627 Squadron Mosquito B.mk.xx Questions

[Charlie Cheetah]

Hey all, having found a decal set featuring Gibson's Mk 20 Mosquito here at Britmodeller (Thanks Chris), I now want to start collecting info on this aircraft.

I believe the markings supplied are for Gibson's final mission, I will likely build it up as it would have appeared that night. I came accross a post mentioning that the Mk 20 Mosquitos (Canadian made B.Mk.IV) were not built with the teardrop bubbles on the side canopy glass but I have not been able to find any reference to that, the Mk 20 at the CWH Museum shows these in place? Could that one have been restored with different canopy parts.

One of the profiles I have found shows the underwing slipper tanks in place on it, I didnt think the Mk XX or Mk IV had the capability of carrying those, could 627 Squadron have modified thiers so they could? (That would be useful on the pathfinder missions they flew)

One final question for now, Gibson was on a pathfinder mission the night he died. As a Mosquito Pathfinder, what would the typical loadout be, would it have the cameras mounted in the bomb bay, would it carry any bombs at all?

Thanks in advance.

[jasman71]

Hey all, having found a decal set featuring Gibson's Mk 20 Mosquito here at Britmodeller (Thanks Chris), I now want to start collecting info on this aircraft.

I believe the markings supplied are for Gibson's final mission, I will likely build it up as it would have appeared that night. I came accross a post mentioning that the Mk 20 Mosquitos (Canadian made B.Mk.IV) were not built with the teardrop bubbles on the side canopy glass but I have not been able to find any reference to that, the Mk 20 at the CWH Museum shows these in place? Could that one have been restored with different canopy parts.

One of the profiles I have found shows the underwing slipper tanks in place on it, I didnt think the Mk XX or Mk IV had the capability of carrying those, could 627 Squadron have modified thiers so they could? (That would be useful on the pathfinder missions they flew)

One final question for now, Gibson was on a pathfinder mission the night he died. As a Mosquito Pathfinder, what would the typical loadout be, would it have the cameras mounted in the bomb bay, would it carry any bombs at all?

Thanks in advance.

Which manufacturer has made those markings? And is that in 72 scale or larger?

Sorry can't help with Mossie specifics, as it's not my area of expertise, but I tend to collect things 617 sqn related

[Red Dragon]

ADS Decals, 1/72 and 1/48.

Phil

Which manufacturer has made those markings? And is that in 72 scale or larger?

Sorry can't help with Mossie specifics, as it's not my area of expertise, but I tend to collect things 617 sqn related

[jasman71]

ADS Decals, 1/72 and 1/48.

Phil

Thanks! Will make a nice change from the Hawks

[Charlie Cheetah]

It's the old Aeromaster Mosquito Raiders Pt 5 sheet, # 48552.

1/48 is my scale of choice for Warbirds

Speaking of ADS decals, anyone know if they have a website, I've googled them but didnt find anything?

[Red Dragon]

Send me a PM.

Phil

1/48 is my scale of choice for Warbirds

Speaking of ADS decals, anyone know if they have a website, I've googled them but didnt find anything?

[Alex Gordon]

G'day Charlie Cheetah,

AFAIK the B IV and the B XX and the B XXV (all used by 627 from Woodhall Spa) would be able to carry the wing mounted external fuel tanks.

It would appear thatWg/Cdr Guy Gibson VC DSO DFC 's last trip was also his only operational Mosquito sortie(he must,however, have gone through MOTU to qualify him to do so). His career is not one I've studied in depth so I stand to be corrected.I feel sorry for Sqn/Ldr J.M.Warwick,who probably didn't want to be Gibsons Navigator that night.

Standard load for a 627 Mosquito at that stage of the war was 2X250Lb Target Indicators-Red and 2X250Lb Target Indicators-Yellow.Red to aim at and yellow to cancel the red if dropped in the wrong place.

