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F-4J (UK) Phantom


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On 18/2/2017 at 0:55 PM, Andre B said:

Whats the reason that there where so many different painted Phantoms in UK? Liberal regulations or regulations that no one respected?

I am glad that it is so because it is an goldmine for an modellbuilder with so many different painted aircrafts. But one wonder whats the history was behind so many different painted aircrafts (compared to the Luftwaffe Phantom's during the same period or even the US Navy, Marine and Air Force).

 

Cheers / André

 

Not sure that the Luftwaffe Phantoms can be considered as lacking in unusual paint schemes... apart from the various official schemes, a wide number of experimental schemes were tested on both the F-4Fs and the RF-4Es over time. Not to mention the many anniversary schemes.

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1 hour ago, Giorgio N said:

 

Not sure that the Luftwaffe Phantoms can be considered as lacking in unusual paint schemes... apart from the various official schemes, a wide number of experimental schemes were tested on both the F-4Fs and the RF-4Es over time. Not to mention the many anniversary schemes.

 

Well..,

Luftwaffe was rader hard on unusual paint schemes during the norm 72 period and before. It was first in the 80's and after they where starting doing anniverary schemes. The same thing goes for the Swedish Air Force that always had been rather hard conserning markings that wasn't with the regulations. They usually didn't live for long when the administry found out...

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49 minutes ago, Giorgio N said:

 

Not sure that the Luftwaffe Phantoms can be considered as lacking in unusual paint schemes... apart from the various official schemes, a wide number of experimental schemes were tested on both the F-4Fs and the RF-4Es over time. Not to mention the many anniversary schemes.

 

The same for USAF (Light Gull Gray / White, ADC Gray, SEA / wraparound SEA / Hil Gray 1/2) and USN (Light Gull Gray / White, Light Gull Gray / White, allover Light Gull Gray, Ferris, TPS) ones.

 

Let alone the various one offs like the Black & White Bunny, the orange QF-4B's, etc. etc.

 

Cheers,

 

Andre

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9 hours ago, Giorgio N said:

 

56 Squadron had for a while one radome painted in dark red to be mounted on whatever aircraft was taking part in an airshow at some point in the '80s. Wonder if the one in your picture is that radome as the aircraft is from 56

 

Never heard of a red radome doing the rounds, but sounds interesting. Despite some comments on the below thread, the pictures suggest unpainted natural fibreglass (or whatever the official material is) which would also explain the strong brown tint to grey painted radomes. Black radomes also took on a brown tint when faded.

 

http://www.fightercontrol.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=45015

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Some Meteor night fighters also had red/bronze/brown radomes, so it's quite possible that this appearance is due to the radomes being new and unpainted or old, tired and abraded.  The colour photos of the Meteors are, obviously, not recent so the colours may have changed over the years but the colours of the national and squadron markings are still quite good.  As the colour of the radomes appears quite uniform I'd suggest new, or at least refurbished, and unpainted.

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The radome on the Phantom is indeed in an earth brown fibreglass, but pictures where this colour is visible don't show the kind of smooth and gloss finish seen in pictures of "red nosed" British Phantoms. If these radomes weren't painted red or brown, at least they had received a good gloss coat.

I have unearthed a good close-up of the radome carried by XV426 "P" of 56 Sqn. during the 1987 Aviano airshow and this is in a gloss reddish brown (notes say similar to 10115). In the picture the radome really looks painted, not left in natural fibreglass. The finish is similar to the ones seen on the F-4J in the link above, including the very visible white stencilling. What I remember was that the radome was used for the "showbirds", but this was not official information, the truth may well be different. In any case the finish was not the result of wear on the radome but was deliberate

Edited by Giorgio N
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15 hours ago, iainpeden said:

Andre - you missed the lizard scheme - (European 1)

 

You're right!

 

In my defence, it's my least favorite USAF scheme.  ;-)

 

Cheers,

 

Andre

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi everyone, guess I am right here! Can I build the 48th scale Zoukei Mura / SWS F-4J as a UK F.3? What would I need to change? Apart from yecals of course ;)

Thanks!

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2 hours ago, exdraken said:

Can I build the 48th scale Zoukei Mura / SWS F-4J as a UK F.3?

 

I dont have the 'ZM kit, but modellingwise there isn't much difference between the F-4J and F-4J(UK) apart from 1) paint and markings and 2) the ex-Chieftain tank sight 'poor men's TISEO' fitted between the cockpits on the left later on. 

 

HTH,

 

Andre

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I don't have the ZM kit either, but I don't think it includes the strengthening strap on the underside of the wing... This is the same as found on the F-4S and on Spey Phantoms in their final years

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On 3/11/2017 at 7:32 AM, exdraken said:

Hi everyone, guess I am right here! Can I build the 48th scale Zoukei Mura / SWS F-4J as a UK F.3? What would I need to change? Apart from yecals of course ;)

Thanks!

 

After googling a few pictures of the kit, I noticed a lack of RHAWS fairings on the intakes....., so make sure the kit has them as well. 

 

,,,,,, and dont call it the UK F.3.....! Blasphemy I tell you..., blasphemy.....! :lol:

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Indeed it was ZE350. She also had the "old" style, more pointed antenna fairing on the fin trailing edge and no reinforcement plates on fin sides.

 

But did ZE350 have the wing reinforcement straps? I have seen only one photo and that is not good enough to be sure...

 

Best Regards,

Antti

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I have just checked one of our Newly imported Zoukei Mura 1/48 F4J models and I can confirm that it comes with optional parts for the RHAWS.(side looking horns)

 

These can be found on Sprue H Parts 5 and 6

 

There are also two optional fin tops as well as slatted and un slatted tail planes.

