TEZ Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 Hi everyone, Having spent many hours watching FRADU Hunters 'over the fence' at Yeovilton the sight of a Hunter carrying 230 tanks was a rare one. Indeed the only regular carrier was the T.8M. I have just looked up my references and found the following information in Ray Deacon's book, 'Hawker Hunter Fifty - Golden Years': GA.11: XE707 '...In the early sixties, it was selected for conversion to GA.11 standard (including wing Mod-228) and first flew from Dunsfold as such on 4th July, 1963...'. It would appear that those GA.11's which were bought for private overseas ownership were also 228 modded e.g. WV256, XE685, XE707, XF300, XF368 etc. I do remember seeing a number of these aircraft prior to their ferry flights to the US. Included amongst these were some standard T.8's carrying 230 tanks. Bill, I have a feeling that the rocket firing Hunter coincided with an AWI course that was under way at the time. It also presented a good opportunity to use up the last remaining pods. Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenMG Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 (edited) Interesting.............would it have been a straight forward case of just bolting the bigger tanks on - weighing over twice as much? The wings would need strengthening (as it was in updating the F6 to the FGA9?). In this respect this mod of the early 1980's (nearer 1984 I think) would have maybe done just that? In that case the 230 gall tanks would seem a bit more of a permament arrangement. It is an interesting one I agree. Both the 230 gallon and 100 gallon tanks are interchangeable on the correct pylon so no problems actually mounting the tank. As for the wing strengthening - I'm not sure. I've never heard of the GA.11 wings having any additional strengthening added to be honest and just assumed they were the standard Mod.228 wings. The FGA.9 wings were indeed strengthened but then the 230 gallon tanks were non-jettisonable and so the wings (in conjunction with the tank bracing strut which never seems to have been fitted to the GA.11) had to be stressed for combat loads with the tanks on. It would be interesting to find out the permitted loading of a Mod.228 wing's inner pylons as a 'filled to the brim' 230 gallon tank weighs almost a ton! And as for ferrying...why and to where. FRADU Hunters were often seen at Gibraltar - with smaller tanks. Can't remember seeing them any further afield than that, so why the need for larger tanks just for ferrying? Note I said "ferry-type flights" meaning relatively 'gentle' flights without high G loading or violent combat-style manoeuvres. I still believe the large tanks were infrequently used and for, maybe, operations requiring longer flights out to ships at sea. Beyond that assumption I don't know. I'm not sure what the farthest out to sea the aircraft were operated by FRADU was to be honest. Anyone? AND Here's a query from me...Hunters were by now unarmed....Whats going on here and why? Dated from 1984 GA11 lets rip! Now that is an interesting, and rare, thing - a FRADU Hunter firing RPs. They're probably 68mm SNEBs, presumably in a Type 116M launcher given that the starboard one has no nose - the 116M was a single-use launcher with a frangible nose cone. They were fired as a 19 RP salvo, which is what we're seeing here. A rare sight because, as the FRADU-Hunters website where this picture came from also says - "The FRADU Hunters were almost always fitted without armament so seeing them carrying let alone firing live ammunition was very rare." This is supported by a look through the photos on the website - you'd be hard-pressed to find an aircraft with a GGS fitted. Edited May 2, 2009 by StephenMG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonymousAA72 Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 (edited) Seems we've hijacked this thread a bit!! Sorry Oz!!! Anyway, I'm enjoying this, given me a chance to scan through the FRADU website again!!! Ed G and I had a similar conversation (On ARC?) a few years ago when he was converting his GA11. At that time it was something I was unaware of..namely GA11's with 230 gall tanks. Like you Stephen and you TEZ, I have little doubt that these occurances were rare - but they did happen. It would be interesting to find a date for photo's with 230 gall tanks on GA11's. Looking at the individual aircraft histories on the FRADU site suggests that most had a re-fit /major overhaul in the mid - 80's and most stayed in service until the early mid 90's. It would be interesting to see if these photo's were taken towards the end of their career - easier to ferry them with the 230 gall tanks - even if only to Exeter - than transport them separately? Maybe its the association with Dark Sea Grey GA11's - as only these seem to have the larger tanks - thats confusing matters? As for the photo of the GA11 letting rip , I reckon that this could simply be a PR stunt...hence the photographer being present. There would be absolutely no need to keep FRADU pilots (normally civilian volunteers) or FRADU Hunters for that matter "current"!! EDIT: talking of armament(?) Just found this pic. Dated 1986......the same aircraft (XE685/ 861) "letting rip" as above... Interesting stores Edited May 2, 2009 by Bill Clark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homebee Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 (edited) Seems we've hijacked this thread a bit!! Sorry Oz!!! Me too. Here are some pictures of a 1/32 Revell Hunter converted into GA.11: http://fighters.forumactif.com/1-32e-1-24e...fradu-t7259.htm http://moshe16.ifrance.com/Page%20Hunter%20GA-11.htm Mine is now under "klearification" (WIP http://www.master194.com/forum/viewtopic.p...