FZ6 Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 (edited) I fancy building my new Airfix 1:72 Canberra PR.9 on its take off run. I was wondering if the flaps would need to be up or down for this? Thanks in advance. Mark Edited September 19, 2009 by FZ6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fmk.6john Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 (edited) Mark, Argle barble floop floop............................... Regards, JB (sits with tin hat on waiting for the Canberra Queen to tell me off!) Edited becouse of foot in mouth syndrome. Edited September 19, 2009 by Fmk.6john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Tango Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 JB (sits with tin hat on waiting for the Canberra Queen to tell me off!) I should dig a foxhole whilst you're waiting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fmk.6john Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 Oh bugger! JB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHREAK Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 Flaps can only go downwards and will be set downwards for take off to give it some much needed extra lift at slower speeds. The tailplanes will need to be deflected upwards a bit depending at which point on it's take off run you want to show your Canberra. The ailerons on the wings will be at neutral; as these are used for banking, ie one up, one down. I'm sure a proper pilot will elaborate for you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penfold Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 Nice pic 2/3 rds down the page shows you how much deflection to put on your model; about 45 degrees by the look of things. canberra pics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Aero Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 (edited) Nice pic 2/3 rds down the page shows you how much deflection to put on your model; about 45 degrees by the look of things.canberra pics That Canberra is landing! Despite what the caption says. The Pilots notes do not mention flaps on takeoff and I don't have the Flight reference cards. John Edited September 19, 2009 by John Aero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canberra kid Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 No flaps needed for take of, just landing, all being well John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tango India Mike Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 There are indeed occasions when a small degree of flap can assist with getting a heavily loaded aircraft off the ground. All the wartime bombers routinely took off with around thirty degrees of flap, and even single-engined types like the Typhoon would require something similar to lift a load of bombs or rockets. I don't know about the Canberra, but I should think circumstances would similarly dictate the use of flaps or not during take-off. A former Canberra pilot would be able to tell you for sure...any of those around here? Cheers, Tim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian @ KitsforCash Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 There are indeed occasions when a small degree of flap can assist with getting a heavily loaded aircraft off the ground. All the wartime bombers routinely took off with around thirty degrees of flap, and even single-engined types like the Typhoon would require something similar to lift a load of bombs or rockets. I don't know about the Canberra, but I should think circumstances would similarly dictate the use of flaps or not during take-off. A former Canberra pilot would be able to tell you for sure...any of those around here?Cheers, Tim. canberra flaps are either up or down, and tend to make bloody good airbrakes.....only seen themused on landing ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin S-K Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 (edited) Dear All, Flaps are routinely used for take off in most aircraft, not just to give extra lift, but more importantly to shorten the take off run. No idea what the figure would be for a Canberra, but would suggest between 10-20 degrees, if indeed Canberra's used take off flap? Much more than that gives more drag, as well as lift, thereby slowing down acceleration, hence lengthening the take off run. Landing. http://www.airliners.net/photo/UK---Air/En...2254488bc57b604 Take off, run, seemingly no take off flap for the Canberra.... http://www.airliners.net/photo/UK---Air/En...2254488bc57b604 http://www.airliners.net/photo/Germany---A...2254488bc57b604 Hope this helps. Colin Edited September 19, 2009 by Colin S-K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammy da fish Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 Despite some of the above posts saying about other aircraft needing flaps down for take off. The Canberra could and may be different, I do hope someone comes forward with some flight reference cards. If not by next week I will ask an ex canberra pilot at work next week. As for the tailplane being used for take off, it is positionable for longitudal trim via an electric motor attached to the forward edge of the tailplane, the elevators would be used to rotate the aircraft for take off not the tailplane! SF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FZ6 Posted September 19, 2009 Author Share Posted September 19, 2009 Thanks guys. That's really helped looks like I'll be trying to fix the flaps in the raised position. The pics below give an idea of what I have in mind. It should look good in a nice high speed silver scheme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canberra kid Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 That should look nice, please post a photo when she's finished. