Nick McV Posted September 22 Posted September 22 (edited) Well, as my mojo scarpered in the new year and hasn't been since, I thought I might pay a visit to BM to find some inspiration/motivation. I have at least four builds at various stages of completion hiding away in plastic boxes, but think maybe the thing to do is get stuck into a box fresh kit. To my chagrin a number of excellent GB's have come and gone in the course of the year so far, but I thought if I stick my head above the proverbial parapet with this one I'll feel honour-bound to at least make a start! I don't feel I'm time-rich just at the moment but will certainly put aside a few hours a week to try to get back into it. So this is just a placemarker just for the moment, this evening I'll decide which of the two 1/48 scale Hurri Mk I's I have in my stash will get the GB treatment (I know, I know, "build 'em both!"). It'll be either the Airfix Mk I Trop, or Hasegawa's offering in Finnish livery. I'll let you know, and tweak this thread accordingly. In the meantime I'm going to bring myself up to speed on other builds in this GB. Cheers Nick Edited Thursday at 08:31 AM by Nick McV 8
Troy Smith Posted September 22 Posted September 22 15 minutes ago, Nick McV said: Well, as my mojo scarpered in the new year and hasn't been since, I thought I might pay a visit to BM to find some inspiration/motivation. I have at least four builds at various stages of completion hiding away in plastic boxes, but think maybe the thing to do is get stuck into a box fresh kit. I know the feeling. Perhaps this will be of use in helping not hitting those mojo blocks by some potential problems 15 minutes ago, Nick McV said: It'll be either the Airfix Mk I Trop, The new tool Airfix kits, what the box says, have all the same plastic, so can be done as most mid production Mk.I's, trop or Sea Hurricane IB if you have decals. I just posted this in the GB chat re the new tool Airfix... Another case of Airfix not being Tamiya. Kits designed to a very high specification CAD, then with pictorial instructions, so no stressing where you really need to get it right, and not the best plastic and moulding. This can cause a chain of small misalignments leading to a big misalignment with bigger bits... Same issue affects their new tool Spitfire Vb/ and Mk.I kits. Small problems come from missed mould lines, sprue nibs or even paint, older kits usually have some 'give' and the new ones don't. One trend that just looks like a problem is the cockpit assembled on wing and fitted into fuselage as well. Certainly on the 72nd fabric wing Mk.I using the upper and lower wings to jig the front spar/wheel well front is essential, the 48th has the assembly of the wheel well/spars/cockpit framework, and not getting this dead on will cause issues. Again, use upper/lower wings to jig this to get it all square and true, and be scrupulous on clean up. Ironically treating it more like a limited run kit... Oh, either prop fits either spinner.... I've seen a few wrong blade/spinner builds, not helped by the common fitting of Canadian props on warbirds. 15 minutes ago, Nick McV said: or Hasegawa's offering in Finnish livery. hmm. Be aware that Hasegawa decals are not always great, more specifically the use of an ivory white. More in detail, the Finnish Mk.I's were N serial Hawker built, a 2 or 3 with fabric wings. All had the De Havilland Spitfire spinner (not in the Hase kit) no 2nd starboard hatch, which is tricky to fill and you might want to ignore, 5 spoke wheels, but you can just drill the centres out of the Hase wheels and use 5 spoke Spitfire hubs, Eduard Spitfire kits usually have various hubs, and a pole aerial, which is just a pole. Note that with some adjustments you can fit a leftover Airfix belly panel to the Hase fuselage to deal with the infamous break in the fabric, though it does show the difference in fabric treatments. It is a faff though, if you just use the Hase bits, best to fill and sand smooth, the fabric lines don't line up and it's a bit of a mess, but it is underneath so it's not visible under normal viewing. And the Hase kit has generic fuselage, with trop vents below the cockpit which are not there on the Finnish examples I think OOB though the Hase is an easier build than the Airfix, though both require care, in the Hase case with the separate nose. Both kits are being built on here so have a read and see the how they have been dealt with. GBs are also good for mojo as people look in and comment which can keep you rolling along. HTH 3 1
Wings unlevel Posted September 22 Posted September 22 Welcome to the build, Nick. This is a safe space for the mojo-challenged! However much or little you get done is less important than taking part and making a start. The modelling journey is as rewarding as the destination in my experience. Looking forward to seeing what you decide to build. 1
