mrvr6 Posted May 8, 2011 Share Posted May 8, 2011 I use Tamiya Gloss Black from a rattle can for this sort of work and have had no issues with it.Martin im goin to buy a rattle can today see how it goes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
general melchett Posted May 8, 2011 Share Posted May 8, 2011 I use Alclads own gloss black 'primer', it's purpose made for this and works well. That looks better Martin and I would definitly consider sealing the finish as it is known to be a little less robust than the others in the range. Just to clear things up Alclads high gloss finishes such as chrome, polished aluminium and stainless steel, etc all require a smooth, blemish free gloss black 'primer' base so that the reflective nature of the finish will work. Alclad also recommend applying their Alclad clear base before the final finish too. The 'normal' metallic finishes in the range work with grey or white primers such as Halfords auto products. Plastic primers and auto primers should be lightly polished with 1000/1200 wet & dry pape or Micro Mesh to give a less absorbent, smooth surface. Oh and be careful if using decal solutions such as Micro-sol directly over the high gloss finishes as if can marr the surface finish. Melchie... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martian Posted May 8, 2011 Author Share Posted May 8, 2011 Thanks General. Don't worry this had a sealing coat yesterday evening, there was no way, after all the hassle I had with it, that I was going to leave it unprotected and risk having to start again. I chose to go with Tamiya Gloss Black as I remembered reading somewhere that the Alclad stuff can have a tendency to crack with age whereas Tamiya is OK in this respect. Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martian Posted May 8, 2011 Author Share Posted May 8, 2011 (edited) Readers of this thread may recall sometme ago we had a debate about the merits, or otherwise of using the CMK canopy set. General Melchett's seemed to be fine whereas mine was pants. Anyway I decieded in the end to go with the kit canopies. My reasoning behind this is that the Eduard masking set was designed to fit the kit items and that these detailing sets are not mastered by supermen, just plain ordinary modellers like you or I; so there was no real reason why I couldn't do the work myself. Therefore this morning I have been happily bending bits of Albion Alloys steel tubing and gluing other details to the inside of the canopy. The one fault in my opinion with the masking set is that it does not provide masks for the interior of the canopies which is essential to protect the clear parts when the interiors of the canopies are painted. With this in mind I purchased two sets for the model. You will only need to do this of course if you are planning to have the canopies open. I had also to allow for the thickness of the plastic between the interiors and exteriors of the canopies. I did this by cutting the masks that were to be used for the interior in half and slightly overlapping them to reduce them in size a little. I do think though that, for the small extra cost of the extra set, it is worth going down this road to get a better result. No point in screwing things up now! Famous last words! Thanks for looking in Martin Edited May 8, 2011 by martin hale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martian Posted May 10, 2011 Author Share Posted May 10, 2011 (edited) I started painting the canopies yesterday and have continued this evening, I had forgotten to paint the insides of the windscreen clear orange so this was attended to first. The forward parts of the opening sections recieved a coat of black prior to airbrushing with Alclad Steel. You see many TSR2 Models with these areas painted black and I even fell into this trap wheni I made my 1/72 scale model but closer inspection reveals that they are actually a dark metalic colour. The white used was Halfords Appliance Wihite. Next up will be to spray the canopy interiors and get the detail painting done. Thanks for looking in Martin Edited May 10, 2011 by martin hale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daz greenwood Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 Nice work Martin. She's gonna look a beauty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamS Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 Martin, are you sure the windshield is tinted orange? All photos I have appear to show it clear? Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianthemodeller Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 OK, stupid question but if the clear bits are painted grey metalic: 1. How did the aircrew see out and 2. What was the point of the clear orange on the inside? Brian (not a TSR2 expert as you can probably tell) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrvr6 Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 OK, stupid question but if the clear bits are painted grey metalic:1. How did the aircrew see out and 2. What was the point of the clear orange on the inside? Brian (not a TSR2 expert as you can probably tell) 1 there are square windows hes just masked them off 2 i think the orange/gold coating was something to do with the nuclear weapon flash suppression it MAY have had unintentional stealth benifits too but thats a guess by me i didnt think the front screen was tinted either? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martian Posted May 11, 2011 Author Share Posted May 11, 2011 Yes the windows are just masked off at the moment, the tinting was actually gold but clear orange gives the right effect in the absence of clear gold paint. I have read both that the windscreen was tinted as well and that it was clear. I have seen the odd picture taken from the inside that indicates that the former might be the case, although this might be discolouration with age. Therefore, with conficting information, I have had to go with a bit of logic, There would be little point having flash suppression on the side windows if the windscreen was left clear. Surely this would result in the incappactation of the pilot? The tinting on the real machine is very subtle and, with the black of the coaming so close behind, it would probably not be so apparant as it is on the side windows when the canopies are open. Whatever the fact of the matter I now have tinted a windsreeen and will have to live with it if I am wrong. Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martian Posted May 11, 2011 Author Share Posted May 11, 2011 This morning I had a shock that nearly sent this project for an unscheduled flight into the bin. Something did not look right with one of the masks. Removing the masking from the canopies to see what was amiss, I discovered that Tamiya clear paints do not like being force dried. The clear paint had crazed! At first I thoght it was the plastic but a quick change of trousers later I realised oit was the paint. Fortunately application of Tamiya thinners was able to remove the crazed paint and I was able to respray the area. Havibng thinned down my only pot of Lifecolour Medium Sea Grey, I was not able to touch up the interior of the canopy frames. Fortunately Saint Robin of Cammett Ltd says he will put a replacement pot of paint in the post today. The canopy will need remasking and a kind lady from Hannants said she would pop a replacement masking set in the post first class today. I know Hannants take a lot of brickbats but not from me. This nis not the first time they have helped get me out of a hole at short notice. Anyway, please learn from my mistake and DO NOT APPLY HEAT TO TAMIYA CLEAR PAINTS. Having rescued the canopies and taken the masking off here is what the effect of the clear oragne is like. Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robvulcan Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 funninly enough its been on my mind to make that 1/72 re release of this from that japanese anime series it does come with the decals for the raf colours too, which i will be doing it in,. i shall watch this one cheers for posting rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefr22 Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 There would be little point having flash suppression on the side windows if the windscreen was left clear. I don't have any info on whether the screen was tinted or not Martin, but I wonder if tinting the canopies would have been of much benefit anyway? I remember reading a report by a pilot flying a Canberra (IIRC) in the Operation Grapple tests. He had to fly into the mushroom cloud to take samples. I can't remember how far out he said they were when the Valiant dropped the bomb, but he stated that despite having anti flash curtains drawn, pulling down his dark tinted visor, closing his eyes & looking down into the cockpit, when it went off he could see the bones in his fingers due to the X rays & the flash still blinded him & his nav who was sitting buried down in the fuselage....!!! Been steadily ploughing through your build since I came across it last week, & some very nice work going on here....!! Keef Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrvr6 Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 I don't have any info on whether the screen was tinted or not Martin, but I wonder if tinting the canopies would have been of much benefit anyway? I remember reading a report by a pilot flying a Canberra (IIRC) in the Operation Grapple tests. He had to fly into the mushroom cloud to take samples. I can't remember how far out he said they were when the Valiant dropped the bomb, but he stated that despite having anti flash curtains drawn, pulling down his dark tinted visor, closing his eyes & looking down into the cockpit, when it went off he could see the bones in his fingers due to the X rays & the flash still blinded him & his nav who was sitting buried down in the fuselage....!!!Been steadily ploughing through your build since I came across it last week, & some very nice work going on here....!! Keef jesus h christ!!!! iv just been looking at pics of xr220 and it LOOKS like the front screen is clear its hard to tell though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martian Posted May 11, 2011 Author Share Posted May 11, 2011 (edited) jesus h christ!!!!iv just been looking at pics of xr220 and it LOOKS like the front screen is clear its hard to tell though This is the nub of the matter. It is very hard to tell from the outside as the coaming is black. I have just this minute placed one of the tinted canopies up agains the model's coaming as an experiment and you would not know whether it was tinted or not from the outside ( a bit of a bonus if I have got it wrong!). The problem is made worse by the fact that it is extremely difficult to tell from published cockpit photos whether one is looking at the