crowood book is wrong about the wings - the F-111K was to have had standard wings - the idea of longer wings comes from a cutaway drawing done at the time showing the erroneous long wings. The main undercarriage was to have been the same as the FB-111, designed to take a higher loading.

This was all thrashed out on www.whatifmodelers.com about a year or so ago - a search there should bring up the threads on it.

You are right about the wings, they would have been the short span ones.

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Maybe I got this wrong, sorry guys! I always thought the K would have long wings, but never really knew much about this version as it was cancelled!Got this from F-111.net-

"It can be confusing to distinguish which characteristics one F-111 type had compared to others. For example, the longer wings were attached to the F-111B, F-111C, F-111K and FB-111A / F-111G, but only the F-111F and F-111C were eventually fitted with the PaveTack Pod system. In an attempt to simplify the external differences, the following table is constructed"

And the differences of a couple of versions:-

F-111A TF-30 P3 / P103 Translating Cowl and Splitter Plate

Triple Plow I Short Light Analogue avionics updated by AMP

F-111D TF-30 P9 / P109 Triple Plow II Short Light First Digital F-111 equipped with Mark II avionics. Pulse Doppler radar.

F-111K TF-30 P3 / P103 Translating Cowl and Splitter Plate

Triple Plow I Long Heavy British (RAF) cancelled order of 46.

TF-111K

YF-111A designation also used at some stage, but different to pre-production F-111A TF-30 P3 / P103 Translating Cowl and Splitter Plate

Triple Plow I Long Heavy British (RAF) cancelled order of four as first two were nearing completion.

Trainer F-111K.

FB-111A TF-30 P7 / P107 Tripple Plow I (first 2) Triple Plow II Long Heavy SAC bomber. Analogue avionics updated by AMP. Some were to be redesignated F-111G.

Long / short = wings, Light / Heavy = Landing gear, TPI / II and Sp.plate = intake style.

Whether the wings were short to start with (as a prototype), I can't say, we need Mr.Vark! In the meantime, I think I'll stick to the shorty wing versions!

Joel

Edited by Bandwagon 106
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Max -Phantom was a P1154 replacement, not F-111. The RN's Phantoms were ordered in 1964, and the RAF's in early 1965; indeed, I'm 99% certain that the TSR2 was still a going concern when the F-4M order was placed.

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Max -Phantom was a P1154 replacement, not F-111. The RN's Phantoms were ordered in 1964, and the RAF's in early 1965; indeed, I'm 99% certain that the TSR2 was still a going concern when the F-4M order was placed.

thanks for the clarification!

MH

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If you need a picture, I refer you to page 115 of "British Secret Projects: Jet Bombers Since 1949" by Tony Buttler (MCP 2003) which shows the first two F-111Ks at the General Dynamics factory, one having been fitted with standard wings, whilst the other has yet to have wings fitted. Also, the artists impression on p 114 shows a camouflage scheme.

Edited by Nigel Bunker
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Kind-of on topic, but there was a brief period in the 1970's when Japan had also committed to the F-111 in one version at least. Subsequently cancelled of course, but the follow-on alternative contracts with Lockheed, which touched on Tristars for JAL created an enormous controversy with regard to dodgy contracts - in around 1975 if memory serves. Anyone know in what respect Japan was looking at the F-111? Reconnaisance maybe? (Naturally, it would not have been Strike\Attack...)

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If you need a picture, I refer you to page 115 of "British Secret Projects: Jet Bombers Since 1949" by Tony Buttler (MCP 2003) which shows the first two F-111Ks at the General Dynamics factory, one having been fitted with standard wings, whilst the other has yet to have wings fitted. Also, the artists impression on p 114 shows a camouflage scheme.

Are you able to post a copy of the picture as I don't have the book in question? From the description it may be the picture that I remember seeing somewhere.

Martin

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Are you able to post a copy of the picture as I don't have the book in question? From the description it may be the picture that I remember seeing somewhere.

Martin

This might be it - first two F-111Ks under construction....if not hope it helps.