Nick McV Posted September 22 Author Posted September 22 (edited) 54 minutes ago, Troy Smith said: The new tool Airfix kits, what the box says, have all the same plastic, so can be done as most mid production Mk.I's, trop or Sea Hurricane IB if you have decals. That's good to know. I was just scrolling through decal options for Mk I Trops on Hannants and there isn't that much out there (there's a nice desert scheme OOB but I don't fancy those squiggles on the leading edges of the wings). Seems I will have options! And thanks for the other info. 54 minutes ago, Troy Smith said: Be aware that Hasegawa decals are not always great, more specifically the use of an ivory white. I'm aware of Hasegawa's issues with the whites on decal sheets and generally avoid their kits like the plague for this reason, but I seem to remember this one being available for a relative song so went for it. I don't think the decals in my kit really aren't that bad, last time I looked at them anyway, I left them out in the sunshine for a while ages ago. If I'm wrong and they are nasty, there are aftermarket sheets out there. I like the black/green upper surfaces on the Finnish Hurris, don't hate me for this but I find the look of the BoB era brown/green RAF scheme just a wee bit, er, boring on a Hurricane! Regarding accuracy I'm not going to drag myself over hot coals with this one, but will certainly have a look at other builds to avoid any howlers. 53 minutes ago, Wings unlevel said: However much or little you get done is less important than taking part and making a start. That, exactly. Especially the bit about making a start! Cheers. Edited September 22 by Nick McV 5
Troy Smith Posted September 22 Posted September 22 50 minutes ago, Nick McV said: BoB era brown/green RAF scheme just a wee bit, er, boring on a Hurricane! hmm. There are not that many other options. Desert, or ones in Day Fighter Scheme. This has info on some desert schemes https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235158910-hurricane-colour-query/ The brightest are silver painted ones of the Rhodesian Air Training Group (RATG) https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235022459-rhodesian-hurricane-v6787/ this one AG244 There is a pic of the other side in Hurricane at War there is a Mk.II warbird in this scheme Hawker Hurricane AG244 air show Dittingen Switzerland 2018 by roli_b, on Flickr Just needs a serial and some careful masking, maybe some thin black decal stripes Note also the only Australian Hurricane in the link there is the early Malta ones https://armahobbynews.pl/en/blog/2019/04/11/hurricane-p3731-j-in-defence-of-malta-70021/ desert uppers, possibly Light Earth/Dark Earth w/ Black White split undersides, you just need the white J and serial. Worth having a look at what Arma Hobby have in their 72nd Mk.I boxings, they have done some neat schemes. 1 hour ago, Nick McV said: I'm aware of Hasegawa's issues with the whites on decal sheets and generally avoid their kits like the plague for this reason, but I seem to remember this one being available for a relative song so went for it. I don't think the decals in my kit really aren't that bad, last time I looked at them anyway, I left them out in the sunshine for a while ages ago. They are printed like this. It maybe that they look 'whiter' when applied, note Hase decals, like Tamiya are thick, but that is because they use a heat activated glue that needs hot hot water https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235008098-dealing-with-thick-decals-ie-tamiya/ "The best way to get all Japanese decals ( Fujimi, Hasegawa, Tamiya etc)to work as they're supposed to is use hot water and the correct setting solutions. You'll need a bottle each of Gunze Mr Setter and Mr Softer. Micro sol and others won't work as they're formulated differently. Do not use Gunze on Microscale or Cartograf decals as it will chew right through them. Dip the decal in hot water, it doesn't need to be boiling but it does need to be fairly hot. The temperature of a drinkable tea will do. The glue is heat activated and is what makes up most of the thickness. If you dip it in cold water you'll spend the rest of the day waiting and cursing. Lay down some Mr Setter, this is in the blue bottle. It acts as an additional glue. Slide the decal onto it and into postion and leave it alone. The decal should wrinkle a little. Give it 10 mins or so and go over the decal with a brush with a little Mr Softer (green bottle) on it. Use sparingly as it is extremely hot. Too much and it will damage the paint, especially the weaker acrylics. The decal will now wrinkle a lot. Do not touch it as it is almost liquified at this point. Once it is dry it will have smoothed out and will lay down beautifully over just about any raised or recessed detail you care to think of. Used properly it is probably the best conforming decal process in the industry. Used incorrectly and you'll be just another guy complaining about crap Japanese decals." HTH 2
