Kinetic F16DG/DJ

[Graham T]

Just picked one up from Hannants Colindale (only went in for a roll of Tamiya tape!). I am seriously impressed looking at it in the box; it seems to stack up very well against the Tamiya kit (especially as Tamiya don't do a twin tub F16 yet!) & at £25.99 it's an order of magnitude less expensive. The weapons selection is out of this world with an example of just about anything you could ever want to hang under an F16 & what doesn't get used on this will make it over to an F15E.

[avro683]

Any chance of some sprue shots Graham, pretty please?

Tony

[entlim]

Steve(f4sooty )completed the Sufa version last week- it stands up well against the Hase version....

[Graham T]

Any chance of some sprue shots Graham, pretty please?

Tony

Well I'm not very good at sprue shots but:

The upper fuselage twin tub insert:

Upper & lower fuelage parts with integral wings:

One of two identical armament/stores sprues:

One of FOUR identical armament stores sprues:

[avro683]

Brilliant Graham, many thanks. I want one of these to do in Norwegian markings, can't wait now!

Enjoy the build.

Tony

[T-Tango]

Certainly got plenty of armament for it, enjoy

Edited August 6, 2009 by T-Tango

[Mike V]

Just picked one up from Hannants Colindale (only went in for a roll of Tamiya tape!). I am seriously impressed looking at it in the box; it seems to stack up very well against the Tamiya kit (especially as Tamiya don't do a twin tub F16 yet!) & at £25.99 it's an order of magnitude less expensive. The weapons selection is out of this world with an example of just about anything you could ever want to hang under an F16 & what doesn't get used on this will make it over to an F15E.

Actually, it doesn't stack up well to the Tamiya kit in regards to shape accuracy, surface detailing, tooling quality, and fit. Yes, Kinetic has puppy-milled out quite a few F-16 variants, but at the expense of accuracy and quality. I found the fit to be pretty bad in many areas (intakes, forward fuselage, and NLG wheel/exterior) and the nose profile is simply horrible! The exaggerated spine, way off angle of the ventral fins and stabs can be accepted and/or corrected, but the nose profile just ruins it for many modelers.

Kinetic did make an attempt at correcting the nose in some later issue kits, but it was a half-bottom attempt and created some other profile errors in the process.

They did produce a D variant, but again botched the first one, then didn't quite fix all the mistakes in the second/production run. While the production D model fuselage shape is ok (still not as accurate as Hasegawa), just about every panel line and access door detail is wrong.

Even with a coat of primer, the surface detail still looks like that of a diecast model. They are just too heavy and wide; which is real evident on compound surfaces.

The weapons would be nice if it weren’t for the heavy scribing again. While I can live with some of it on the larger ordinance, I ended up tossing the missiles. They were just nowhere near scale with those heavy panel lines that looked more like relief cuts!

I like Kinetic's approach, but their execution was seriously flawed. They should have had better technical consultants and not solicited corrections updates from a simple modeling forum. The fuselages parts went through 3 tooling changes, and they are still wrong;

The Kinetic kits can still be built up nice, but overall it just doesn’t stack up to the Tamiya kit quality and falls way short in overall shape accuracy

There’re some hope for the kit as far as corrections and aftermarket. Soon there will be a nose correction available (for the first botched nose kits), as well as a seamless intake ducts and accurate early Block 30 wheels.

Mike V

Edited August 6, 2009 by Mike V

[peterm]

It's not that bad, here are my two:

http://www.scam.org.uk/models/2009/F-16A_Norway/DSC_2424.JPG

and

http://www.scam.org.uk/models/2009/F-16DG_...ic/DSC_2436.JPG

And yeah, the nose droops a bit, it's a bit rough round the edges and the tail's a bit strange but it's OK, and the weapons (while maybe a tad heavy on the engraving) are well worth having (and certainly usable, IMHO).

Enjoy (it's a hobby :-)

Edited August 6, 2009 by peterm

[Mike V]

It's not that bad, here are my two:

And yeah, the nose droops a bit, it's a bit rough round the edges and the tail's a bit strange but it's OK, and the weapons (while maybe a tad heavy on the engraving) are well worth having (and certainly usable, IMHO).

Enjoy (it's a hobby :-)

Certainly nice work there, but the nose profile is still quite the eye sore. For the quality level being what it is, you built it up well. High lighting the panel lines in a light wash vs black, keep those heavy panel lines from barking at you.