mock up, the simulator, the cockpit mock up, XR219, XR220, XR221 or XR222. The only way to be certain would be to sit in the aircraft in question. Even then we have to bear in mind that the cockpit was in a state of flux during the programme so it is possible that both may be correct at different periods. I do have a spare windscreen part I could use but the more I think about it the more I feel I still have only a 50/50 chance of being right. I suspect that the gold tinted transparancies were probably developed as a result of experience gained in the light of the tests with the Valiants but I have no idea how this might have worked. Perhaps someone with a bit more scientific knowledge than myself could enlighten us? Still, debates such as this are all part of what makes this such an absorbing hobby n'est pas? Martin von Totally Confused Edited May 11, 2011 by martin hale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianthemodeller Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 the windows are just masked off at the moment Ahhh, the penny drops with rather a load splash. you know, I feel a right prat now, sort of obvious if I had thought about it. Perhaps Britmodeller and half a bottle of red wine is not a good combination... Sorry guys. Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrvr6 Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 (edited) Ahhh, the penny drops with rather a load splash. you know, I feel a right prat now, sort of obvious if I had thought about it. Perhaps Britmodeller and half a bottle of red wine is not a good combination... Sorry guys. Brian 1st time as a modeller that i knew something somebody else didnt lol having said that iv made 10 planes in total and 5 of them have been tsr2s lol (iv started another now and im looking to buy at least another 4 at some point) Edited May 11, 2011 by mrvr6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martian Posted May 11, 2011 Author Share Posted May 11, 2011 1st time as a modeller that i knew something somebody else didnt lolhaving said that iv made 10 planes in total and 5 of them have been tsr2s lol (iv started another now and im looking to buy at least another 4 at some point) Where's the WIP then? Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrvr6 Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 Where's the WIP then? Martin no pics yet lol il do the thread now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devilfish Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 According to the book, TSR2, Tomorrows of a lost Eagle, the coating was purely for stealth purposes. Yes, I know you'll all say the TSR2 is hardly stealthy, but bear in mind that some of the biggest reflections come from the intakes and the cockpit.... Even if it is just for stealth, it seems strange not to coat the windshield, as head on, this will give a huge signature... Maybe for testing purposes the prototypes weren't tinted or, as you say Martin, the tint isn't as apparent on the them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrvr6 Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 According to the book, TSR2, Tomorrows of a lost Eagle, the coating was purely for stealth purposes. Yes, I know you'll all say the TSR2 is hardly stealthy, but bear in mind that some of the biggest reflections come from the intakes and the cockpit.... Even if it is just for stealth, it seems strange not to coat the windshield, as head on, this will give a huge signature... Maybe for testing purposes the prototypes weren't tinted or, as you say Martin, the tint isn't as apparent on the them. so its nothing to do with flash suppression then? i agree it does seem odd not to do the front screen from head on i thought tsr2 wouldve been pretty hard to spot its got a tiny frontal area Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devilfish Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 so its nothing to do with flash suppression then?i agree it does seem odd not to do the front screen from head on i thought tsr2 wouldve been pretty hard to spot its got a tiny frontal area Well again, from what I've read in the book, the TSR2s role was tactical (hence the name). The nuclear role is strategic...... I get the feeling that the nuclear deterent role was one that was tagged on after the initial design. Of course, there are far more knowledgeable people on here than me about the TSR, so I could be wrong, but that's my understanding of it... Oh, and I've been looking at pics on the net, and my general concensus is that it is tinted, but maybe not as much as the sides.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrvr6 Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Fair enough although nukes been be tactical ie low yield and it does make sense to tint all the Windows Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martian Posted May 12, 2011 Author Share Posted May 12, 2011 Well, both Hannants, Cammett and even Royal Mail for once came up trumps today so this evening I will be getting the canopies finished off. The windscreen will have to wait as it needs blending into the fuselage as it is a little too wide. Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrvr6 Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 How do you get around the shape difference the canopy where org meets the nose is square but the nose is round Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now