Test Graham Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 Following after their Bombay, in early 2011 (yeah). Which may mean that if no-one buys their Bombay, no Harrow..... Get with it, people, order your Bombay now! Two different Bombay kits are offered, without explanation, and a Harrow plus a Sparrow. I can see my awful Contrial (sic) thing being slung out at last, but I think I'll wait until I have the Valom one in my hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Fleming Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 Mmmm, Royal Navy Sparrow..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 Mmmm, Royal Navy Sparrow..... Quite right: not having a FAA option on the tranfer sheet would be an appalling travesty. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avroant Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 I wish someone would issue an injection moulded Fairey Hendon... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 I might be tempted if Valom weren't so poor. Where did you see the news as their website is silent on the issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Test Graham Posted January 24, 2010 Author Share Posted January 24, 2010 I got the news from their website. http://www.valom.net/pripravujeme_en.html Valom are expensive for what you get, but I've seen (and sometimes made) a lot worse. If they can get the outline right (unlike their B-26) they are good enough. When it's the only game in town you play or go away......and when the alternative is Contrail that's effectively true. We aren't going to get a Tamiya Harrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 I might be tempted if Valom weren't so poor. Where did you see the news as their website is silent on the issue? I have a couple of Valom kits and they seem ok to me-not Tamiya, though..perhaps you might prefer to build a contrail Harrow! I am delighted that they will be producing this kit. Van Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 For what they are Valom are very, very expensive. I do like their subject choice but paying double the normal limited run prices (and here in Japan it is double) for an inferior kit is not something I wish to do even if it is the only game in town. One can hope they improve but they do need to think about their prices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 For what they are Valom are very, very expensive. I do like their subject choice but paying double the normal limited run prices (and here in Japan it is double) for an inferior kit is not something I wish to do even if it is the only game in town. One can hope they improve but they do need to think about their prices. If Valom are selling the number of kits they need to at the price they want to then they are succeeding in the capitalist world so beloved by many. Incidentally the vacform Sanger kit of the Bombay and Harrow are both £26.00. If the Valom versions are £35-£40 then, relatively speaking, they will be worth it. Van Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tripehound Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 Personally I applaud their bid to corner the market in obscure British bomber/transport types. On the cost issue, I deliberately ignored the Magna resin Brigand for two years while waiting for Valom to release there IM one, only to find it was considerably dearer. Sigh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Test Graham Posted January 25, 2010 Author Share Posted January 25, 2010 That puts the price into perspective. There are Valom kits I did not buy because of the price, particularly the Yak 7V, and it influenced me on the Albemarle and Hereford. However, I did buy the Firebrand, Willow and Spruce. I will buy the Buckingham and the Harrow. For high interest subjects I will pay high prices, and clearly that is true for other modellers. I'd be much happier if Tamiya did make a Buckingham, but that wouldn't be cheap either. I don't care to predict how much the Valom Harrow will be, other than more than expected. I can't speak for Japan, and certainly Valom's prices are higher than other limited run producers in the UK, but consider the price of new Hasegawa tooling for popular large subjects, despite the benefit of superior production runs and longer-lasting tools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coops Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 I noticed that some people have been commenting on the prices of Valom kits. It is worth pointing out that Valom are a small company with I would guess quite low profit margins. Producing a large kit on the size of Bristol Bombay is, I would also guess quite risky. The development costs are quite high (there are not many pictures of Bombays and drawings/plans are also hard to find, as far as I know, many drawings of Bristol aircraft still lie in the archives in Hendon, if at all) and the sales are possibly limited to the English speaking world. So in these economic times (difficult for small companies like Valom) we should be glad and willing to pay high prices if we want kits of Bombays and Harrows. I noticed that the Harrow is no longer mentioned as upcoming on the Valom website. If Valom have really decided to stop development, I think it will be down to one of 2 reasons. 