Danny Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 Does anyone know if there are maintenance jobs around that involve working on vintage aircraft and where I could find them? I realise most aircraft are looked after by volunteers but surely there has to be someone who's trained to carry out maintenance tasks for legal reasons? Thinking of my future that's all Danny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little-cars Posted March 28, 2009 Share Posted March 28, 2009 You could try Vintage Fabrics, they might be able to point you in the right direction. http://www.vintagefabrics.co.uk/index.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyT Posted March 28, 2009 Share Posted March 28, 2009 What experience have you got? BTW they are not all volunteers, far from it, but the pay is not that good at that end of the spectrum...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonymousDFB1 Posted March 28, 2009 Share Posted March 28, 2009 Most people I know are volunteers, the only person I know who used to work in the field is Andy (AndyL on here) maybe he can point you in the right direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Posted March 28, 2009 Author Share Posted March 28, 2009 What experience have you got? Not a lot to be honest After trade training four and half years ago I was posted to Merlins and have been there ever since Other than that I've done some marshalling at a fly-in that the local ATC sqn (that I help out with) was involved in - you know someone's loaded when they have a garden party for their friends who all fly in! At least I can claim I've marshalled both jet and pistion Provosts and a Hurricane When you say that the pay's at the lower end of the scale Tony, do you have any rough ideas what they are on? Danny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyT Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 (edited) Your info says SAC Tech which is an old JT correct? and Avionics? DO YOU'RE LICENCES IN THE RAF simple as that, a fully licenced Avionics engineer could be on close to 50-60 thousand a year on airlines......... you can then play with warbirds to your hearts content, Most of Duxford seems to think you are running a Charity when it comes to wages and pay a pittance....... Airframe and Engines are the main needs or electrics, avionics on these are none existant Apply for the BBMF Edited March 29, 2009 by TonyT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_c Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 i've been considering the same sort of thing Danny, although on a voluntary basis to begin with. maybe do that to start with, restoration work with museums maybe, then you could get into it full time. the pay probably isn't anywhere near ours though mate, so licenses and contracting is probably the way forward if you want to be minted. Apply for the BBMF i've been told the BBMF don't take any ground trades now due to operational commitments, it's all been contracted out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 Danny, I used to know a couple of guys who ran a business restoring DeHavilland aircraft like Tiger Moths etc, they would tell you its an expensive business but it doesn't pay much. For instance if you could afford to buy a Tiggie that needed restoration, they'd first survey it and then carry out whatever restoration was needed - quite often this required a lot of replacement items be it wood, metal whatever and was all done by time served craftsmen. Invariably the engine and prop would go away for restoration - all of this has to be done to an approved standard, by an approved organisation. Above all, it all costs money. I've now lost contact with guys since, but I do recall them saying that the costs were high but the profits low. As TonyT says you could do your licences but be prepared for a lot of hard work - you'll be expected to know things in far greater depth than your training has given you, but it may allow you to tout your wares around the bazzars. In the meantime find out if there's anybody near to you who are doing this sort of work and offer your services - they may say no or they may bite your hand off, you don't know unless you try. Regards Wez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickers McFunbus Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 i've been told the BBMF don't take any ground trades now due to operational commitments, it's all been contracted out Quite a lot of FTRS posts on the engineering side too, with quite a few faces who've been there the best part of 20 years or more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miggers Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 Go on here,make yourself a member and put up a post. http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/forumdisp...sprune=&f=4 There's quite a few vintage or classic restoration and maintenance bods that get on. If it's the BBMF you're interested in,then look out for "Fluffy",he's one the BBMF lads that gets on there. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyT Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 (edited) Quite a lot of FTRS posts on the engineering side too, with quite a few faces who've been there the best part of 20 years or more. A lot of them are simply BBMF Engineers that upon leaving the Service are retained as civilians on the BBMF but with a no sand clause, though they are short of Engineers last I heard. Your main problem is your trade. Most if not all of the work is Airframe / Engine related, with very little Avionics, but some electrical, I have full Piston Engine coverage on my licences, from the smallest to the biggest and also Airframes, Unlike the RAF, my licences cover Electrics and also Instruments etc, The only thing it does not cover really is Radios. I do help out in a very minor way with a Spit next door, but have worked on them a little my the past life and also on stuff like Devons etc..... but hand on heart and to be honest, with the years I have in the Business I just look on them like another Aircraft and do not go week knee'd and gaga at the sight of one.... However your trade depenant on what it covers Avionics wise could be a premium in the Airline or Helicopter industry, but as said DO YOUR LICENCES IN THE RAF........... I cannot beat that into you hard enough, I did'nt and it took me ages to get them done self studying. whilst realising some of the muppets I worked with who had them struggled to assemble a coherent sentence, let alone an Engine. There is nothing to stop you doing all of your licences BTW all trades, just time and hard work........... This will help you on the first step to seeing what you need, Problem being EASA I do not think recognise RAF service, where as the CAA did, however warbirds are not on EASA yet, though to certify those under A8 it can be done on approvals and not licences, so they are not needed, I know of one company operating as such......... All of the bits above I am throwing at you might be confusing but it will come to you..... I too in the RAF looked upon people doing licences as......why? I then realised I was the fool not to do them when I could. OK link to help you if you decide to do them. http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?cati...ail&id=2382 I will help you as and when I can if you want to do these........... Edited March 29, 2009 by TonyT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickers McFunbus Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 A lot of them are simply BBMF Engineers that upon leaving the Service are retained as civilians on the BBMF but with a no sand clause, though they are short of Engineers last I heard. Indeed, why lose the experience of people such as Paul Blackah (who of course made his reputation working on "the enemy*" before the BBMF). *I see the next "Haynes manual" release is the BF109, of which he is a co-author. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Posted March 30, 2009 Author Share Posted March 30, 2009 Thanks for all your replies Definately given me something to think hard about Can I just check something about trades though? Although my trade is Avionics, that covers anything avionic or electrical now and as far as I understood the Avionics Technician and Aircraft Electrical Technician trades became merged into Avionics to bring us in line with 'civi-street.' Are Avionics and Electrical still separate in the civilain world? With regard to doing my licences, that is something I'm going to have to find out more about. I'm going to have to find the time somewhere to do them as over the last couple of years I've been doing training to help with my applications to the Fire and Rescue Services (anyone want to make their car a convertable? ) and that's taken a massive chunk out of my free time :shithappens: And as for the BBMF that's kind of a sore point When I joined the RAF I was naive enought to think that volunteering as soon as I started training would give me a fair chance of getting a posting there after, say, 7 or 8 years Then the RAF brought in a new admin system and binned the lists Now volunteering is as easy as selecting File and Save on Word and I know a lot of people who've volunteered because 'that'll be a good posting' when I know they wouldn't have bothered if they had to fill out a form, getting it signed by the Jengo, etc. I asked advice on how to make myself stand out when they're looking for volunteers and was told to mention it in another box that gets looked at during assessments. Seeing as every report and assessment that's been written about me since joining has said that I want to work Sentry or Sentinal and hope to earn a posting to the BBMF and I've had no help in moving from helicopters I have my doubts that that'll do any good I've also spoken to someone who's ex-BBMF and he told me that he managed to get on there because the then WO was his old FS I've also heard the rumour that the maintenance side of it will go compelety civilian like the Sea Kings soon to save money Danny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_c Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 And as for the BBMF that's kind of a sore point When I joined the RAF I was naive enought to think that