RAF, RN, and Commonwealth Fire Bombs

[Jeffry Fontaine]

Anyone have a good image or three of fire bombs manufactured by the UK and used by the RAF, RN, and Commonwealth Air Forces? Looking for WWII, Cold War, and Modern versions on this theme. Thanks to one of the members on WHIF that posted a question on this subject. I have performed several searches in google and the results have been dismal. The results focus on US manufactured fire bombs but there is little to nothing on the UK variety. I do remember reading something about the drop tanks being modified to perform this role but without a decent reference image it leaves you wanting. This request for information is for my own benefit as well as that of the member on WHIF that posed the question.

***

1. No, I am not interested in the politics or policies surrounding the use of these weapons.

2. Yes, I have checked Ord Data and there is nothing except reference to U.S. manufactured weapons.

3. Please do not suggest that I perform a google search. I have performed several searches on google using Napalm, Fire Bomb, etc and there is nothing beyond the usual conspiracy theorists and usual anti-military pages that provide nothing factual.

Edited May 5, 2009 by Jeffry Fontaine

[gengriz]

Jeffry,

You will find that the use of Napalm (specifically against civilian targets) is prohibited by Protyocol III of the 1980 UN Convention on Certain Conventional Weapons (CCW), to which the UK, and most of the major world powers are signatories. In effect, as use against military targets only is impossible to guarantee, this means that the UK considers the use of any sort of Napalm in warfare as unacceptable.

UK concern about the use of Napalm extends much further back than 1980, so you will find it very difficult to find any evidence of UK aircaft armed with Napalm weapons. Of course, since a number of our NATO allies have Napalm in their inventory (only 2 or 3 nowadays I believe), it is quite possible, but unlikely, that an RAF aircaft in NATO service pre 1980 might have carried such weapons, although they would certainly have been capable.

In any event, the facilities to carry Napalm based weapons have never, to my knowledge, been available on any RN Aircraft Carrier.

FredT

[Jeffry Fontaine]

jeffry,

You will find that the use of Napalm (specifically against civilian targets) is prohibited by Protyocol III of the 1980 UN Convention on Certain Conventional Weapons (CCW), to which the UK, and most of the major world powers are signatories. In effect, as use against military targets only is impossible to guarantee, this means that the UK considers the use of any sort of Napalm in warfare as unacceptable.

UK concern about the use of Napalm extends much further back than 1980, so you will find it very difficult to find any evidence of UK aircaft armed with Napalm weapons. Of course, since a number of our NATO allies have Napalm in their inventory (only 2 or 3 nowadays I believe), it is quite possible, but unlikely, that an RAF aircaft in NATO service pre 1980 might have carried such weapons, although they would certainly have been capable.

In any event, the facilities to carry Napalm based weapons have never, to my knowledge, been available on any RN Aircraft Carrier.

Fred,

Well aware of the protocols for CCW thanks to my recent research on this subject.

I am not interested in the doctrine or policies on flame type weapons since this if for a WHIF application.

[onosendai]

look at this site, maybe help or a initial point for search info:

ORDATA

[Jeffry Fontaine]

look at this site, maybe help or a initial point for search info:

ORDATA

Thanks, but that site is pretty much useless when it comes to flame weapons such as the napalm and fire bombs from any country other than the United States.

[spike7451]

I've just watched an episode of the BBC series 'Coast' (one of the free ones in the papers) & the is footage of the RAF attacking the oil slick created by the Tory Canyon.Not only were the Hunters firing rockets at the ship,they were dropping napalm tanks directly into the blazing ship at very close range.

Merv

[The Velociweiler]

There's a Museum in Gosport, Southern England which specialises in the field of Naval Ordnance.

http://www.explosion.org.uk/

It may be that they do not have specific information they could help you with, but it might be worth getting in touch with them since they may well be able to point you in the correct direction. Certainly Incendiary bombs were deployed by the RAF Post-War, in - for example - Kenya and memory seems to tell me that Shackletons were armed with them briefly in operations against guerilla forces in one of the Arabian Peninsula conflicts. The early 1980's re-issue of the Airfix Harvard\Texan included a small unit of incendiaries to mount under each wing. Possibly the Fleet Air Arm Museum and RAF Museum may also be able to shed some light here.

I know Incendiary munitions are not necessarily the same as Napalm - type weapons, but you might find yourself on the right track.

As far as web searches are concerned - there's a new search engine called 'Icerocket' that I've been using recently which can unearth stuff that Google doesn't go near, and also Google's new 'Bing' search engine is also worth a go.

Edited June 7, 2009 by The Velociweiler

[Julien]

Jeffry,

While no pictures I did have the oppertunity to speak with an ex RAF pilot from 30 Sqn who flew P-47s in the Far East and dropped Napalm.

He said that they were basically external fuel tanks which were filled with the jellies gasoline and fitted with an external striker to set the mixture abalze.

I t was not a popular store to carry as it was basically live all the time. While bombs etc relied on an arming wire coming out when the store was released the tanks were always live and had to be jetisoned before landing as landing with them "live was not a good idea". In fact a friend of his was killed when his engine cut out on take off and the aircraft went in. On crashing the napalm went up!

They did use quite a bit of it as was effective against dug in Japanese troops.

Hope this is of some help.

Julien

[TonyT]

Jeffry,

You will find that the use of Napalm (specifically against civilian targets) is prohibited by Protyocol III of the 1980 UN Convention on Certain Conventional Weapons (CCW), to which the UK, and most of the major world powers are signatories. In effect, as use against military targets only is impossible to guarantee, this means that the UK considers the use of any sort of Napalm in warfare as unacceptable.

