Seahawk Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 Just picked up this clip over on missing-lynx.com. The poster was drawing attention to the unusual exhaust cowl on one of the Cromwells but aircraft modellers might be interested in the pictures of Churchill getting into and taking off in Harry Broadhurst's Storch, at roughly the 5 minute point. Just a few seconds' worth, mind. http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=23434 Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyL Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 This Storch I think... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alvin5182 Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 Gents: These are the best two photos I have found on the net over the years. Alvin5182 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted August 15, 2009 Author Share Posted August 15, 2009 Gents:These are the best two photos I have found on the net over the years. Alvin5182 Brilliant pics: thanks for sharing. Any idea about the identity of the Storch in the film clip? Broadhurst was using that in Normandy so it can't be the aircraft that went on to become VX154 because that wasn't captured until the German surrender. Can't see owt in "War Prizes" about it. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Fleming Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 IIRC Broadhurst used at least two Storchs during the NE Europe campaign - one came from North Africa originally. Not unusual - there were at least 10 different Storchs in British markings excluding those captured post war. There is a film in the Pathe archive showing one in use in NOrth Africa, along with Black 6, a Ju87 and the Hs126 being repainted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellsprop Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 It's correct that he had two, the first was written off in Evere, Brussels, December 1944; After visiting one of the airfields in Brussels, Broadhurst took off and had an engine failure at a few hundred feet, he tried to land on the roof of a hangar, but the damage to the hangar was such that it couldn't support the Storch before it fell into a big tangled wreck (this was the one that was originally captured in Africa). It was around the time of the German surrender (almost certainly before) that he picked up a second Storch, he flew into Celle to meet JEJ and discuss the subsequent deployment of 125 wing to Kastrup just the day after the German surrender. Ben 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveCromie Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 Oh that is nice! I now have an excuse to build a Storch an aircraft I have always had a soft spot for but never got round to. Would this aircraft be wearing the standard capured A/C schem of DG/DE/Trainer Yellow? I ask because it looks like you can see the remains of the German unit markings (HE?) under the D-Day Stripes and I would have expected this to have been obliterated when the captured aircraft scheme was applied?Any suggestions gratefully received! Cheers DC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellsprop Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 Oh that is nice! I now have an excuse to build a Storch an aircraft I have always had a soft spot for but never got round to. Would this aircraft be wearing the standard capured A/C schem of DG/DE/Trainer Yellow? I ask because it looks like you can see the remains of the German unit markings (HE?) under the D-Day Stripes and I would have expected this to have been obliterated when the captured aircraft scheme was applied?Any suggestions gratefully received! Cheers DC I agree! I think the "HE" you mentioned is actually "HB", for Harry Broadhurst. Wing Co's and above were allowed to have both their initials and their pennant painted on their personal aircraft. I don't know if the second aircraft wore the same markings, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was very similar (maybe minus D-Day stripes). Ben 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Foster60 Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 Does anyone know, when and if, the aircraft was used without the D day stripes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warris Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 A couple of years ago I used Tristar's 1/35 kit to make this Al 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellsprop Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 Does anyone know, when and if, the aircraft was used without the D day stripes? Yes, it was certainly used in Italy without stripes. It was captured in N Africa in '43 (I think), obviously it wouldn't have gained stripes until July 5th '44. Here it is in Italy, '43. (sourced from wiki) Here is another Storch (again from wiki) that is referenced on this forum as Broadhurst's. The link says "circa 1944" so, in my opinion, this isn't Broadhurst's as his certainly has stripes in mid 44. It is possible that the Storch he picked up shortly before the end of the war didn't wear stripes as, by December '44, the use of D-Day stripes was phased out. But, it is plausible, that he had stripes put on it even towards the end of the war to aid identification of the unfamiliar airframe. Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Foster60 Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 Hi Ben, thanks for the info and photo's. I just think the stripes overwhelmed the aircraft and they look better without. Cheers Nigel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 Storch related, I have a piece of fabric and some paint on(possibly original Luftwaffe??) taken from VP546. It was a souvenir given to me by an airman while I was on ATC camp at Coltishall in 1968. The airframe was dismantled and stored in the corner of a hangar alongside Spit V AB910 and Hurricane but not sure which one at the time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhaselden Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 (edited) Yes, it was certainly used in Italy without stripes. It was captured in N Africa in '43 (I think), obviously it wouldn't have gained stripes until July 5th '44. Here it is in Italy, '43. (sourced from wiki) Here is another Storch (again from wiki) that is referenced on this forum as Broadhurst's. The link says "circa 1944" so, in my opinion, this isn't Broadhurst's as his certainly has stripes in mid 44. It is possible