Help needed with Mosquito references

[Notdoneyet]

Can anyone help me find some photos of wartime Mosquitos fitted with an H2S radome on the rear fuselage behind the bomb bay as I would like to build one as a future project.

Many thanks for any help you can give,

Ian

[Jon Kunac-Tabinor]

Hi Ian - best i can find is this

http://www.rafweb.org/Markings/627Sqn2R.jpg

Intriguing, I'll see if i can find any more info.

Jonners (not being much use!)

[Notdoneyet]

Thanks Jon. That's an interesting profile as curiously it shows the H₂S radome actually on the bomb bay so now I'm (more) confused.

The 2 photos I have (in deHavilland Mosquito an Illustrated History) show the radome located aft of the bomb bay doors. Clearly this would be desirable on a Pathfinder a/c needing to drop target markers from its bomb bay.

Unfortunately the aforementioned photos are from a long range and do not enable either identifcation of the a/c or sizing of the radome.

Other H₂S equipped Mosquitos had the aerial in a nose radome which was even more bulbous (and ugly) than the AI "bullnose" installation in the NF variants. I've only found one photo thus far of this type of installation.

It is indeed an intriguing subject, will make a "different" Mosquito model methinks.

Cheers,

Ian

[Robert A]

Hi Ian,

Checking my refs, and apart from the pic's you already mention I can only find one picture (from a distance) of the aircraft you want. They are BXVI's belonging to 'C' flight of 627 Squadron and have the H2S dome under the rear fuselage below the roundel. I've tried my scanner but I just can't get a decent capture of the pic and when I tried to increase the size it just pixelates.

I can tell you that it's in the excellent Ian Thirsk book "De Havilland Mosquito and Illustrated History Vol 2" on page 101.

The blurb that goes with the picture states that 1st Mossie fitted with H2S was ML926/G and this was the 2nd production BXVI airframe.

The first operational use of H2S was in a modified B.IV series ii of 139 Squadron and the same squadron later installed H2S in some B.IX and B.XX airframes.

I also found that the majority of H2S fitted Mossies had it installed in the nose in a specially manufactured perspex radome, it would also appear that the majority of these went ot the USAAF as "mickey ships". I could only find one decent picture of one of these, (Thirsk book again, page 343) although my references are poor when it comes to USAAF stuff as I'm more interested in the RAF. Interestingly the Osprey book on Mosquito Photo Recce Units has a nice picture of the H2X (U.S. version of H2S) operators position in one of these a/c and an artists colour side view that may be of some use.

The link that Jonners gave you shows the positioning of the H2S dome on ML926/G, this aircraft had B.IV style flush bombbay doors not the bulged type usually seen on B.XVI's. Again there are a couple of good in flight shots of this in Thirsk's book on page 99.

Sorry I could scan the photo's but I would recomment the Ian Thirsk book and Stuart Howes Vol 1 to anyone with an interest in the Mosquito. They're available on Amazon. Heres a link

http://www.amazon.com/Havilland-Mosquito-S...d_bxgy_b_text_b

Hope this helps,

Bob

[Notdoneyet]

Many thanks Bob! I have both volumes of "de Havilland Mosquito an Illustrated History" and they are indeed excellent books for anyone interested in the Mosquito.

Thanks for pointing out the photos of ML926/G on p99 - they cleared up the confusion in my mind caused by the profile Jon linked to. The radome shown on the bomb bay of ML926/G was a trial installation for Oboe Repeata and not H₂S.

The search continues ........

Ian

(who used to live a few miles down the coast from you in Cullercoats)

[Nick Millman]

Can't find a clear photo but there are profile and plan schematics on page 68 of Modellers Datafile 1. Can't vouch for their accuracy.

[Bill B]

Try:

DH Mosquito Vol.1 Stuart Howe. Page 36 is photo of BXVI of the Central Bomber Establishment. PF498 DF-Y. Has aft mounted H2S. Good photo, although post war (just).

Also Paul Lucas Combat Colours No.5 page 36 has artwork for ML935 AZ-A of 627.

HTH,

Bill

[Paul Bradley]

This is not brilliant, but all I can find in my Mossie books:

From Mosquito at War by Chaz Bowyer.

[Notdoneyet]

Thanks guys! This is very interesting, please keep the info coming.

This is not brilliant, but all I can find in my Mossie books:

<Snip>

From Mosquito at War by Chaz Bowyer.

Paul,

I believe that is another photo of ML926/G with the trial installation of "Oboe Repeata" (if the info in "de Havilland Mosquito - An Illustrated History Vol2" is correct). The H₂S installation I am looking for has the radome below the fuselage roundel.