UK concern about the use of Napalm extends much further back than 1980, so you will find it very difficult to find any evidence of UK aircaft armed with Napalm weapons. Of course, since a number of our NATO allies have Napalm in their inventory (only 2 or 3 nowadays I believe), it is quite possible, but unlikely, that an RAF aircaft in NATO service pre 1980 might have carried such weapons, although they would certainly have been capable.

In any event, the facilities to carry Napalm based weapons have never, to my knowledge, been available on any RN Aircraft Carrier.

FredT

Cough Cough................

"On Tuesday 28th March 1967 the Fleet Air Arm sent Buccaneers from Lossiemouth to drop forty-two 1,000lb bombs on the wreck. This was followed by the Royal Air Force in sending Hunter jets to drop cans of aviation fuel to make the oil blaze. Seventy five per cent of the bombs were on target and both sections of the wreck were on fire.

However, exceptionally high tides had put the blaze out and it took further attacks by Sea Vixens from the Naval Air Station at Yeovilton and Buccaneers from the Naval Air Station at Brawdy as well as more RAF Hunters with napalm to ignite the oil until the wreck was free from oil."

http://www.axfordsabode.org.uk/torreycn.htm

so look for some pics of the sinking of the said boat.

BTW the Jaguar had a setting for Bombs Fire on its weapons panel, though we never had any.

Edited June 9, 2009 by TonyT

[TonyT]

Actual breakdown of the attack:-

28 March 1967

8 Buccs of 736 and 800 NAS - 42 1000 lbs Bombs (about 30 hit the ship). Followed by an unknown number of 229 OCU Hunters with 100 gallon drop tanks filled with Napalm.

29 Mach 1967

Ships still afloat and not much sign of visible damage.

8 Hunters from West Raynham and 26 Hunters from 229 OCU attacked with Napalm and 3 inch rockets, followed by 8 Buccs from 736 NAS, again with 1000 pounders. The 8 Buccs then rearmed and attacked the ship again, followed by 4 Sea Vixens with Napalm.

30 March 1967

Ships still afloat and still not much sign of visible damage.

Attacks by 6 Sea Vixens with 1000 pounders, 8 Buccs again with 1000 pounders, another 3 Sea Vixens again with 1000 pounders, 30 RAF Hunters with Kerosene filled drop tanks and a futher 6 RAF Hunters with petrol filled incendiaries and 3 inch rockets.

Wreck then barely visible and oil escaping to the wreck almost ceased.

Total amount of weapons employed:-

165 1000 pound HE bombs

30,000 gallons of Napalm (300 drop tanks)

10,000 gallons of Avtur (100 drop tanks)

unknown number of rockets and petrol bombs.

... WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW..

from

http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/archive/i...hp?t-58160.html

[Julien]

165 1000 pound HE bombs

30,000 gallons of Napalm (300 drop tanks)

10,000 gallons of Avtur (100 drop tanks)

unknown number of rockets and petrol bombs.

Holy bomb camp batman! thats some seroius stuff there.

Can you imagine the horror, tree huggers etc all screaming if someone even suggested that now!

Julien

[pigsty]

I have a faint memory of there being some fuss about one side or other using napalm in the Falklands. If that's right - and if it wasn't Argentina - then photo-references of Sea Harriers from back then might offer some clues.

[wyverns4]

I have a faint memory of there being some fuss about one side or other using napalm in the Falklands. If that's right - and if it wasn't Argentina - then photo-references of Sea Harriers from back then might offer some clues.

Yup we found leaking napalm canisters (IIRC re-used drop tanks) down South. Can´t remember the location of the airfield though, but I think they were set up for Pucara use.

Christian the Married

[The Velociweiler]

Yup we found leaking napalm canisters (IIRC re-used drop tanks) down South. Can´t remember the location of the airfield though, but I think they were set up for Pucara use.

Christian the Married

Can't remember if the prepared Airstrip was at Darwin or Goose Green, but, yes, discarded and degraded Napalm Canisters were discovered leaking and in a hazardous condition after the Battle for Goose Green on location. There were reports of Pucaras actually dropping the weapons during some of the early fighting, but the eyewitness reports indicate that either the ground was unsuitable for use, or the condition of the ordnance itself precluded successful operation. I remember an article somewhere in the dim and distant past that the bombs were last seen cartwheeling down a hillside contested by troops, dispensing unburned material.

[Murdo]

Can't remember if the prepared Airstrip was at Darwin or Goose Green

There was a grass strip at Goose green with a couple of Pucaras on it. There was also another aircraft but I can't remember now what it was, I can picture it, just can't remember what it was... Sort of humpbacked jet iirc.

We spent a fair amount of time playing with these till the Sappers decided they were mined.

[TonyT]

Skyhawk?

but then again we pushed the rules a bit too during the Falkilands war.....

I remember reading an article about a couple of UK pilots that found an Italian speedboat during WW2 and spent many a day blasting about the bay in their new toy until someone pointed out it was actually a suicide weapon and the nose had close to a ton of Amatol and a detonator in it.

[ejboyd5]

In my readings on Operation Firedog I seem to remember that the RAF experimented with something call the Griffin Bomb which was a napalm concoction of some sort. The experiment was discontinued when it was discovered that however strong the stimulus the jungle simply would not burn.