Target marking was accomplished by dive attack,sighted by Chinagraph Pencil mark on the windscreen,from 5000ft pulling out at 1000ft.(Refer to F/Lts A Saint-Smith and G E Heath,both DFC,DFM RAAF who brought back some bricks from the chimney of the Gnome Rhone engine works at Genvillers near Paris in the starboard wingtip).This was done at night,illuminated from above by parachute flares deployed by the advance aircraft of the bomber stream.Generally 2 Mosquitos would be allocated to a target,4 if it was going to be a suitably good thrutch.

It was not unknown in the early days of visual marking,before the aim off method came into use,for the target to be re-marked because the original marker had been rendered invisible by going through the target factory roof.

Book to read on 627 Sqn-At First Sight compiled by Alan Webb first published in 1991 ISBN 0-951-7534-0-1.

A paperback reissue was published in 2002,ISBN 0-954-3244-0-4.

Have fun,I would like to see the finished result.

Edited March 17, 2010 by Alex Gordon

[Test Graham]

The B Mk.IV would not have been able to carry the wing tanks. The FB Mk.VI was the first to be able to do so, and certainly many of the later nightfighter marks were radar-upgrades of Mk.IIs with the same wing as the Mk.IV, which is why such marks they tend to come in pairs. I don't know how this reads across to the Canadian builds.

[Alex Gordon]

Hello Graham,

There are a couple of photos in the book "At First Sight" of DZ*** serialled Mosquito B IV's in 627 markings carrying external wing tanks.I don't have the book to hand so regrettably cannot give page numbers.One is in the Night scheme,the other in the Day scheme.

[Test Graham]

Interesting. Must be rewinged. They would have been getting pretty long in the tooth by then, so perhaps its not too surprising.

[Alex Gordon]

The joys of anomalies.I always stand to be corrected,however.

I would think that re-winging a Mosquito would be a fairly monumental task.

[dambuster]

A few more pictures here:

627 Sqn in Retirement

Peter

[Monty Python]

Charlie

B.Mk.XX did have the teardrop canopy fitted. From the ninth airframe onwards, they also had the ability to carry long range tanks under the wings. Still to confirm things regarding the earlier pm. Will let you know as soon as possible.

Chris

[Charlie Cheetah]

Wow, great stuff. Thank you very much gentleman. That helps alot. Anyone know about some resin target markers? Ill probably just try to make my own, I think I have some old 250lb GP bombs in the stash somewheres, should be able to make a decent start from there. Thanks again everyone.

Cheers

Ill definitely post some pics here.

[Av8fan]

Sorry,

Wrong plane, but, illuminating

Target

[Charlie Cheetah]

That was a good read, Thanks.

[593jones]

G'day Charlie Cheetah,

AFAIK the B IV and the B XX and the B XXV (all used by 627 from Woodhall Spa) would be able to carry the wing mounted external fuel tanks.

It would appear thatWg/Cdr Guy Gibson VC DSO DFC 's last trip was also his only operational Mosquito sortie(he must,however, have gone through MOTU to qualify him to do so). His career is not one I've studied in depth so I stand to be corrected.I feel sorry for Sqn/Ldr J.M.Warwick,who probably didn't want to be Gibsons Navigator that night.

Standard load for a 627 Mosquito at that stage of the war was 2X250Lb Target Indicators-Red and 2X250Lb Target Indicators-Yellow.Red to aim at and yellow to cancel the red if dropped in the wrong place.

Target marking was accomplished by dive attack,sighted by Chinagraph Pencil mark on the windscreen,from 5000ft pulling out at 1000ft.(Refer to F/Lts A Saint-Smith and G E Heath,both DFC,DFM RAAF who brought back some bricks from the chimney of the Gnome Rhone engine works at Genvillers near Paris in the starboard wingtip).This was done at night,illuminated from above by parachute flares deployed by the advance aircraft of the bomber stream.Generally 2 Mosquitos would be allocated to a target,4 if it was going to be a suitably good thrutch.