Cheers,

Ian

[Robert A]

Ian,

I checked some more ref's and those pictures of ML296 are usable for the H2S fitted aircraft. I've found one written ref, but no pics, which describe it as having a (standard?) H2S radome fitted to the bomb bay. For the oboe repeata there would be no need to change anything other than the internal equipment as the radome were made of plexiglass/"plastic" and therefore have no effect on the radio/radar wave propagation.

The pic on page 36 of DH mosqito vol1 is, from what I can tell, correct for operational a/c used by 627 Sqn. Looking a little deeper it would appear that these were pretty much the only operational pathfinder squadron to use this "official" installation and even then only in C flight. I can't find anything on the 139 Sqn a/c.

I'll keep digging and see if I can find some a/c serials and codes for 627 Sqn.

Wish I had moved over the water when I had the chance, although my sister may be moving to the Toronto area next year, so who knows I may still get the chance??

All the Best

Bob

[Jon Kunac-Tabinor]

hi again - here's a pic of the "mickey" BTO nose I found

http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/bww2/dh98/dh98-8.jpg

And thoug hits of nu relation to our Mossie H2S thread - here's a very interesting site with a few colour pics I've not seen before

http://www.34wing.co.uk/hmr.html

if we can dig up the info on these Mossies then I'm up for another Wooden Wonder!!

Jonners

[Notdoneyet]

Ian,

I checked some more ref's and those pictures of ML296 are usable for the H2S fitted aircraft. I've found one written ref, but no pics, which describe it as having a (standard?) H2S radome fitted to the bomb bay. For the oboe repeata there would be no need to change anything other than the internal equipment as the radome were made of plexiglass/"plastic" and therefore have no effect on the radio/radar wave propagation.

The pic on page 36 of DH mosqito vol1 is, from what I can tell, correct for operational a/c used by 627 Sqn. Looking a little deeper it would appear that these were pretty much the only operational pathfinder squadron to use this "official" installation and even then only in C flight. I can't find anything on the 139 Sqn a/c.

I'll keep digging and see if I can find some a/c serials and codes for 627 Sqn.

Wish I had moved over the water when I had the chance, although my sister may be moving to the Toronto area next year, so who knows I may still get the chance??

All the Best

Bob

Bob,

Thanks again. To my myopic eyes the "Oboe Repeata" radome on ML926 seems to be larger and more "pot bellied" than the "standard" H₂S radome. Yup, the pic on p 36 looks good to me also (that's the photo that triggered me off on this quest) - I'd like to build an operational wartime pathfinder H₂S equipped Mosquito, so if you can dig up some serials and codes for 627sqn (or 139sqn) that would be great.

hi again - here's a pic of the "mickey" BTO nose I found

http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/bww2/dh98/dh98-8.jpg

And thoug hits of nu relation to our Mossie H2S thread - here's a very interesting site with a few colour pics I've not seen before

http://www.34wing.co.uk/hmr.html

if we can dig up the info on these Mossies then I'm up for another Wooden Wonder!!

Jonners

Jon, thanks for those links. The airwar.ru photo is the same as one published in "Mosquito the Illustrated History Vol 2" - definately the ugliest Mossie nose until the extended glazed Target Tug monstrosity!! That 34 Wing site is great - I have a Spitfire PRXI partly started, and the bits for a Mosquito PRXVI that may well end up as one of the a/c featured there.

Thanks for all the input guys. Keep it coming,

Ian

[timbo33]

Ian,

I've scoured my references, including the Warpaint Special and 'Mosquito the Wooden Wonder' by Edward Bishop and not a single photo or colour plate of a Mossie with an H2S bulge, never mind aft of the bomb bay....

[dambuster]

Thanks again. To my myopic eyes the "Oboe Repeata" radome on ML926 seems to be larger and more "pot bellied" than the "standard" H₂S radome. Yup, the pic on p 36 looks good to me also (that's the photo that triggered me off on this quest) - I'd like to build an operational wartime pathfinder H₂S equipped Mosquito, so if you can dig up some serials and codes for 627sqn (or 139sqn) that would be great.

The radome on ML926 is definitely an Oboe repeater. The shape is deeper than H2S as it contains two antenna, one facing forward, one facing aft.

Peter

[Robert A]

Hi Ian,

Not having much luck at present with serial/code letter tie ups, mainly because my reference is all geared towards PR or Elint aircraft. Will keep looking and try bugging some of the lads who come into Kitbox on Saturday( that probably meant the Wooksta!! as his reference stuff is a bit broader than mine).

