"Navy surrenders one new aircraft carrier"

[Oliver]

I can't see us dropping the F-35 programme, given the amount we have invested in it, it would be shear folly to do so. I can, however, see us buying the F-35C instead of the F-35B for several reasons; its cheaper and more capable (internal gun etc), stops us having to leave the programme altogether and thus costing more money etc for having to break contract and finally commonality with USN which we would most likely use to train our pilots, spares, larger production run therefore cheaper and the folks we tend to fight with not against alot.

Can't see us buying Rafale at all, the unit price is still too close the Typhoon's for the same capabilities. And perhaps quite importantly doesn't come with an AESA radar as yet (also a major drawback of our Typhoon). Psst its French!

F/A-18E/F's would be foolish, yes its proven, yes it capable, but going with this would mean a huge loss in potential future capability. If we loan them then thats even stupider as thats more costs on top of what we have put into JSF and then left (given the stupidity, we might actually do this).

Navalising Typhoon is not really a solution, yes you'd solve alot of commonality issues, spares etc, but the unit cost is already very high, add to that the cost of navalisation, AESA integration and you have a rather expensive maybe even bordering on F-35C priced aircraft. Plus you really don't want all your aircraft to be the same in case some smart sod figures out how to easily deal with that type of aircraft.

If our carriers are meant to be a means of force projection then VTOL/STOVL was never and is still never the way to go and it is foolish to think otherwise. Harrier was a great aircraft but it is nearing its end, and there is only so much you can do with VTOL/STOVL in todays climate, gone are the days of the cold war where our airfields were under threat of attack, in an insurgency war you hardly want your aircraft on an unprepared landing spot either, and if you think otherwise do you really think our military or government is going to let their latest bit of multi million pound kit do that? VTOL/STOVL aircraft are generally shorter ranged and less capable than their conventional counterparts.

I am glad that our carriers, currently, aren't up for the chop. Because if we equip them properly then they will serve us well for decades. They provide us with floating airfields that means we don't have to rely on getting approval for using foreign airbases and foreign airspace, this will only work if we buy aircraft with suitable range, hence STOVL/VTOL wouldn't work since we don't have the tanker assets in the first place.

[Orange Poodle]

Unlikely that the hulls will be cancelled whilst Labour in power - just think about in who's Parliamentary constituency they are being built.

As for the aircraft, well that may be something else.......

OP

[gengriz]

just think about in who's Parliamentary constituency they are being built.

There is some validity in your argument, but it is really not that simple:

Rosyth Naval Base (Babcocks - modules & final assembly) - William Rennie MP - Liberal Democrat

Portsmouth (BAe modules & Design Office) - Mike Hancock MP - Liberal Democrat

Of course, Mr Brown's party does have an interest in the other main yard building components (Govan/Scotstoun), but the sitting MP is in fact a very strong critic of his:

Govan & Scotstoun (BAe - super modules) - Mohammed Sarwar MP - Labour

Messers Brown & Darling's (why am I thinking BlackAdder?) own constituencies (Kirkcaldy & Edinburgh SW) are both some distance from the nearest CVF building sites and very few (if any) of their constituents are employed on CVF/QEC work.

As for the aircraft - well I believe that Alan Johnston MP (Labour, and the heir apparent) is the sitting MP for Hull, so maybe you do have a point.

Edited October 28, 2009 by gengriz

[Antoine]

Be aware that sometimes the CdG lost his screw (True!), but anyway, we can still makes you have an happy trip!

Welcome to the Royale!

[Max Headroom]

There is some validity in your argument, but it is really not that simple:

Rosyth Naval Base (Babcocks - modules & final assembly) - William Rennie MP - Liberal Democrat

Portsmouth (BAe modules & Design Office) - Mike Hancock MP - Liberal Democrat

Of course, Mr Brown's party does have an interest in the other main yard building components (Govan/Scotstoun), but the sitting MP is in fact a very strong critic of his:

Govan & Scotstoun (BAe - super modules) - Mohammed Sarwar MP - Labour

Messers Brown & Darling's (why am I thinking BlackAdder?) own constituencies (Kirkcaldy & Edinburgh SW) are both some distance from the nearest CVF building sites and very few (if any) of their constituents are employed on CVF/QEC work.

As for the aircraft - well I believe that Alan Johnston MP (Labour, and the heir apparent) is the sitting MP for Hull, so maybe you do have a point.

Add to that list Cammel Laird in Birkenhead (Frank Field - Labour) which is to build part of the flight deck (thinx - they managed to build two complete Ark Royals.................)

MH