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New Dambusters movie


Danny

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:sorry: if this is old news but I've just been browsing the internet for news on the long rumoured Dambusters remake that's meant to start filming this year and came across this article :yikes:

Dambusters link

 

Danny

Edited by Danny
References to the dog's name removed.
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What you're missing, Danny, is that the PC mob (please don't call them "Brigade," it gives them respectability) are professional "offendees," who can find insults where none are ever intended.

Edgar

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Sorry Danny, I didn't mean to cause alarm. My comment was partly tongue in cheek. You deliberately try not to cause offence by chosing a word you consider to be inoffensive, only to find someone strongly disagrees with the word you have chosen.

As for the name of the dog debate, yes it has been covered before and it got quite heated. Light the blue touchpaper and retire to a safe distance... :boom:

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Sorry to go off topic a tad but in exactly the same vein, I am currently playing a game on my Xbox where the action is set in Africa and as such the un-dead baddies are African. Unfortunately this fell foul of the PC gaggle who were outraged that you get to shoot people of dark skin which of course is racist. However, the previous game in this series was based in Spain and I noted that nobody complained about blasting Spaniards to bits :fraidnot:

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So if they're changing the name of the black oops sorry very dark coloured labrador then they'll have to change the breeched dam callsign as well. I'm sorry that's the whole film ruined right there , the black oops sorry very dark coloured lab's name is central to the film.

They should round these people up and put them on their own island and then surround it with man eating oops sorry let's be fair now people eating great lightlycoloured sharks. Maybe chuck in a few person eating crocodiles for good measure. :angrysoapbox.sml:

Nidge..................... what the effing h is that all about

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Lucky the dog wasn't called " green custard"......I gather the government dont like that now :-)

Anyway...how are these B-17s going to get from the USA to Germany and is there any point if the main baddies are killed in a car chase anyway ??

Edited by Paddy
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I can understand both sides...........however that is the nature of today's world...as the old saying goes ya gotta take the good with the bad. Today ya look at a bloke and 'e's liable to shoot ya, cause ya didn't look at 'im the right way. Better safe than sorry. It still doesn't help the authenticity of the movie. What's really strange, funny, and in someways disheartning is that here in sunny Socal....ya can't walk (in my case roll) down the street past some of the younger black kids and not hear that word in its original form or some veriation at least 4-5 times in a 10 min conversation. Yet let someone of another persuasion say it once and its WW4 and a half. It's times like that I'm glad I can claim my other heritages. Makes ya wish sometimes Judgement Day would begin and clean out the whole bloody mess.

I'll keep my deepest and innermost thoughts private no need to stir up a hornets' nest and have the bloody PC mob after me. My wheelie isn't fully armed yet.

Edited by Angels49
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We have gold and black 'goldfish' in our pond. I was thinking of calling the dark ones, 'IBM' 'Compaq' and 'Dell' cos they are all PC names!!!!!

David

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If the film is made (and I hope it is!), I think maybe only a very small minority of those going to see it would take the word in any other context than it being the name of a hero's dog.

Oh yeah, my black lab's name is Jasper ;)

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Nothing wrong with calling the dog, Nigger, in my opinion. It is a word of its time and the time was the 1940's.

Having worked with quite a few black people in my working life, they tend to call each other 'nigger' anyway. If you watch films featuring black actors, it's written into the script as a matter of course. For realism or basically because they damn well can and get away with it.

I don't think that many people would actually give a :shit: about the use of the word in the new film as most normal, non-anally retentive human beings know that it's the name of a f*****g dog! Also if they were really that worried about it, surely they would have had it removed from the original 50's film.

Jeez these people are so chuffing thick it frightens me. And we allow them to roam free in our society. PCism has gone too far now and if anyone starts to give me the 3rd degree about being a bit non-PC, well, get knotted (that's polite) and go very far away. I don't want to be infected by your stupidity.

Get a grip.

Edited by GoonerChris
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Its an interesting topic. When I was a boy the term we are referring to was used in a descriptive rather than a perjorative sense but growing up I realised that in "American" English it was used only as a term of abuse. So seeing paint commonly described as ****** brown just faded away to avoid causing offense. My parents always told me not to cause offence to others and be considerate so I don't have a problem with dropping the dogs name and replacing it with something else. It shouldn't be beyond the wit of the producers to find a name that refers to the dogs character without causing offense.

I doubt that the dog was called his name for any reason other than his colouring and that it was ever intended to cause offence to anyone in the 1940's. Given the cosmopolitan nature of Bomber Command I suspect that there was not that much prejudice around in any form except from a few individuals and BC was probably more akin to todays culture than that of the general public in the UK at the time.

You can also bear in mind the forces habit of calling someone by a nickname that reflects their origins without intending any derogatory prejudice. Lots of examples spring to mind. So i am sure the problem really comes from the increasing "Americanisation" of English which puts the dogs name in a different context to that of RAF Bomber Command WW2.

Having said that I can see that to change the name does distort the historical accuracy of the film - mind you did that ever bother film producers ??!!!!

What I am perhaps more intrigued about is that on reading a biography of Guy Gibson I found out that he was not perhaps exactly (remotely?) like Richard Todd. The bio I read rather had him come across as a chap for the ladies and a strong character you wouldn't want to get on the wrong side of. There was a suggestion that he had his favourites and could be quite brutal with subordinates if I recall - its a few years since I read the book now. I won't even get into the subject of how/why he got himself into a mosquito on his final flight but suggestions that his strong charcter played a part keep surfacing. Worth a read as, assuming its an accurate bio, you see the human frailities we all have ( yes I have had a tantrum with the odd ill fitting part but I will deny it if you tell anyone that ).