F-111K.jpg

Also found this

1967.jpg

Steve

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Sorry for some confusion, but further reading shows that these two aircraft were scrapped, not converted to FBs like I mentioned the other day. From what I can tell, they never actually flew.

Joel

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This might be it - first two F-111Ks under construction....if not hope it helps.

F-111K.jpg

Steve

Yes and this is as far as they got before they were canceled, none ever flew and one of them in Steve's pic was a trainer too. There's an article about them in one of my Air-Britain magazines I get, I'll see if I can find it but the article says they were dismantled and used for spares for the USAF aircraft. The confusion about the wing length is probably because there was an 'A' painted up and with RAF markings put on as a demo aircraft, the photo posted earlier is probably this aircraft. These two also got a different wing hinge box which was for the extra loads the long wings put on the system.

Edited by kitnut617
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The long open panel on the nose section is where the refueling probe would have been sited, and of course it would have been retractable.

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The confusion about the wing length is probably because there was an 'A' painted up and with RAF markings put on as a demo aircraft, the photo posted earlier is probably this aircraft.

That pic actually shows the short (standard) wing.

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Just to add my ten pennerth, I could have sworn that the RAF F-111 order was subsequently transferred to the Australian F-111 order after the UK cancelled - and they were basically FB-111's and I too thought the 'K' model had the FB wings, reinforced by my belief that the Aussie ones had the long span wings!

But then I could be wrong!

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That pic actually shows the short (standard) wing.

Yes, that's what I said (I think), it's an USAF 'A' painted up like an RAF aircraft. The article I have read, which was composed only a few years ago, states that only the two 'K's were started but never finished. There's a couple more photos of the same scene as in Steve's pic, but taken from different angles, the article saying that the two aircraft were moved to the corner as shown when the order was at first put on hold. They were then used for spares when the order was cancelled outright.

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As a slight aside, all short wing Varks could be fitted with long wing tips which contained fuel, these made the wings the same size as the FB but as far as I know, they were never needed or used.

Joel

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Yes and this is as far as they got before they were canceled, none ever flew and one of them in Steve's pic was a trainer too. There's an article about them in one of my Air-Britain magazines I get, I'll see if I can find it but the article says they were dismantled and used for spares for the USAF aircraft. The confusion about the wing length is probably because there was an 'A' painted up and with RAF markings put on as a demo aircraft, the photo posted earlier is probably this aircraft. These two also got a different wing hinge box which was for the extra loads the long wings put on the system.

ooh have you a copy of the image showing the aircraft painted up as a demonstrator? iv not seen that one other than some retouched images

cheers, joe

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ooh have you a copy of the image showing the aircraft painted up as a demonstrator? iv not seen that one other than some retouched images

cheers, joe

I've been trying to find the article Joe, not been very successful at the moment. I did find some emails I saved when the same discussion cropped up on Air-Britain a few years ago, only it was further back than what I had first thought -- 2006. The magazine that the article appeared is in a storage container (along with a load of other stuff) so it might be a while before I can get to it. Anyway, in one of the emails someone (Mike Draper) had said he had been to or seen the 'roll-out' of the first F-111K and it was all in 'natural finish' and I had sent a reply and asked him about what was written in the BSP and what was used for the roll-out, to which he replied 'that he had forgotten about the book and now didn't know what he saw'. But I think I got it wrong too as to what was camouflaged (trying to remember) but the following extract from one of the emails to me probably explains what I had read and also would explain the photo that Chris posted. Sorry for the confusion.

> Did I also see a note on ABIX that the first British F-111K was camouflaged.

> I doubt this as it was rolled-out in natural finish. When we published

> "British Military Aircraft Serials & Markings" we desperately wanted

> pictures and eventually fell back on a shot of an "officially touched-up

> photograph" that was actually of an F-111A retouched with British

> roundels/fin flash etc. It appears on page 221 of the 1st Edition.

Looking through UK Serials (under XV and scroll to the bottom) website it would appear that none were taken on.

http://www.ukserials.com/

Edited by kitnut617
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