Will let you know as soon as I get something.

Bob

[The wooksta V2.0]

I have to be honest and say I can't recall seeing any photos of the H2S equipped aircraft in any of my books, but then I haven't been looking for them specifically!

The only one that springs to mind is a post war example as a profile view in the Richard Caruana Warpaint on the Mosquito, and even then it's a post war aircraft, albeit in a very fetching scheme of Medium Sea Grey uppers and black underneath with type C roundels.

I'll have a look through me books and see what I can find later.

One thing I did notice was that the H2S radome from the Airfix Lanc is a bit big for a Mosquito.

[Test Graham]

Are we sure that this aft radome is H2S? It was, I understood, rather a heavy installaton, so having it that far aft may not have been a good idea.

[The wooksta V2.0]

Dug through most of me Mossie books but found very little, mainly the same photos of ML926/G. However...

De Havilland Mosquito: An Illustrated History Vol.1 has one photo, page 36. PF498 coded DF-Y. Joined 627 Sqn in August 1945 but transferred to the Bomber Development Unit at Feltwell a month later. Later went to 139 and 109 Sqns. Photo shows the aircraft with the Central Bomber Establishment at Marham. Pretty sure this is the aircraft that I mentioned earlier as a subject of a colour profile in the Caruana Warpaint.

Wings of Fame Vol 18 has a nice article on Mossies and I've found one of the aircraft you're after, again post war. Coded TA651 and on overall Aluminium Dope with type C roundels. BXVI but no bulged bomb bay and flown by the Central Bomber Establishment. Page 62. Same photo in Phillip J Birtles' Mosquito: The Illustrated`History

Jackpot! Combat Colours No. 5 by Paul Lucas. Mosquito Reconnaisance and Bombers. Page 36. Colour profile of Mosquito BXVI ML935 AZ-A (with bar above) of 627 Sqn, 1945. Standard Mosquito day bomber scheme. Codes red with yellow outlines and black spinners. No bulged bomb bay and profile has the canopy with blisters rather than the bulged canopy of the B.XVI. No photo, but Paul Lucas is a pretty diligent researcher.

Hope that's of some use!

[Robert A]

Wooksta,

You are a star!! Cheers mate, that's a coffee I owe you, sorry, tea I forgot you don't drink that foreign muck

Graham,

You're right that H2S is a heavy piece of kit, however, onlythe scanner, scanner motor and dome would be fitted that far back, the rest of the gubbins is fitted further forward, close to the wing, forward of the rear access hatch (an educated guess based on the fact that this is where the US a/c had it fitted) and the cathode ray tube/display unit was most likely in the cockpit for the observers use.

Bob

[Test Graham]

Thanks Robert. I suspect you won't have the bulged bombbay and the H2S because of interference. The Halifax was also proposed with a bulged bombbay, which was never adopted as such (the shape reappeared as the freight pannier) and I suspect that part of the reason was the H2S fit.

I wondered why the H2S couldn't be faired into the front of the bulge to reduce drag, so I asked one of the Warton radar experts why wartime bombers such as the Halifax didn't have the H2S forward, as on the V-bombers. His answer was the the propellors would interfere. Interference with the aircraft structure is a perrenial constraint on radars.

[Notdoneyet]

Wooksta,

As Bob has said, you are indeed a star!!! Many thanks, that was just what I was after

Bob, Peter, timbo, Jon, Graham,

Many thanks to you for taking the time to search through your reference material to help answer my query.

Cheers,

Ian

(off to fondle some Mosquito parts in the stash )

[The wooksta V2.0]

No problem at all. Glad to hear my references are coming in useful!

The radome from an Airfix Lanc looks a bit too big but may be okay after a bit of cutting down (I'm assuming you're doing tis in 72nd?). Alternately, the H2S radome from a Matchbox Lanc could be better.

Edited January 22, 2009 by The wooksta V2.0

[Notdoneyet]

No problem at all. Glad to hear my references are coming in useful!

The radome from an Airfix Lanc looks a bit too big but may be okay after a bit of cutting down (I'm assuming you're doing tis in 72nd?). Alternately, the H2S radome from a Matchbox Lanc could be better.

It'll be in 1/48, either a Tamiya BIV with Paragon 2 Stage Merlin conversion or an Airfix BXVI. It all depends whether I decide to build a PR XVI with the Tamiya/Paragon bits. Either way I'll be scratch building (or should that be Milliputting?) the radome.

Many thanks again,

Ian

[barneybolac]

 

 

[larumivi1951]

Mosquito B.XVI, ML926:

Rudolph