The A model vertical tail looks odd because Kinetic scaled it wrong. It's too wide, (as wide as the C/D model dorsal base), when is should be significantly thinner in cross section.

All Kinetic drawbacks aside, I find the finish on your F-16AM really well done. What paint did you use and what decals did you use?

I have a Tamiya Block 25 I am converting to an AM and was planning to have it in Norwegian markings.

Mike V

Edited August 7, 2009 by Mike V

[Laurent]

Gary from ARC found a way to improve the look of the nose of the early Kinetic kits (single seaters and the F-16D). Here.

[Wolf]

Mike, have you already build one of this? if so, can you please post pics of the issues that say about the model?

Thanks

Edited August 13, 2009 by Wolf

[peterm]

All Kinetic drawbacks aside, I find the finish on your F-16AM really well done. What paint did you use and what decals did you use?

I have a Tamiya Block 25 I am converting to an AM and was planning to have it in Norwegian markings.

Cheers Mike, appreciate that. It's just Xtracolor X136 (FS16375) and the kit decals. I believe that the Norwegian a/c are now actually painted in 270, but I'm reasonably convinced from looking at photos that they used to be lighter. This pic

http://attach.high-g.net/attachments/f16_1_177.jpg

clearly shows a 375 tank under a 270 airframe (in my opinion :-) And this:

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-phot...4/1/1417145.jpg

looks lighter too... I can't find anything to back me up right now, and I could well be wrong. But it looks nicer that little bit lighter, I think!

Cheers.

[Martin_C]

I´m building F-16 DJ/DG now for a Czech modelers magazine. That´s horrible. Nothing fits, bad surface , panel lines are as old Matchbox kit .

I ´m very frustrated. Kinetic´s Viper never again. Next time I'll better build old Hasegawa kit.

Martin

[Wolf]

I´m building F-16 DJ/DG now for a Czech modelers magazine. That´s horrible. Nothing fits, bad surface , panel lines are as old Matchbox kit .

I ´m very frustrated. Kinetic´s Viper never again. Next time I'll better build old Hasegawa kit.

Martin

Pics?

[Matt Roberts]

If you could find the Hasegawa F-16D....

One benefit of the Kinetic kits - availability, no waiting for Hasegawa to come around to a oddball scheme to put on a two-seater or awaiting Tamiya to finally get thier finger out with a 'D'.

The other is that one can do versions of the Viper that are either impossible or until very recently available only with 2x the cost in resin and decals. Perhaps with the success of the Hasegawa Sufa they may decide that two-seaters sell and get around to some of the other non-USAF Family models

Matt

[Mike V]

Cheers Mike, appreciate that. It's just Xtracolor X136 (FS16375) and the kit decals. I believe that the Norwegian a/c are now actually painted in 270, but I'm reasonably convinced from looking at photos that they used to be lighter.

looks lighter too... I can't find anything to back me up right now, and I could well be wrong. But it looks nicer that little bit lighter, I think!

Cheers.

I actually have that Xtracolor in my paint rack. I’ll try it out when the times comes, so thanks. I hope to get as nice a finish as you.

I´m building F-16 DJ/DG now for a Czech modelers magazine. That´s horrible. Nothing fits, bad surface , panel lines are as old Matchbox kit .

I ´m very frustrated. Kinetic´s Viper never again. Next time I'll better build old Hasegawa kit.

Martin

You’re definitely not the first to express those frustrations towards the Kinetic kit. It’s not a clean build by any standard and requires more than the usual effort to clean up. Every part needs attention, as the tooling is just flat out crude ion some areas. Fit is sloppy in the nose, intake duct, and intake fore assembly.

A couple of new guys in my club are having some serious buyers remorse right now.

If you could find the Hasegawa F-16D....

One benefit of the Kinetic kits - availability, no waiting for Hasegawa to come around to a oddball scheme to put on a two-seater or awaiting Tamiya to finally get thier finger out with a 'D'.

The other is that one can do versions of the Viper that are either impossible or until very recently available only with 2x the cost in resin and decals. Perhaps with the success of the Hasegawa Sufa they may decide that two-seaters sell and get around to some of the other non-USAF Family models

Matt

That’s really not a benefit, that’s a status. Kinetic’s F-16D Kits are more available, as Hasegawa’s are more hit and miss. One can find them quite reasonable though, at local swap meets, contest, and kit collector shows. There also those who would rather wait for a better kit than settle for a lesser one in quality and accuracy. So yes, many F-16 versions in the Kinetic kits, but again at the expense of accuracy and quality; but it's up to the modeler to make the call.