volunteering as soon as I started training would give me a fair chance of getting a posting there after, say, 7 or 8 years Then the RAF brought in a new admin system and binned the lists Now volunteering is as easy as selecting File and Save on Word and I know a lot of people who've volunteered because 'that'll be a good posting' when I know they wouldn't have bothered if they had to fill out a form, getting it signed by the Jengo, etc. I asked advice on how to make myself stand out when they're looking for volunteers and was told to mention it in another box that gets looked at during assessments. Seeing as every report and assessment that's been written about me since joining has said that I want to work Sentry or Sentinal and hope to earn a posting to the BBMF and I've had no help in moving from helicopters I have my doubts that that'll do any good I've also spoken to someone who's ex-BBMF and he told me that he managed to get on there because the then WO was his old FS Danny same here mate! ive had BBMF ticked since JPA came in and it's been on my assessment for the last 7 years along with Crash 'n Smash (even filled out the form in pre-JPA days) but i don't think anyone bothers looking at it TBH. i'm hoping that my upcoming posting to Hercs will help me loose my career long Helicopter tag and get me onto something more interesting and less sandy. or at least help me fixed wing license wise. good luck getting off Merlins though mate, ive been lucky and swapped post with one of our JT's but i know of Fairys that are struggling to get off. last year one of our few Fairy SAC(T)'s even got a 'special' posting to Waddo on 'Shadow' rejected because he was 'more important' to the MFES Telic plot. people are playing with our careers and i don't like it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAC Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 You could try the De Havilland Hertiage Centre (not a million miles from Oxfordshire -M40/M25). http://www.dehavillandmuseum.co.uk/index.html They are always looking for volunteer members to help restore aircraft to static condition -there's no airfield and the cost would be too high. I originally joined back in the early 1990's with no previous experience but I had guidence by other members who know what they were doing. I believe the museum now does training courses for restoration. I don't know what sort of certificate you get. I helped on the DH94 Moth Minor for about 6 years until I moved further away and other 'life' things took up my time but here's a bunch of photos showing how far I got. DH94 as shown in it's 'recovered' condition. Cowlings stripped and cleaned. Cowlings etch primed and fuselage rubbed down -in hindsight we should have recovered the fabric. Silver dope added. Fuselage primed and original 1950's raceing markings added. Black outlines and silver paint applied. Pushed outside for annual open day. Rear control surfaces ready for fabric. Wings still to be done. John Cunningham seemed quite pleased. (He test flew this type). He even signed a painting I did of the plane. (Sorry for poor quality -it's a scan of a bad picture) Cockpit before and after. This is about as far as I got with it. Over the past few years others have finished the project. Finally how it looked in the 1950's which is how we wanted to restore it back to. There are still many projects that need doing so if anyone wants to lend a hand get intouch with the museum. They are a friendly bunch! I just wish I had more time to get down there and do stuff. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desmojen Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 same here mate! ive had BBMF ticked since JPA came in and it's been on my assessment for the last 7 years along with Crash 'n Smash (even filled out the form in pre-JPA days) but i don't think anyone bothers looking at it TBH. i'm hoping that my upcoming posting to Hercs will help me loose my career long Helicopter tag and get me onto something more interesting and less sandy. or at least help me fixed wing license wise.good luck getting off Merlins though mate, ive been lucky and swapped post with one of our JT's but i know of Fairys that are struggling to get off. last year one of our few Fairy SAC(T)'s even got a 'special' posting to Waddo on 'Shadow' rejected because he was 'more important' to the MFES Telic plot. people are playing with our careers and i don't like it! Same here. I recently volunteered to an ad on the manning page for RSS (to develope my sheet metal skills) and was told I couldn't do it as I have no experience. Well that's great then, since we aren't allowed to do those kind of repairs at Lyneham any more, and the structures bay is civvy. So how do I get experience then? Had BBMF in since I left training and no luck, yet last time I was on guard, was on with a lad who rang up wanting to go to Conninsgby, and all they could offer him was BBMF....... Oh and good luck with the 'less sand' bit at Lyneham mate Jen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miggers Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Thanks for all your replies Definately