1. developing a large kit is expensive and they don't think they will make enough money on it. 2. they cannot find enough information (ie photos, drawings) in order to produce an accurate model (have you tried looking for drawings of the Harrow, as far as I know many HP drawings were destroyed when HP went bust). So everyone should buy, no matter what the price, a Bristol Bombay when the kit is finally released. Only then might, just might, we find that Valom do then risk a Harrow as well. Oh yes and if anyone does know the where abouts of any Harrow drawings, please let us know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 Just because Valom produce a Bombay does not mean that I should buy. There are many factors in my purchasing decision and availability is not the only reason for buying. Cost is an issue - why would I pay a premium for something which is not an essential? This is a luxury purchase and if you want me to buy it, you have to price it at my expectations. Others may pay more and that is their perogative but it is also my decision - do not tell me I am obligated to buy. I am not. Valom are not particularly high quality but do charge high prices. For some people the subject is enough and they are prepared to pay. That is their decision and maybe Valom will make a profit from them. That is fine but for me I expect better quality (I am not expecting Tamiya quality) especially parts that fit together. Currently Valom have a poor reputation for quality in the market - improve the quality and the sales will follow. Demand that people buy despite the quality and you will find that sales will not follow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Test Graham Posted May 29, 2011 Author Share Posted May 29, 2011 I understand that Handley Page drawings went into the possession of the Handley Page Association and the last mention I remember was that they were stored at the RAF Museum. Have you tried either of these sources? To be honest, I do not believe Valom rely upon manufacturer's drawings for their models. Indeed, as model manufacturers have discovered to their cost (e.g Airfix Battle), this is not always a good idea. The General Arrangement drawings used by manufacturers are not intended to be perfect scale replicas of the item as produced. Their role was to provide an overall view of the aircraft and head the hierarchy of drawings, starting with the breakdown list to one side. From experience, they could often be based on a status several modifications behind the production line, if not entirely remaining a prototype or project outline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ptmvarsityfan Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 Following after their Bombay, in early 2011 (yeah). Which may mean that if no-one buys their Bombay, no Harrow..... Get with it, people, order your Bombay now!Two different Bombay kits are offered, without explanation, and a Harrow plus a Sparrow. I can see my awful Contrial (sic) thing being slung out at last, but I think I'll wait until I have the Valom one in my hands. One Bombay is the prototype with Silver finish, the other wartime camouflage. Think one features wheel spats and maybe they have different armament. I have the Valom Albemarle and Brigand, look good in the box. They also have a Saro Cloud pending, as stated before who else will make kits of these aircraft?? Cheers, paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tripehound Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 Eye-wateringly expensive it may have been, but the Brigand was a decent kit build-wise. I will certainly be tempted by the Bombay/Harrow if I can afford them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest toomanykits Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 I shall certainly add these to my collection as they will fill a huge gap (may have to sell an arm or leg though !!!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coops Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 (edited) Just because Valom produce a Bombay does not mean that I should buy. What I meant was that anyone who wants a Harrow really should (not must) buy the Bombay. I am guessing (as said previously) that Valom has small profit margins, so if the Bombay does not sell very well, then the Harrow will most probably never appear. Yes I agree Valom's kits are expensive, especially in these times of rising prices, but also as said they are a small company and times are possibly difficult for them also. The quality is not as good as Hasegawa, sure, but it is also not too bad and improving (what about that sense of pure satisfaction when one has finished a difficult kit and it looks really good). I guess I caught you on a bad day, I certainly agree that you are not obliged to buy anything. If you aren't interested in the Bombay, Harrow, Buckingham, Brigand, Hampden, Cloud, Albemarle etc then of course don't buy them. I would however guess that many of the modellers on this forum would like at least one of the planes in their collection. If they do then paying a high price is the only way. Who else would tool these planes? Edited June 5, 2011 by Coops Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 I am assuming you have some kind of connection with Valom - if not I apologise. What you are talking about is a kind of blackmail - buy this otherwise we won't produce a different option. I see no reason why I should buy one kit I don't want just to wait for another I may want and I see no cause for you to suggest that anyone should buy the previous product to get the next product. If you are really concerned about demand then conduct a survey and ask how many modellers would be prepared to buy a Harrow. If the numbers are enough go ahead and produce it. You take the risk not the modeller and you shouldn't be trying to shift this onto the modeller. Valom may indeed be a small company but they have chosen the subjects that they want to release. So far their efforts have been poor fitwise and their models expensive though the subject matter is of interest. It may be that the market is happy with this and that there are enough people buying the models to guarantee survival. That is fine by me - I make my purchasing decisions, other modellers make theirs. What I do dislike is the suggestion that I should buy what I consider an overpriced product so that the company can survive. It is your responsibility to survive not mine. Who else would tool these aircraft? - I am aure that there wouuld be other candidates, who would have said that a 1/72 Vildebeest would be released and that wasn't Valom. What I seem to detect is the attitude that you have a right to exist as a company. No company has that right - you live and die by the market. It is nice to see esoteric subjects being produced but that doesn't mean I have to buy them. I would be happy to see Valom survive and may in the future buy one though the cost will be a factor but I will not buy what I want and I will not accept any attempt to make me feel obliged to buy what I don't