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bexwh773 Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 Regards,JB (sits with tin hat on waiting for the Canberra Queen to tell me off!) Edited becouse of foot in mouth syndrome. JB Youre gonna need more than a Tin Hat Ol' Boy Gang, I was out all day yesterday, however, I dont have FRC's for the PR9 but I do have them for a PR7........ Card 4, AP101B-0407-14A: "After strapping in Checks" FLAPS .............. SELECTED UP CARD 6: "After Start Checks" FLAPS................ TESTED and UP I am going away later today, however I am more than happy to scan those cards on my return home next week. HTH Bexy P.S: When it comes to Canberras nothing is ever simple or logical Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonymousFY21 Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 P.S: When it comes to Canberras nothing is ever simple or logical Can't say I've noticed that ...... Useful info Bex. As promised there are some pics of the stuff you were interested in on the Canberra SIG. rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin S-K Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 (edited) Dear All, The question about flaps up or down seems to have been answered.......... Even so, have a look at this, you might enjoy it. I did, not only for the Canberra.... Brought a tear to my eye..... Colin Edited September 24, 2009 by Colin S-K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penfold Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Dear All,The question about flaps up or down seems to have been answered.......... Even so, have a look at this, you might enjoy it. I did, not only for the Canberra.... Brought a tear to my eye..... Colin I stand corrected over the matter...it seems the old girl didn't need flaps for take off.. But I did smile when I saw the vid - because at 4.33/4.34 during the supposed take-off sequence, just after take off IIRC, is a brief shot of the plane with her flaps down.......presumably edited in from her landing earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David H Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 While the question has been answered i just thought i'd throw my thoughts in as to "why". The Canberra has split flaps. These typically tend to be good for drag on approach and landing, but sort of indifferent in the lift department for takeoff. The Canberra had no shortage of wing area, and the up setting for takeoff has more to do with minimizing unwanted drag on takeoff and climbout. I suspect flaps didn't do much for shortening the takeoff roll, but if you lose an engine, climb capability is dictated by thrust in excess of that required for level flight, and you need to reduce drag to a minimum. In the event of an engine failure, ye do NOT want a lot of drag hanging out there, like....well, flaps. Hopefully a Canberra driver can chime in here and see if he agrees with me. Others no doubt know more. david Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bexwh773 Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 David, I think you have hit the nail on the head, as an engine failure on a Canberra on either landing or take off has proven mostly fatal on many occasions so your drag reduction theory makes sense to me. Bexy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David H Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 Hi Bex, A lot of people have taken to the notion that all jet aircraft take off with the flaps partially down. Its not quite as simple as that. Its largely dictated by the wing design, but also considerations such as runway length and obstacle clearance, plus field elevation must be taken into account. For a short runway, using flaps gets you off in a shorter distance and reduces the balanced field length, but you take a penalty on rate of climb, although thats not always an issue. In the Falcon 50s and 900s i fly (on a good day), we will use a slats-only setting for takeoff on occasion if departing on a hot day (with a long runway) or from a high field elevation airport (like Aspen Colorado), because in those situations thrust output is less and drag reduction is critical in the event of an engine failure; you just won't generate the required climb gradients with an engine failure if the configuration is wrong. As long as we have enough runway, and are not limited by max available brake energy (function of takeoff weight), yoo can doo eet! David,I think you have hit the nail on the head, as an engine failure on a Canberra on either landing or take off has proven mostly fatal on many occasions so your drag reduction theory makes sense to me. Bexy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Work In Progress Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 Hi Bex,A lot of people have taken to the notion that all jet aircraft take off with the flaps partially down. Its not quite as simple as that. Very true. Another popular type that frequently does not use flap on take-off, despite being fairly highly loaded, is the Fokker 70 / Fokker 100 (the one that looks like a DC-9). I take those in and out of Schipol on KLM quite often and was very surprised - and not a little concerned, as a pilot - the first time I flew on one when the wing remained resolutely configured in the cruise configuration throughout the takeoff roll. So I asked the pilot about it. It's routine on that type, and it goes up very nicely with or without them. What you gain with a shorter ground roll, apparently you lose on a poorer climb gradient in the initiaol climb due to the extra drag of the flaps, so wherever they have sufficient field length they depart with the wing clean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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