given me something to think hard about Can I just check something about trades though? Although my trade is Avionics, that covers anything avionic or electrical now and as far as I understood the Avionics Technician and Aircraft Electrical Technician trades became merged into Avionics to bring us in line with 'civi-street.' Are Avionics and Electrical still separate in the civilain world? With regard to doing my licences, that is something I'm going to have to find out more about. I'm going to have to find the time somewhere to do them as over the last couple of years I've been doing training to help with my applications to the Fire and Rescue Services (anyone want to make their car a convertable? ) and that's taken a massive chunk out of my free time :shithappens: And as for the BBMF that's kind of a sore point When I joined the RAF I was naive enought to think that volunteering as soon as I started training would give me a fair chance of getting a posting there after, say, 7 or 8 years Then the RAF brought in a new admin system and binned the lists Now volunteering is as easy as selecting File and Save on Word and I know a lot of people who've volunteered because 'that'll be a good posting' when I know they wouldn't have bothered if they had to fill out a form, getting it signed by the Jengo, etc. I asked advice on how to make myself stand out when they're looking for volunteers and was told to mention it in another box that gets looked at during assessments. Seeing as every report and assessment that's been written about me since joining has said that I want to work Sentry or Sentinal and hope to earn a posting to the BBMF and I've had no help in moving from helicopters I have my doubts that that'll do any good I've also spoken to someone who's ex-BBMF and he told me that he managed to get on there because the then WO was his old FS I've also heard the rumour that the maintenance side of it will go compelety civilian like the Sea Kings soon to save money Danny Air Atlantique did the last "major" on the Lanc at Coventry,Historic Flying did MK356 and refitted a 70 series Merlin over at Duxford, engine overhauls are done by Retro Air at Dursley though there's extensive support by Rolls Royce. Ormonde Aircraft make the exhaust stubs and all the aircraft have had their electrical systems upgraded to 24volt because of difficulties getting spares for the original 12volt,all the wiring has been upgraded to modern specs with plastic insulation instead of the old rubber and cotton variety but retain the original bakelite connector. With TE311(Spit XVI),Paul Blackah and Andy Bale have been restoring her in their spare time for the past eight years,though the wings have been rebuilt and re-skinned by Airframe Assemblies on the Isle of Wight. So yes a lot of stuff is now subbed out to civvie contractors. It might be worth your while becoming a member of the Lincolnshire Lancaster Association and getting down to Coningsby for the Member's Day at the end of the display season. At least you'll get to meet the OC,Al Pinner,the other aircrew and Paul Blackah and Andy Bale.You just never know what a word in the right ears may achieve. Good luck Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_c Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Oh and good luck with the 'less sand' bit at Lyneham mate Jen. yeah, i know mate but at least i will see other places aswell as the desert. the only place ive ever been to in my 7 years service is Iraq, albiet a few times and the usual couple of hour stops in Qatar and Kuwait........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Posted March 31, 2009 Author Share Posted March 31, 2009 (edited) good luck getting off Merlins though mate, ive been lucky and swapped post with one of our JT's but i know of Fairys that are struggling to get off. last year one of our few Fairy SAC(T)'s even got a 'special' posting to Waddo on 'Shadow' rejected because he was 'more important' to the MFES Telic plot. people are playing with our careers and i don't like it! Tell me about it! I have a catalogue of escape attempts from Merlins that would rival some of the inmates in the Great Escape I'm 'ed off with the amount of you get fobbed off with On one point I was told I couldn't go because SAC(T) isn't a rank and I needed to do three years in post and that SAC(T) is a rank and therefore I won't be moved until promoted to Cpl - in the SAME phone call!!! Good luck with the posting to Herc's though Paul! Danny Edited March 31, 2009 by Danny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyT Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 (edited) Sorry to be late replying Danny, The Electrical licence dissapeared under EASA and was combined into the main licences, above 5700KG in AUW you need to basically on an Airframe Engine front do a course and sit an exam to remove the limitations off your licence, same on Avionics I believe. below that it is part and parcel of the Licence for Engines and Airframes..... It may suprised you to know but there are well over 200 plus Different Aircraft and engine types on my licences from Flying boat type things to DC7's and everything in between, indeed I had to look up what some of them were as I had never heard of them. Even now it is incorrect because the list keeps changing since it was issued and some of my limitations have gone.. The Avionics licences are B2 groups, I hold a A1 ( all licences include that) couple of different B1 groups and C... C is the unusual one as it enables me to Certify Airworthiness Review Certificates (ARC) which nbasically renews the none expiring Airworthiness Certificate........ I do what the CAA used to do in theory which was to issue the Certificate of Airworthiness under the old scheme, it was renewed every 3 years and in theory the CAA would survey an Aircraft every 10 or so years, but in pratice I did it, deemed it Airworthy and they issued the CofA on my say so...... the ARC just lumps it all on me and ensures the CAA do not get sued when it all ends in tears..... The buck now stops here. Have you tried blanket bombing the system with applications for the BBMF ? or even writing a letter direct to those that matter, I.E AL Pinner, after all what have you to lose and at least you will get noticed....... It shows your keen....... NEVER TAKE NO FOR AN ANSWER...... During the last 6 months of my RAF career in 89 they changed the terms for extending your service and as another person was due out of the RAF at the same time, but did not want to make waves in case it effected his chances and because I was on my way out and did not care I took up the cause and went through the redressal proccess to have an interview with the AOC, First I was interviewed by some WO in SHQ and he tried all afternoon to ruin my day promising the earth to get me into seeing different people etc if I would withdraw it............ not having it, next OC Admin some Wing Commander tried his best, Bring them on....... then up to the Station Commanders for a"Chat" and he was not having it on his station, I pointed out that it was MY RIGHT, If it was blocked I march out smartly on his AOC's parade straight up to the AOC and point out that my rights to have a formal interview with him had be stopped by none other than the Group Captain standing beside him............ Next was the AOC, they only allow 10 minutes in the Schedule for redressals because they never happen, 1.30 hrs later and I was still at it, end of his interview I said, well, you obviously have neither the authority nor the means to rectify this, SO I redressed HIM...... The SWO nearly fainted and it went all the way to the Chief of the Airstaff I got a personally signed letter from him saying nope, and some barsteward stole it I was all for taking it to the PM as that was the next in line, but was dissuaded.......... My final kick to the system was at Brize there was a blanket Ban on doing ground runs on Sunday except for operational requirement due to Church Parade ( Station Commanders standing order as he attended), Some Muppet put me on a ROYAL for my final 3 weeks, so on the Sunday Morning, my 3rd last day in the RAF I had the VC10 dragged out to do the ground runs to restabish the Oil Levels as we had to and as it was an Operational Need, I was cleared to take them up to ground idle with a brief excursion to 80% to clear the drains. I had a young WRAF Corporal on brakes, and as Church parade was on, the aircraft was pointing in the right direction for maximum annoyance factor I wound them all up to 100% and left them there..... Wraf looked worried, but I pointed out it was all on me, Radio came alive so I turned it down , eventually a car came out from ops to see WTF was going on and take me to see OC OPS, was being read the riot act on what was going to happen when I said, well they better hurry up about it, because I will be a Civilian by Wednesday he burst out laughing....... I was lucky, got my first choice of postings ( you could put in for what you wanted post training and worked on 1st line Wessex and Puma, when the OCU split I was asked, what do you want, Go to Benson (where you are I suspect) with the Wessex, Stay on Puma or go on Chinook, so elected to be on the 1st line Chinook at the start, Applied for RAFG after several years and went onto that not so fast Jet, the Jaguar did 1st line 20 Sqn and 14 Sqn followed by 3 months Ardour deep strip on 431MU ( 3 months to long and vowed to stay 1st line ) back to UK and 1st line VC10, sent on courses which normally resulted in postings and was originally supposed to come back to Brize and into BASE Hangar on VC10 Majors......... Boss was not having it so got me back on 1st line on same shift for the rest of my career..... Lots of dets, even to the sandpit........... well the beaches of Sardinia and Cyprus if those count , with most of Europe if not all of it, Snowy bits of Europe too and the likes of the US and Canada..... Good times had by all.......... was even slated to go to No 11 Downing Street for drinkies as a thank you for the VIP's, my Boss had a warped sense of humour that I would liven the party up, But I chose to go on leave instead Edited to add a picture of what is on my EASA Licence, if you can work out what I can do please let me