Nick McV Posted September 23 Author Posted September 23 15 hours ago, Troy Smith said: The brightest are silver painted ones of the Rhodesian Air Training Group (RATG) The Airfix kit actually has a silver RATG Hurri as a decal option, albeit without the fetching red stripe: Anyhoo, I've decided to go for the Finnish option with the Hasegawa kit. 15 hours ago, Troy Smith said: "The best way to get all Japanese decals ( Fujimi, Hasegawa, Tamiya etc)to work as they're supposed to is use hot water and the correct setting solutions. You'll need a bottle each of Gunze Mr Setter and Mr Softer. Micro sol and others won't work as they're formulated differently. Do not use Gunze on Microscale or Cartograf decals as it will chew right through them. Dip the decal in hot water, it doesn't need to be boiling but it does need to be fairly hot. The temperature of a drinkable tea will do. The glue is heat activated and is what makes up most of the thickness. If you dip it in cold water you'll spend the rest of the day waiting and cursing. Lay down some Mr Setter, this is in the blue bottle. It acts as an additional glue. Slide the decal onto it and into postion and leave it alone. The decal should wrinkle a little. Give it 10 mins or so and go over the decal with a brush with a little Mr Softer (green bottle) on it. Use sparingly as it is extremely hot. Too much and it will damage the paint, especially the weaker acrylics. The decal will now wrinkle a lot. Do not touch it as it is almost liquified at this point. Once it is dry it will have smoothed out and will lay down beautifully over just about any raised or recessed detail you care to think of. Used properly it is probably the best conforming decal process in the industry. Used incorrectly and you'll be just another guy complaining about crap Japanese decals." I dug the decals out of the box last night and yes, they are rather on the creamy side. It includes blank (sort of) white circles without the, er, "unfortunate" insignia, maybe I'll experiment with one of those and hottish water to see how it comes up before going aftermarket. 17 hours ago, Troy Smith said: More in detail, the Finnish Mk.I's were N serial Hawker built, a 2 or 3 with fabric wings. All had the De Havilland Spitfire spinner (not in the Hase kit) no 2nd starboard hatch, which is tricky to fill and you might want to ignore, 5 spoke wheels, but you can just drill the centres out of the Hase wheels and use 5 spoke Spitfire hubs, Eduard Spitfire kits usually have various hubs, and a pole aerial, which is just a pole. I think I have a spare Spitfire DH spinner somewhere. The kit actually has two spinners, one quite short and conical (the one to use, it says) and a peculiarly elongated one. Do my eyes deceive me, or was the Spit spinner rather oversized for the nose of the Hurricane it was mounted on? Would it be oversimplistic to just use some 5-spoke Spitfire wheels/tyres, or would the two types have different size tyres? I think the pole-type radio mast is present and correct. Any, thanks for your comprehensive and knowledgeable feedback. With a bit of luck and a following wind I'll make a start on this tonight, but I have a second grandson very imminent (several days overdue, in fact), so I'm sort of "on call"! Cheers 3
Zephyr91 Posted September 23 Posted September 23 1 hour ago, Nick McV said: Do my eyes deceive me, or was the Spit spinner rather oversized for the nose of the Hurricane it was mounted on? You are not deceived! 😁 Always nice to get stuff right, I find!! Troy has done a lot of notes about these. Hope the model continues, but if grandson arrives I think I might be a bit distracted in your place! Best wishes on both ventures! Rob 1 1 1
Wings unlevel Posted September 23 Posted September 23 1 hour ago, Nick McV said: Anyhoo, I've decided to go for the Finnish option with the Hasegawa kit. Nice choice, the Finnish camouflage colours work really well on the Hurricane. Incidentally, there is an excellent walk around post of a Finnish Air Force museum Hurricane here on BM: 1 hour ago, Nick McV said: With a bit of luck and a following wind I'll make a start on this tonight, but I have a second grandson very imminent (several days overdue, in fact), so I'm sort of "on call"! Making a start is exciting, meeting the new grandchild much more so! Good luck to all involved! 1 1
Nick McV Posted September 23 Author Posted September 23 2 hours ago, Wings unlevel said: Incidentally, there is an excellent walk around post of a Finnish Air Force museum Hurricane here on BM: Thanks, actually I'd already come across a hi-def video walkaround on YouTube, looks like a pretty dependable bit of source material to me. Interesting is the apparent complete absence of stencils on this airframe. Decalling should be a relatively speedy job then. Still no sign of the little guy, at least not that the daughter has told me! 3 hours ago, Zephyr91 said: Always nice to get stuff right, I find!! I've just been scrolling through Hannants for a resin DH spinner and some five-spoke wheels. This visit may turn out to be ruinously expensive. You know how it is with the big "H", in for a penny, in for thirty quid... 2
