Trumpy 1/32nd Buccaneer!

[TheModeller]

I don't give a stuff where my models are designed or manufactured. But I have to raise an eyebrow at anyone who purports to talk as the unofficial, unverified mouthpiece for unamed companies, and who then take umbrage at some perceived sleight on his unverified credentials.

The only person questioning Edgars 'credentials' is you, and who are you exactly? A bloke with a mate that knows some CAD and CGI? Hell I know some CAD and CGI, my 17 year old niece knows CAD and CGI! Those pictures are not of a CAD model.

Perhaps you should have a look at the back-and-forth on LSM and other threads here regarding Edgars involvement with Trumpeters designer on this project before raising that eyebrow. I've known Edgar for many years, I'm well aware of his contribution to the hobby dating back many years and I'll take his word on his involvement with any of Trumpeters projects because he's as honest and trustworthy as they come, you on the other hand are a complete mystery and I feel more than a little out of order in your approach to Edgar.

I've no great love of Trumpeters products, as far as I'm concerned the bulk of the kits they've made of subjects that interest me have turned out to be overpriced crap, I have thier 1/48th Seahawk and Wyvern, and I'm after a 1/24th Mk.I Hurricane, I might drop for a 1/32nd Swordfish but I'm not keen on the overdone rendition of the fabric wing surfaces. Even if they do eventually produce a 1/48th or 1/32nd Bucc I'll see what the reviews and styrene are like before handing over my hard earned.

All the same, to insinuate there is some sort of scam going on just because they've not said anything about a release date is a bit extreme, as I recall they've had a number of 1/32nd kits in thier catalog far longer that the Bucc that still haven't seen the light of day! I think our colonial cousins are eagerly awaiting an EA-6B and an TBD(?)

I'll repeat the question. Am I wasting my time producing a scratch built 1/32 Buccaneer?

Not at all. The sooner you get it finished the sooner Trumpeter will get a kit on the market for the rest of us, and of course you'll be too busy to keep getting up Edgars nose.

After all, the rumours and the pictures have been around for about a year now. Isn't it reasonable to expect some feedback, given that the whole purported point of publishing the pics in the first place was to guage opinion?

But you're not offering any opinions are you, you making demands of a manufacturer about a potential project that may or may not come to fruition, perhaps an e-mail direct to Trumpeter might be a good starting point rather than casting aspersions on the 'credentials' of fellow members of this forum.

[Scratcher]

The only person questioning Edgars 'credentials' is you, and who are you exactly? A bloke with a mate that knows some CAD and CGI? Hell I know some CAD and CGI, my 17 year old niece knows CAD and CGI! Those pictures are not of a CAD model.

Perhaps you should have a look at the back-and-forth on LSM and other threads here regarding Edgars involvement with Trumpeters designer on this project before raising that eyebrow. I've known Edgar for many years, I'm well aware of his contribution to the hobby dating back many years and I'll take his word on his involvement with any of Trumpeters projects because he's as honest and trustworthy as they come, you on the other hand are a complete mystery and I feel more than a little out of order in your approach to Edgar.

I've no great love of Trumpeters products, as far as I'm concerned the bulk of the kits they've made of subjects that interest me have turned out to be overpriced crap, I have thier 1/48th Seahawk and Wyvern, and I'm after a 1/24th Mk.I Hurricane, I might drop for a 1/32nd Swordfish but I'm not keen on the overdone rendition of the fabric wing surfaces. Even if they do eventually produce a 1/48th or 1/32nd Bucc I'll see what the reviews and styrene are like before handing over my hard earned.

All the same, to insinuate there is some sort of scam going on just because they've not said anything about a release date is a bit extreme, as I recall they've had a number of 1/32nd kits in thier catalog far longer that the Bucc that still haven't seen the light of day! I think our colonial cousins are eagerly awaiting an EA-6B and an TBD(?)

Not at all. The sooner you get it finished the sooner Trumpeter will get a kit on the market for the rest of us, and of course you'll be too busy to keep getting up Edgars nose.

But you're not offering any opinions are you, you making demands of a manufacturer about a potential project that may or may not come to fruition, perhaps an e-mail direct to Trumpeter might be a good starting point rather than casting aspersions on the 'credentials' of fellow members of this forum.

Questioning the legitimacy of claims is out of order? I have to provide some credentials before I'm allowed to express scepticism? Is there a secret password or handshake before I'm a member of this 'order'?

I dare say your neice has some experience of CAD and CGI. I dare say she doesn't do it for a living at a 3 figure hourly rate. You will note that I have some scepticism of my 'mate' too. I expressed his opinion of the pictures, and I have his promise to analyse them as well. I hope they do turn out to be the real thing.

I haven't spent the time to follow Edgars posts on various forums over the years - that's true, and I appreciate your character reference for Edgar. I'm sure he will too. However, I am using all the posts and stories I've read by Googling 'TRUMPETER 1/32 Buccaneer' and '1/32 Buccaneer'. That in itself is a body of work to study. Unfortunately it is a fruitless task, beyond extracting rumours.

I asked a few pertinent questions. I do not expect to be criticised for not researching a posters entire history, especially when the relevant topic, a 1/32 Buccaneer, contains very little in the way of fact or verifiable evidence, beyond a few tantalising pictures of dubious scale and, possibly, dubious provenance. Set aside your trust in Edgar for a moment and look at the objective evidence for a 1/32 Buccaneer.

1) Some photos

2) Sorry, there is no '2)'

On the other hand, look at the rest of the story, the subjective evidence, as it appears on the 1/32 Buccaneer threads.