want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 I am assuming you have some kind of connection with Valom - if not I apologise. What you are talking about is a kind of blackmail - buy this otherwise we won't produce a different option. I see no reason why I should buy one kit I don't want just to wait for another I may want and I see no cause for you to suggest that anyone should buy the previous product to get the next product. If you are really concerned about demand then conduct a survey and ask how many modellers would be prepared to buy a Harrow. If the numbers are enough go ahead and produce it. You take the risk not the modeller and you shouldn't be trying to shift this onto the modeller. Valom may indeed be a small company but they have chosen the subjects that they want to release. So far their efforts have been poor fitwise and their models expensive though the subject matter is of interest. It may be that the market is happy with this and that there are enough people buying the models to guarantee survival. That is fine by me - I make my purchasing decisions, other modellers make theirs. What I do dislike is the suggestion that I should buy what I consider an overpriced product so that the company can survive. It is your responsibility to survive not mine. Who else would tool these aircraft? - I am aure that there wouuld be other candidates, who would have said that a 1/72 Vildebeest would be released and that wasn't Valom. What I seem to detect is the attitude that you have a right to exist as a company. No company has that right - you live and die by the market. It is nice to see esoteric subjects being produced but that doesn't mean I have to buy them. I would be happy to see Valom survive and may in the future buy one though the cost will be a factor but I will not buy what I want and I will not accept any attempt to make me feel obliged to buy what I don't want. I think you may have got the wrong end of the stick...and jumped to a set of conclusions with no evidence-why do you think Coops is something to do with Valom? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Test Graham Posted June 6, 2011 Author Share Posted June 6, 2011 I don't think it is necessary to assume any kind of connection. If a company (any company) makes an excursion into a new area, failure will not lead to a repeat but the company will look elsewhere. In this case the Bombay is a large model for a company like Valom, from a period of limited market interest. They are pushing their limits and if there is no adequate return then they may not wish to try such a similar model as a Harrow. From their point of view, why throw good money after bad? So those who really want to be sure of getting a Harrow have a vested interest in the success of the Bombay. The only way to express this is to buy the Bombay - pure self interest - or take their chances that enough other people will. A Harrow or Bombay is a much bigger risk for a small company than a smaller aircraft such as a Vildebeeste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 (edited) Van The last line of Coops' first post 'Oh yes and if anyone does know the where abouts of any Harrow drawings, please let US know.' (my emphasis) Christopher Edited June 6, 2011 by Christopher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shane Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 I am assuming you have some kind of connection with Valom - if not I apologise. I should think so. I've just red through this entire thread, and I can see no way at all that you could believe that Coops is connected to Valom, aside from the fact that he is cogently arguing (in a mild fashion) a point that you don't wish to hear. What you are talking about is a kind of blackmail - buy this otherwise we won't produce a different option. And this is near enough to insulting. Coops is using a particular instance to argue that Valom - or any company - needs to make money to survive. If no-one buys the existing product, they fail, and there is no future product. If they try to do something different - big subjects for example - and the first fails to sell, there will be no more kits of that type. Unless the owners are very brave or really want to become bankrupt.. For years I bought every kit produced by a small Czech company whose primary product was etched brass. Even expensive subjects far from my greatest area of interest. I'd imagine that the kits they made back then would have you frothing at the mouth, but they were buildable to extremely high standard if you wanted, and served to allow the company to develop better and better models. Of course, they also had an advantage Valom doesn't - another profitable income stream. FWIW Shane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shane Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 VanThe last line of Coops' first post 'Oh yes and if anyone does know the where abouts of any Harrow drawings, please let US know.' (my emphasis) Christopher You should also have emphasised the other dozen or more instances where he refers to Valom as an outsider. The internet can be a bother. Sometimes it is extremely difficult to understand even the simplest of concepts because there's little in the way of cues (no facial expressions or vocal intonation) and often it's impossible to tell whether a poster is using a second language because they're so *good* at it until they fall over an unusual construct. Shane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 Quite simply Shane I am objecting to an attitude that I am obligated to buy a product and this objection is something I am perfectly entitled to do. The initial message's phrasing is possibly someone who lacks a native skill in English but equally could well be someone connected with Valom. However, Shane I am puzzled why someone should try and persuade others to buy Valom - you might not be but then your posts betray a certain complacency. That is your perogative but it is also my right to comment on a point as I see it. You would do well to remember this. I now await Coops confirmation one way or the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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