=443399#p443399 )! I like your cockpit work OzH. V.P. ----------------------- HELP I'm still looking for the injected Aeroclub 1/48th Jet Provost T.5 (ref. K442) and Hawker Hunter T.7 conversion (ref. K831). PM me if you have one - or the two - for sale! Thanks in advance. Edited May 3, 2009 by Homebee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenMG Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 Here are some pictures of a 1/32 Revell Hunter converted into GA.11:http://fighters.forumactif.com/1-32e-1-24e...fradu-t7259.htm At last! One with the tail bumper and arrestor hook in the right place! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzH Posted May 2, 2009 Author Share Posted May 2, 2009 Really nice paintjob there Homebee, like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonymousAA72 Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 Really nice paintjob there Homebee, like it. Heres one I did a few years ago in 1/32nd.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEZ Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 (edited) EDIT: talking of armament(?) Just found this pic. Dated 1986......the same aircraft (XE685/ 861) "letting rip" as above... Interesting stores Bill, Yeovilton was also the home of MEWSG (now JEWCS) - which are responsible for electronic warfare. Andrew Edited May 3, 2009 by TEZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonymousAA72 Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 (edited) Hi everyone,Having spent many hours watching FRADU Hunters 'over the fence' at Yeovilton the sight of a Hunter carrying 230 tanks was a rare one. Indeed the only regular carrier was the T.8M. I have just looked up my references and found the following information in Ray Deacon's book, 'Hawker Hunter Fifty - Golden Years': GA.11: XE707 '...In the early sixties, it was selected for conversion to GA.11 standard (including wing Mod-228) and first flew from Dunsfold as such on 4th July, 1963...'. It would appear that those GA.11's which were bought for private overseas ownership were also 228 modded e.g. WV256, XE685, XE707, XF300, XF368 etc. I do remember seeing a number of these aircraft prior to their ferry flights to the US. Included amongst these were some standard T.8's carrying 230 tanks. Bill, I have a feeling that the rocket firing Hunter coincided with an AWI course that was under way at the time. It also presented a good opportunity to use up the last remaining pods. Andrew Hi Andrew, Been doing some digging around re Mod-228, and according to Wings of Fame Vol. 20, 40 F4s were chosen for conversion to GA11. There was two standards of GA11 and 16 of the 40 had Mod -228 and were fitted with the four pylon wing. It appears that the remainder retained the two pylon wing as per the F4. It adds a few pages later that the F6 had this wing as standard, i.e with four pylons (two each side of course!). Even later it describes how converted F6's- to F6A and new FGA9's had "restressed and rewired wings to allow the carriage of 230gal/1046 Litre tanks and air-ground weapons." This suggests to me that Mod-228 had nothing whatsoever to do with the conversion to allow the 230 Gal tank to be carried. Therefore GA11 weren't capable of carrying the big bags as a part of Mod-228, nor was this possible pre- 1980 something or other. FRADU Hunters did go in for major re-furb (and re-paint) in the early 1980's and its only after this that we see evidence of 230 gal tanks being carried. The photo's we see could certainly be prior to retirement, but I still believe that the wings would need a major re-work to enable them to carry so much additional weight. Right! I shall now go and do some more digging...The truth is out there!!! EDIT: talking of armament(?) Just found this pic. Dated 1986......the same aircraft (XE685/ 861) "letting rip" as above...Interesting stores Bill, Yeovilton was also the home of MEWSG (now JEWCS) - which are responsible for electronic warfare. Andrew What are those stores then? I thought they were CRV7's? Edited May 3, 2009 by Bill Clark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEZ Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 What are those stores then? I thought they were CRV7's? GA11 EW store If you look closely on your photo you will notice the hazard marking found on EW pods (ALQ 101's 119's, 131's etc). The above picture is circa 1990. I have seen some other photos recently showing GA11's carrying these pods. Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonymousAA72 Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 What are those stores then? I thought they were CRV7's?GA11 EW store If you look closely on your photo you will notice the hazard marking found on EW pods (ALQ 101's 119's, 131's etc). The above picture is circa 1990. I have seen some other photos recently showing GA11's carrying these pods. Andrew Yup. I reckon you're right! It certainly makes more sense a FRADU Hunter carrying electronic pods than carrying CR7's or RP's for that matter! Right....MORE diggin' then.........!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