know, your a better man than I am......... See http://www.skonk.net/main.php?g2_view=core..._serialNumber=1 Edited March 31, 2009 by TonyT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_c Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Tell me about it! I have a catalogue of escape attempts from Merlins that would rival some of the inmates in the Great Escape I'm 'ed off with the amount of you get fobbed off with On one point I was told I couldn't go because SAC(T) isn't a rank and I needed to do three years in post and that SAC(T) is a rank and therefore I won't be moved until promoted to Cpl - in the SAME phone call!!! Good luck with the posting to Herc's though Paul! Danny cheers mate. with regards to our rank, it makes me worry that JPA/PMA regard it as 'acting' wrt getting off MFES, i suppose you could stick an exchange post thread up on the RAF Sales and Wants board and see what comes of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miggers Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Great stories Tony. The VC10 at 100% had me laughing. "The SWO nearly fainted"bit was a good'un too. Never been "mob"myself,but I've been a modeller and hung around aviaton circles long enough to know most of the terminology and a fair few of the "faces" in the vintage/classic sectors. Al Pinner seems a pretty decent sort,as do all the BBMF bods,but then again I only know him to speak to through the Lincs Lanc Assoc and don't work for him. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyT Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Great stories Tony.The VC10 at 100% had me laughing. "The SWO nearly fainted"bit was a good'un too. Never been "mob"myself,but I've been a modeller and hung around aviaton circles long enough to know most of the terminology and a fair few of the "faces" in the vintage/classic sectors. Al Pinner seems a pretty decent sort,as do all the BBMF bods,but then again I only know him to speak to through the Lincs Lanc Assoc and don't work for him. Mark Yeah I found them all chatty when I went round the hanger, here is inside the one getting rebuilt http://www.skonk.net/main.php?g2_view=core..._serialNumber=1 http://www.skonk.net/main.php?g2_view=core..._serialNumber=1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xlpainter Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 You could try the De Havilland Hertiage Centre (not a million miles from Oxfordshire -M40/M25).http://www.dehavillandmuseum.co.uk/index.html They are always looking for volunteer members to help restore aircraft to static condition -there's no airfield and the cost would be too high. I originally joined back in the early 1990's with no previous experience but I had guidence by other members who know what they were doing. I believe the museum now does training courses for restoration. I don't know what sort of certificate you get. I helped on the DH94 Moth Minor for about 6 years until I moved further away and other 'life' things took up my time but here's a bunch of photos showing how far I got. DH94 as shown in it's 'recovered' condition. Cowlings stripped and cleaned. Cowlings etch primed and fuselage rubbed down -in hindsight we should have recovered the fabric. Silver dope added. Fuselage primed and original 1950's raceing markings added. Black outlines and silver paint applied. Pushed outside for annual open day. Rear control surfaces ready for fabric. Wings still to be done. John Cunningham seemed quite pleased. (He test flew this type). He even signed a painting I did of the plane. (Sorry for poor quality -it's a scan of a bad picture) Cockpit before and after. This is about as far as I got with it. Over the past few years others have finished the project. Finally how it looked in the 1950's which is how we wanted to restore it back to. There are still many projects that need doing so if anyone wants to lend a hand get intouch with the museum. They are a friendly bunch! I just wish I had more time to get down there and do stuff. Cheers! hi i was one the members who painted that moth minor many years ago along with my brother in law it has now gone back to the owner i think it was painted in ford silver fox it was done from one black and white picture which was not that clear i now do some of the paint work when i get time on the southend vulcan XL426 which i great because it runs and moves under its own power what a noise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyT Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 (edited) hi i was one the members who painted that moth minor many years ago along with my brother in law it has now gone back to the owner i think it was painted in ford silver fox it was done from one black and white picture which was not that clear i now do some of the paint work when i get time on the southend vulcan XL426 which i great because it runs and moves under its own power what a noise Then you missed a bit, a bloody big black circle with a number 50 in it.......... Heheheheheeeee Edited March 31, 2009 by TonyT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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