So will we see Gibson warts and all as a real person or will he gets the "Hollywood" treatment again? Thats maybe just as important as a dogs name and being PC ?

John

PS Douglas Bader wasn't like Kenneth More either but he and Gibson were still two of the greatest heroes the country has produced despite of (because of?) their own personal failings and I wish we had a few more of them about today.

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What I am perhaps more intrigued about is that on reading a biography of Guy Gibson I found out that he was not perhaps exactly (remotely?) like Richard Todd. The bio I read rather had him come across as a chap for the ladies and a strong character you wouldn't want to get on the wrong side of. There was a suggestion that he had his favourites and could be quite brutal with subordinates if I recall - its a few years since I read the book now. I won't even get into the subject of how/why he got himself into a mosquito on his final flight but suggestions that his strong charcter played a part keep surfacing. Worth a read as, assuming its an accurate bio, you see the human frailities we all have ( yes I have had a tantrum with the odd ill fitting part but I will deny it if you tell anyone that ).

So will we see Gibson warts and all as a real person or will he gets the "Hollywood" treatment again? Thats maybe just as important as a dogs name and being PC ?

John

I'll assume you've read Richard Morris' book on Gibson and, yes, he is a completely different animal to the one portayed on film. Hopefully we will see Gibson 'warts and all' and if Peter Jackson does with this material as he did with LOTR, then that should be what we will get. He likes to be as true to the original as possible.

Maybe this is why the film is taking so long to get going? PJ is having a barny with the money men as they want the Americans to have breached the dams and the Limeys/Australians/NZ'ers only flew spoof raids to draw away the thousands of nightfighters intent on shooting down 'our boys'?

Nothing would surprise me. :mental:

Hopefully it will be completed soon, then I can watch it and give my verdict.

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I'll assume you've read Richard Morris' book on Gibson and, yes, he is a completely different animal to the one portayed on film. Hopefully we will see Gibson 'warts and all' and if Peter Jackson does with this material as he did with LOTR, then that should be what we will get. He likes to be as true to the original as possible.

Maybe this is why the film is taking so long to get going? PJ is having a barny with the money men as they want the Americans to have breached the dams and the Limeys/Australians/NZ'ers only flew spoof raids to draw away the thousands of nightfighters intent on shooting down 'our boys'?

Nothing would surprise me. :mental:

Hopefully it will be completed soon, then I can watch it and give my verdict.

Yes

I am still wondering how Ben Affleck will fly his B 17 ( He's done the P40/B25 already nice to be so talented, fighter jock and bomber pilot and stud too) off the Hornet, take out Galland and the Abbeville boys, destroy the Dams and retun to the arms of Kate again while showing Chuck exactly how you break the sound barrier.

I am eating too much pop corn, too much pop corn !! :winkgrin:

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If the pc mob don't like it, the answer is simple- don't watch it!

Personally, I find gordon ramsey offensive everytime he opens his mouth. That's why I turn over each time he comes on

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ah back in them dim and distant days when Winston Hitler was fighting Adolf Churchill all over england invading belgium

and those brave lads fighting the battle of poland in their supermarine me 109s and messersmit spitfires

then america joined in over something about a pearl necklace , can understand the upset but not enough to nuke the finnish who were one of tham natural countries

anyway the scotts finaly surrendered at stallingrad after heavy opposition from the italians

" is that what you want ???? cos that's wat'll happen !! it all starts through one person getting what they want to change history for future generations ..

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Sadly, if they do use the original name for the dog and the breached dam, people will be outraged. There will be people who go to see the film just to be outraged so it would really be a pity to spoil it for them by using another name e.g. Trigger? Peter Jackson should just make the film, stick to the facts and keep his head down to avoid the brickbats he would receive. If he makes a good film the brickbats won't matter a damn (or a dam!).

As regards, Guy Gibson's character, unless the film is to be unfeasably long there won't really be time to explore it in detail. I've read the Morris book, and to be honest, Gibson is not someone I'd go for a pint with, and nor am I the sort he'd go for a pint with, but his courage is without question as is that of all the aircrew.

It's getting late and I'm rambling a bit. Just let's see the film when it's made and argue then.

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Yes, of course Guy Gibson was a very young man, in a very difficult and dangerous job. So being a nice guy and popular wouldn't help. You'll just kill more of your own folk.

To be the boss of an outfit planning to do that sort of near suicidal caper, you must have needed to be a bit of a b*****d. Even if it was an act, at first. In fact popularity is no part of being the leader of anything worthwile - a fact our ruddy politicians would do well to understand.

I wonder to what extent Gibson's uncompromising style was forced development in the circumstances, and how much was his natural behaviour? Nature or nurture? He was very young to have such responsibility. That has to weigh on you. Especially when life expectancy is so low.

In contrast the evidence suggests that Douglas Bader was a rather arrogant character from an early age who screwed up playing silly showing off games at low level - and never really learned his lesson. Very brave, very tough, very biased and thoroughly unpleasant to those who didn't please him. A friend who met him said he could be impressively charming - or bloody minded at the drop of a hat. No doubt useful in war on balance, though still an expensive liability in many ways, I think.

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