It was not unknown in the early days of visual marking,before the aim off method came into use,for the target to be re-marked because the original marker had been rendered invisible by going through the target factory roof.

Book to read on 627 Sqn-At First Sight.

Can't remember the ISBN,sorry.

Have fun,I would like to see the finished result.

Re Guy Gibson's qualification on the Mosquito, the biography by Richard Morris does address this. I can't find my copy, but I seem to remember that Morris states that Gibson did not do a conversion course on the Mosquito, but instead had a few flights in the aircraft. This has been suggested as a reason for Gibson's death, in that, when his aircraft was hit, he may not have had the detailed knowledge and skill to take appropriate action and this lead to the loss of the aircraft and the crew's death. This may be feasible, but I suppose that no-one could know for certain.

[Alex Gordon]

G'day Mr Jones,yours is in line with the general school of thought on this one.An eyewitness(details are not in my possession just now) stated that he heard the engines of a low flying aircraft cut out abruptly immediately before it crashed.This turned out to be Gibsons aircraft.In line with the "Just got in and drove" school of thought the eyewitness account bears out the sequence of events brought on by fuel starvation.

I am told that the relevant fuel cocks are located behind and below the pilots seat on a Mosquito and are not sufficiently visible to warrant asking the question "Wossoze For?". It is thought that Gibson was unaware of the presence of these items.Quite correctly you surmise that no-one will ever know for sure what happened that night.

[Alex Gordon]

G'day folks,

Read this link elsewhere on BM and thought it might be relevant and useful.

Edit-many thanks to Dave Gibson for the link.

Edited May 8, 2010 by Alex Gordon

[Charlie Cheetah]

Ok, thats a great find. Thanks Alex! I was suspecting some type of id band.

Edited May 8, 2010 by Charlie Cheetah

[Alex Gordon]

Photos of Target Indicators seem to be as rare as rocking horse thingy.I seem to remember reading that there was a 1000 lb variety in use too.Can anybody help with photos of either?

How is your build going Charlie?

[TheModeller]

Photos of Target Indicators seem to be as rare as rocking horse thingy.I seem to remember reading that there was a 1000 lb variety in use too.Can anybody help with photos of either?

How is your build going Charlie?

These any help? Skymarkers, via Derek Pennington.

I don't know anything more about them other than the info I've got in the pics, the first would seem to be a 30lb marker flare, the second is captioned as a T.I.

From what I've worked out while researching another project the T.Is were very similar externally to regular HE ordnance, hopefully someone else can offer more info.

[Charlie Cheetah]

Photos of Target Indicators seem to be as rare as rocking horse thingy.I seem to remember reading that there was a 1000 lb variety in use too.Can anybody help with photos of either?

How is your build going Charlie?

Your right about the lack of good photos Alex. Oh well, if I lose points because of inaccurate target indicators, I can claim ignorance. I havent started my Mossie yet, I have Hurricane Mk IIc-Trop on the go right now, I need to get that done by the end of the month for a regional hobby show. I may start it next for an on-line build contest. Either that or a 1/72 Revell RCAF Lancaster Mk 10 SAR, or possibly even a Luft '46 subject.

[Alex Gordon]

G'day all,been doing a bit more digging.

Interesting. Must be rewinged. They would have been getting pretty long in the tooth by then, so perhaps its not too surprising.

DZ 547 -'D'

Production gen from mossie.org

Dug up from here.

This would shed light on a few queries.

Edited May 27, 2010 by Alex Gordon

[cynicaljohnny]

G'day all,been doing a bit more digging.

DZ 547 -'D'

Production gen from mossie.org

Dug up from here.

This would shed light on a few queries.

Isn't the Mosquito at Cosford supposed to be matked as Gibson's aircraft? I seem to remember it being Dark Earth? and Green on the upper surfaces rather than the more normal green/grey?