1) Some photos with no scale reference

2) A Mr. Song, who is conspicuous by his absence

3) Faith in Edgar, who we are supposed to research, beyond all things Buccaneer, before we dare ask questions

4) A lot of wishful thinking

5) No comment from the company who are supposed to have published the photos, apparently to ask for comments

6) Howls of protest when anyone dares to question the veracity of the previous 4 points

It's not just the release date, It's whether the thing exists, and is in 1/32 scale even if it does. - Something you don't seem sure of yourself.

And as for, 'The sooner you get it finished the sooner Trumpeter will get a kit on the market for the rest of us, and of course you'll be too busy to keep getting up Edgars nose.'- that's just downright rude. Hence my own, possibly immoderate, reply to your post.

As for emailing Trumpeter - http://www.trumpeter-china.com/plus/guestbook.php?lang=en didn't get me a response. Well, to paraphrase Pete and Dudley, I'm not taking no response for an answer!

Honestly, I really, really would love to be proved wrong here! If I am, I'll donate my first completed 1/32 Trumpeter Buccaneer to a worthwhile cause.

Edited January 2, 2011 by Scratcher

[John Laidlaw]

Sorry, can't stay out of this one.

Ok, I don't mean to be difficult here, but it seems to me that what you're saying is you have some inside information which you'll hint at, but the relationship between you and the manufacturers means you have to be careful what you say.

And your point is what? That it's unacceptable (to you) for someone to keep to their word-of-mouth agreement (detailed perfectly clearly in an earlier post)?

I don't give a stuff where my models are designed or manufactured. But I have to raise an eyebrow at anyone who purports to talk as the unofficial, unverified mouthpiece for unamed companies, and who then take umbrage at some perceived sleight on his unverified credentials.

Good for you. Please raise as many eyebrows as you wish. Then, please, explain why you (who pops up out of apparently nowhere), should be given greater credence than someone well-known for their technical knowledge, helpful attitude, and (sorry about this bit, mate) unimpeachable veracity. That would be really very helpful, thank you. Do a little research on Edgar, and you'll find he's an absolute goldmine of information, happy to share said information with anybody who asks nicely (as is his right), perfectly happy to learn new stuff, and a real gentleman. In short, he deserves respect. Do you understand what that means?

I'll repeat the question. Am I wasting my time producing a scratch built 1/32 Buccaneer?

Simple answer: no, of course you aren't. Go for it. Please post the results of said scratchbuild so that we may all admire it and learn from it (all said without any sarcasm whatsoever). It really doesn't matter whether a kit is produced or not, in the end, for goodness sake - if you want to build it, build it! Good grief! Get the toys back in the pram and stop acting like people owe you something.

[Mark]

Crikey, this one's more like reading PPRuNe than Britmodeller!

[viper-30]

Why dont you just make your 1/32 bucc and show us all how it comes along .

ill make my 1/32 aerodynamix bucc when i move house and have room.

[thx6667]

What I said was that someone I know, and who has an advanced knowledge of computer modelling and CGI techniques was sceptical about the origin of the pictures. I asked if we were the victims of a wind up. I hope as much as anybody here that it isn't. A couple of posters included similar photos with an actual model as the outcome. As I said, this makes me more hopeful that the Bucc pics weren't just CGI.

Yes, I did choose to question Edgar. What's wrong with that? What's wrong with scepticism? It's not a sleight on someones integrity to ask them for some evidence is it? After all, the rumours and the pictures have been around for about a year now. Isn't it reasonable to expect some feedback, given that the whole purported point of publishing the pics in the first place was to get opinions? It is precisely, as you said, the rumour and innuendo which is frustrating me.

I really don't want to turn this thread into an argument. My interest is in building a 1/32 Bucc. But for goodness sake, where is it? Will it exist? Will I be able to buy one?

Well turning up here and questioning one of the most respected, informed and trusted members here who's integrity can be vouched for with ease, while no one has a clue who you are or this mysterious, unnamed CGI expert who reckons its all a bunch of fakery doesn't really make for a good first impression does it? Its nothing to do with secret handshakes just basic manners and etiquette really. And if you think its fine to question Edgar then be prepared to be questioned yourself.

And besides, why should Mr Song, Trumpeter et al dance to a tune of your choosing? Maybe they cast their net wide to find informed sources and then conduct their business with trusted, discreet, confidants. Just because its not being played out in the open for your own personal satisfaction does not mean some form of dialogue and feedback isn't taking place.

Whether they do a 1/32 Bucc isn't my beeswax. It would be nice, but their plans are their plans, whether they choose to go ahead, cancel, change scale, mould it in Marmite is something for them to decide in their time.

Edited January 2, 2011 by Jonathan Mock

[Andrew Jones]

Reading this thread reminds me of something I saw on another forum,

" Starting an argument on the internet is like racing in an Imprezza, you still look like a ****** if you win"

[Mike]

Yeah... and the next person to continue this silly row over nothing gets into trouble with your benign overlords.

For the benefit of new member "Scratcher", That's John, Greg and I

[Scratcher]

I do not believe I have shown any disrespect to anybody on this forum, beyond a little well deserved sarcasm aimed at The Modeller. If Edgar feels that I have, then he has my apologies.

I shall indeed start on a scratch build, by the way, and I'll post pictures as it progresses. I'll still be p****d off if Trumpeter beat me to it though.

Edited January 2, 2011 by Scratcher

[TheModeller]

I do not believe I have shown any disrespect to anybody on this forum, beyond a little well deserved sarcasm aimed at The Modeller.

Never mind son, having been around a good many years I've developed quite a thick skin, sarcasm seldom registers with me these days.

[drdave]

Scratchers not Chox in disguise is he? Topic and tone are not dissimilar....

[Scratcher]

Scratchers not Chox in disguise is he? Topic and tone are not dissimilar....

No, but that doesn't really help...

And I've decided to go for 1/24th. At least nobody has one planned!