that the Storch he picked up shortly before the end of the war didn't wear stripes as, by December '44, the use of D-Day stripes was phased out. But, it is plausible, that he had stripes put on it even towards the end of the war to aid identification of the unfamiliar airframe. Ben The camo pattern on the top and bottom images looks very similar, even down to the little wavy bits as the upper surface demarkation lines approach the bottom of the fuselage. Given that there wasn't a standard camo pattern for Storches in RAF service, I'm guessing it's the same airframe. Dumb question - on the lower image, what's the aircraft behind the Storch? Looks like it has an unfeasibly long rear fuselage. Edited March 16, 2015 by mhaselden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Thomas Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 (edited) Vultee-Stinson Vigilant Edited March 16, 2015 by Chris Thomas 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhaselden Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 Thanks Chris. I suspected it was an American something-or-other. Tail definitely looks too long for the rest of the aircraft, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Work In Progress Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 It's Stinson L-1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stinson_L-1_Vigilant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denford Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 Without wishing to go too much 'off thread', which 1/72 Storch do readers consider the best? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyot Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 The camo pattern on the top and bottom images looks very similar, even down to the little wavy bits as the upper surface demarkation lines approach the bottom of the fuselage. Given that there wasn't a standard camo pattern for Storches in RAF service, I'm guessing it's the same airframe. Dumb question - on the lower image, what's the aircraft behind the Storch? Looks like it has an unfeasibly long rear fuselage. As has already been said, it is a Stinson Vigilant. That and the Storch belong to the Desert Air Force Comms Sqn based in Italy during 1933-45, Here is a thread that I did for a model of the same aircraft; http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234966374-stinson-l-1-vigilant-desert-air-force-comms-sqn-1944-italy/?hl=stinson And here is one of the pics of the model; Cheers Tony 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellsprop Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 The camo pattern on the top and bottom images looks very similar, even down to the little wavy bits as the upper surface demarkation lines approach the bottom of the fuselage. Given that there wasn't a standard camo pattern for Storches in RAF service, I'm guessing it's the same airframe. Good point, I've just realised that this image could have been taken on a beach in Italy before D-Day! Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 Or indeed after D-Day - the similarity of camouflage pattern need not imply it is the same aircraft. Any captured Storch is likely to have been repainted to the same standard pattern as any other British single-engine type e.g. Auster or Vigilant. It might be worth comparing the two types. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellsprop Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 (edited) The camo pattern on the top and bottom images looks very similar, even down to the little wavy bits as the upper surface demarkation lines approach the bottom of the fuselage. Given that there wasn't a standard camo pattern for Storches in RAF service, I'm guessing it's the same airframe. Dumb question - on the lower image, what's the aircraft behind the Storch? Looks like it has an unfeasibly long rear fuselage. Or indeed after D-Day - the similarity of camouflage pattern need not imply it is the same aircraft. Any captured Storch is likely to have been repainted to the same standard pattern as any other British single-engine type e.g. Auster or Vigilant. It might be worth comparing the two types. As mentioned in the first reply, there was no standard for a Storch. The camo pattern is not similar to an Auster's either. This isn't a surprise as RAF types would have been painted before getting the serials and stencils then leaving the factory. The Storch's in (un-orthodox) RAF service would have been painted either at an MU or on a squadron, it seems unlikely to me that whoever painted a captured Storch at the end of the war would have made sure it was painted the same as a Storch captured in '43. Ben Edited March 16, 2015 by wellsprop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 There's no standard pattern for any individual type: there is a standard pattern for single-engined aircraft. Each MU would have copies of these patterns. The squadrons would only need to look at their own aircraft (OK, they didn't always bother). Often captured types were repainted in the standard patterns. Remember to consider mirror images and colour exchanges before being too definite - and don't rely upon modern warbirds. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhaselden Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 Graham, I wasn't looking at the general pattern but the specific details within it. The image with Broady about to clamber into the cockpit shows an interesting wiggle at the bottom end of the dark green demarcation that sweeps through the fuselage roundel. A similar feature is shown on the aircraft on the beach. The shape of the demarcation line further forward, beneath the rear cockpit glazing, also looks the same in both images. I think it highly unlikely that two captured Storches would have such similar camo as to replicate the minor wiggles in the demarcation lines even if they wore the same broad pattern as other types fulfilling similar roles. Cheers,Mark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveCromie Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 Ben thanks for the profile and the explanation - can't believe I didn't put two and two together about the letters and the Wg Cmdr's initials This is why I frequent this forum, SOOOOO much knowledge out there and just as much generosity when it comes to sharing it. Cheers all DC 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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