periklis_sale Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 nice work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzH Posted June 18, 2009 Author Share Posted June 18, 2009 Slight change of plan on both of these. Decided to got for an early GA11, so EDSG over White and the T.8 will now be an Admirals Bardge, Blue over white. Hopefully you'll see why over the next few months... Anyway, some progess on the GA11, ready for decals: She's going to be XE682 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonymousAA72 Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Slight change of plan on both of these.Decided to got for an early GA11, so EDSG over White and the T.8 will now be an Admirals Bardge, Blue over white. Hopefully you'll see why over the next few months... Anyway, some progess on the GA11, ready for decals: She's going to be XE682 Fantastic Oz!! Blue Herons? Have a look at the pic's on the FRADU site that you linked to..the first pic of 835 (ca.1975) has the side number higher up (or the demarkation line lower?) than on the latter pic's...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p-26luvr Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 A SUPERIOR thread. I've read it from the start. I love the off thread pictures. I am planning to do a 2 seater sometime later on & I will be looking forward to more progress photos. Thanks for showing your work so far. Carl T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windy Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 Looks like it will be another stunning model in the making Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Mureth Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 The GA11 is looking SUPERB so far!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham T Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 Interesting.............would it have been a straight forward case of just bolting the bigger tanks on - weighing over twice as much? The wings would need strengthening (as it was in updating the F6 to the FGA9?). In this respect this mod of the early 1980's (nearer 1984 I think) would have maybe done just that? In that case the 230 gall tanks would seem a bit more of a permament arrangement. And as for ferrying...why and to where. FRADU Hunters were often seen at Gibraltar - with smaller tanks. Can't remember seeing them any further afield than that, so why the need for larger tanks just for ferrying? Just a few thoughts........ AND Here's a query from me...Hunters were by now unarmed.... Whats going on here and why? Dated from 1984 GA11 lets rip! I can't recall where but I'm sure I read somewhere that the F6/GA11 COULD carry the larger tanks for ferry purposes but, lacking the cut out flaps, flap use was "limited" by a mechanical jury rig or, FGA9 flaps could be fitted as required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzH Posted June 28, 2009 Author Share Posted June 28, 2009 Here's the GA11 finished: More pictures here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmcoker Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 Very nice mate. There's something about the Hunter in that naval scheme, just really seems to suit it. Excellent job Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham T Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 Wow, nice subtle weathering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzH Posted September 15, 2009 Author Share Posted September 15, 2009 Here's a couple of progres shots of my T8. Bit of a change of plan, now as XL584 Flag Officer, Flying Training scheme Just out of the paint shop: And with decaling complete ready for a wash: Love this aircraft, has some great lines Thought I'd include this one on a black background, what a difference it makes to the colour! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonymousFY21 Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 Nice work on both of them. Just wish the T.7 conversion was still available. rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHREAK Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 Wonderful looking pair of Hunters, nicely done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiffy Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 And with decaling complete ready for a wash: Ohh, that's gorgeous. I hope it's not gonna be too heavy of a wash, 'cos she looks perfect with that paint on. Love this aircraft, has some great lines "You're not wrong there, mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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