Also, Kinetic’s kits aren’t always “all in one” kits. Their Sufa kit lacks the proper IAF weapons assortment. The one injection molded set that is available, doesn’t include the necessary data link pods. So in the end, you’re cornered into buying aftermarket for the kit after all, which isn’t a bad thing since the IAF weapons from Paragon and Isra are far superior to the Chi-Com injection molded versions.

Mike V

[Wolf]

If you could find the Hasegawa F-16D....

A little correction, Hasegawa doesn't have "D" s....they are "B" models boxed like "D"s but the fuselage panels and IP are from a "B" Viper...

And of course NO weapons apart of a pair of poor detailed Amraams and Sidewinders...

Regards

[plasticguy]

Also, Kinetic’s kits aren’t always “all in one” kits. Their Sufa kit lacks the proper IAF weapons assortment. The one injection molded set that is available, doesn’t include the necessary data link pods. So in the end, you’re cornered into buying aftermarket for the kit after all, which isn’t a bad thing since the IAF weapons from Paragon and Isra are far superior to the Chi-Com injection molded versions.

Mike V

the truth is the most used weapon by IAF sufas are GBU-31, so...

And it's a little obvious that resin parts were more detailled than plastic ones.

Last but not the least you forgot to talk about prices.

[Angels49]

Most definitely on me wish list, right after the Academy F-15E new tool, and the F-15K..between those three I'll 'ave to find a new spares box just for ordnance!!!

[Mike V]

A little correction, Hasegawa doesn't have "D" s....they are "B" models boxed like "D"s but the fuselage panels and IP are from a "B" Viper...

And of course NO weapons apart of a pair of poor detailed Amraams and Sidewinders...

Regards

Not entirely. Simply saying the Has F-16Ds are merely "B"s just because of the aft instro panel, does not fully support that notion. It takes more than just the instrament panel to make a "D".

the truth is the most used weapon by IAF sufas are GBU-31, so...

And it's a little obvious that resin parts were more detailled than plastic ones.

Last but not the least you forgot to talk about prices.

Really? Humm, I recall a common loads configuration sheet from flight test, that says otherwise. For arguement's sake, let's just say that is the case; there's still the fact that the Skuny-wortks set is "Incomplete".

Mike V

Edited August 18, 2009 by Mike V

[plasticguy]

Really? Humm, I recall a common loads configuration sheet from flight test, that says otherwise. For arguement's sake, let's just say that is the case; there's still the fact that the Skuny-wortks set is "Incomplete".

Mike V

You can drown the lower you can, your "opponents " 's products, it will never make your own products better.

Skunkworks IDF weapon set may be incomplete, it exists, and isn't just words (or others companies 's products biased critics).

[Mike V]

Opponent's products

I am far from bias, though I see a certain apologist in this thread definitely leans the other way. It's really about "You get what you pay for" which in this case that's that. I don't give a pass just because a product merely exist in a cheaper form, yet is less superior than the competition. So sorry if you “don’t get it”.

Mike V

[plasticguy]

It is not the money you spend in a kit, that make it better, perhaps it's you moto, but most people don't follow it.

Neil and Isradecals guys make outstanding work, but I'm sorry, Skunkworks set is a good competitor to their respective products.

And although i'm a real Hasegawa consumer, I can not, and you can not deny that their products suck concerning weapon loads, concerning updating.

[Mike V]

No sense trying to explain a point that you will never get; maybe your motto "I don't get it"

I think this horse is dead again

[Mike]

Same old same old from the same protagonists. Just once I'd like a thread with the word "Kinetic" in it to run smoothly without the "Tamiya mafia" decrying everyone for even looking in the direction of the kit in the hobby shop.

Mike Valdez. Accept that people will buy the kit, and that some of those people won't care that it's not quite up to your exacting standards. Some of the others will correct the deficiencies that their skills allow, and others will let the kit moulder in their stashes. Trying to brow beat them into your way of thinking, and calling them "jovial" names when they don't submit to your will won't change anything, but it will upset the Mods.

Perhaps it would be better - if you feel so strongly about it - to set up a website on the subject of "the best F-16 model", that you can direct people to, rather than subjecting those that just want to read a thread about a new kit to your long winded rants on the subject of why you want them to throw their new kit in the trash.