 

i don think this version of the RAF Phantom have wing reinforcement straps, so other than the Periscope you can do a RAF F4J(UK)

 

Hope this helps

Edited by TIGER HOBBIESLIMITED
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On 3/17/2017 at 10:18 AM, TIGER HOBBIESLIMITED said:

 

i don think this version of the RAF Phantom have wing reinforcement straps, so other than the Periscope you can do a RAF F4J(UK)

 

There are plenty of pictures clearly showing the reinforcement straps on the F-4J(UK).  I can not say with certainty 'all' had them, but at least 'some' had them...

 

I can't recall the source, but I remember reading an article stating the F-4J(UK) were actually F-4J's brought close to F-4S standard except for the slats.  Can anybody confirm or deny this?

 

Best regards,

 

G

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 3/19/2017 at 10:13 AM, guillaume320 said:

I can't recall the source, but I remember reading an article stating the F-4J(UK) were actually F-4J's brought close to F-4S standard except for the slats.  Can anybody confirm or deny this?

 

Pretty much. The purchased J`s went through NARF at North Island and brought up to an S type standard, minus the wing slats as mentioned and give or take a few systems specifically added for RAF use. The strengthening straps to the wings are noted as added `locally` once back in the UK so it would seem these were not added in the US.

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  • 1 month later...

You have got to go back to when we bought these out of the bone yard in 1982.

The aircraft were covered in a lime green primer and then covered in the nearest US FS Colour to RAF Barley Grey.

The Grey was may be not sprayed on as thick as it could have been, hence grey and green mix looks like turquoise in some light as the green primer shines through, just like the picture in this thread.

 

So these were in service from 1984 to 1992 and  they would go through Minor and Major RAF Servicing, during a Major it is likely they would have been re-spreyed normal Barley Grey, but a few were never re-spreyed and remining in their original  US Green primer and Grey.

 

I am just doing a Hobby Master Diecast F4J UK and its a mine field.

 

So if you are doing a large scale model 1/48 or 1/32 then you need to paint it as per the real aircraft Green primer covered in FS grey on the thin side and in certain light it will look turquoise as it should be.

 

Hope this helps 

Edited by TIGER HOBBIESLIMITED
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43 minutes ago, TIGER HOBBIESLIMITED said:

So if you are doing a large scale model 1/48 or 1/32 then you need to paint it as per the real aircraft Green primer covered in FS grey on the thin side and in certain light it will look turquoise as it should be.

 

I have vague plans to finish mine in eiher AKAN or MiG Jiminez MiG-29 Fulcrum green / grey. This looks pretty close in scale to what I remember seeing.

 

Cheers,

 

Andre

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Somewhere I have a note of those that were repainted in UK colours

 

I did watch one change colour at an airshow once as the ambient light went from bright sunshine (Blue-grey) to dark cloud (Light green, close to Sky)

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 2017-6-9 at 9:14 AM, TIGER HOBBIESLIMITED said:

So these were in service from 1984 to 1992...

The F-4J(UK) was in service until January 1991, from then on, 74 Sqn flew the FGR.2 until RAF Phantom service was brought to a premature end in October 1992...

 

-Dazza 

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From what I understand (was told whilst 74 was at Honington in '88) the weird colours had nothing to do with primer. The painting was contracted out in the States and they painted the first 4 or 5 in the closest colours they could find as they didn't have access to std paints. Being told the colours were wrong, they had another go with a different, but also incorrect paint. After another jab in the ribs the third batch was much closer. Or so the story goes.

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F-4J(UK) Blue-Turquoise

 For more read the Double Ugly books but the paint was not US......  The RAF 15 F-4J(UK) were intended to be painted as close as possible to the three-grey air defence scheme.  The F-4J(UK) were painted at NARF North Island in a glossy three-grey finish - trying to match RAF colours.  The Barley Grey substitute was close to Flint Gray FS.595 36314 and the Medium Sea Grey substitute - inner upper wings - close to Neutral Grey FS.595 36270, while the lower surfaces Light Aircraft Grey substitute was close to Light Gull Grey FS.595 36440.  Nine aircraft had an odd appearance, with the upper colours having the blue-turquoise tint.  The primer paint specification was misunderstood by the Mexican manufacturers.  One oddity was ZE355/F904, with a correct coloured radome, splitter intake, forward canopy framing and a small portion of fuselage near the radome.  The remainder of the upper fuselage colour having the blue-turquoise appearance.  - read the Double Ugly Vol.2 for more ...

Patrick Martin

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Patrick, I didn't say the paint was US, I said the painting was contracted out by the US and the aircraft were painted in the contractors nearest equivalent. I can only say what I was told in 1988 by guys on the Sqn, which for me as a spotty 16 year old Space Cadet being shown around Sierra with the horrible Tiger Meet markings not properly cleaned off was a genuine treat, as the Toom has always been my first love. That said, with std three year rotation maybe the story had already developed as original members had already moved on. And I can only endorse your books as a Phantom Lover, your books (signed of course) are prized and much thumbed in my collection. I know how much work goes into these but I want more, please!!

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It was a combination of the primer and thin upper coats (FS36314 has a slightly bluer tone than Barley/Camouflage grey) . They actually changed apparent colour in differing light conditions depending on w ether they were in direct or reflected or diffuse sunlight. Close up in certain light conditions it looked like 36314. In others, it was close to Sky. (a friend help fs595 chips against one)

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