Zephyr91 Posted September 23 Posted September 23 3 hours ago, Nick McV said: ou know how it is with the big "H", in for a penny, in for thirty quid... Well, it would be wasteful to pay postage on separate smaller batches of items ...... 2
Nick McV Posted September 24 Author Posted September 24 Morning all, Here's the obligatory sprue shot (the wings are being shy), I'm sure this one will have been aired many times on these pages by now. I did a bit of snipping and trimming last night to get started. I had thought to go with some prepainted etch for the cockpit but there is no open canopy option so it won't be that visible and the moulding is pretty well detailed as is, I'll just have to knock up some seatbelts. In fact I was in danger of getting click-happy with the aftermarket, at one point my basket on Hannants added up to more than three times what I paid for the kit which is just a bit silly, and that's not even including an Eduard canopy mask which I'm unable to find anywhere, in this country at least (they have the plastic Montex type but I'm not a fan of those). It's likely that I'll go with aftermarket decals to address the issue of the "Hasegawa white", and I'll probably pick up some resin 5-spoke wheels and exhaust stacks. I've found what I'm pretty sure is a Spitfire De Havilland spinner in the spares box. 15 hours ago, Zephyr91 said: Well, it would be wasteful to pay postage on separate smaller batches of items ...... Yeah, this is how they get you, but at least they've dropped their free postage threshold to a "mere" fifty quid! Grandson number two is still keeping us waiting! 6
Wings unlevel Posted September 24 Posted September 24 1 hour ago, Nick McV said: was in danger of getting click-happy with the aftermarket, at one point my basket on Hannants added up to more than three times what I paid for the kit We’ve all been there! Sounds like you’re getting well sorted for a fantastic build. 2
Troy Smith Posted September 24 Posted September 24 On 23/09/2025 at 08:51, Nick McV said: The kit actually has two spinners, one quite short and conical (the one to use, it says) DH Hurricane. maybe a touch small, though the Airfix in looks a little long On 23/09/2025 at 08:51, Nick McV said: and a peculiarly elongated one. One of the Hurricane specfic Rotol units, looks closest to the CM/1 type. This was fitted to late Mk.I's On 23/09/2025 at 08:51, Nick McV said: Do my eyes deceive me, or was the Spit spinner rather oversized for the nose of the Hurricane it was mounted on? Correct. Spitfire nose ring was larger, the spinners made for Spitfires that were then used i Hurricanes look awkward. The blunt Rotol (ES/6) which is the type associated with the BoB is also oversized. this is a comparison shot between the two types N2358 has the Spitfire DH unit, N2479 has the Hurricane DH unit. As can be seen the Spitfire DH is wider and blunter, and overhangs the nose ring, the Hurricane DH is more pointed and is correct diameter. And here's a fuller rundown https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234980181-hawker-hurricane-propellers-and-spinners-a-modellers-guide/ On 23/09/2025 at 13:43, Nick McV said: a resin DH spinner 5 hours ago, Nick McV said: I've found what I'm pretty sure is a Spitfire De Havilland spinner in the spares box. It's a very common alternate part. The old tool 1/48 Airfix Hurricane also had this spinner if you have one of those. On 23/09/2025 at 08:51, Nick McV said: Would it be oversimplistic to just use some 5-spoke Spitfire wheels/tyres, or would the two types have different size tyres? Yes. Same hub, larger tyre on Hurricane. If you have some 5 spoke Spitfire hubs, there are 3 types in every Eduard Merlin 60 series Spitfire kit, you can use those, drill out the Hase hubs with a 6 mm or 1/4in drill bit, or finish with that size at least. The Hase hubs are too small BTW. You can also upgrade the 4 spoke with the same trick. If you go down 5 spoke AM route, you can use the Airfix 4 spoke with the Hase wheels, the Airfix tyres are too big... try fitting through the kit UC opening.... Best wishes on grandson #2 cheers T 1 1
Nick McV Posted September 24 Author Posted September 24 (edited) I've settled on the airframe I'm going to build, which carries serial number HC-452, "black 2". A metal-winged Hurri, HC-452 was one of a dozen purchased by Finland (some with metal wings, some with fabric) in February 1940, of which 10 made it as far as Finland. They weren't terribly successful, chalking up a total of 5½ kills between them (of which 2½ went to HC-452 with Lentolaivue 26, 30, 32) before they all fell out of service, as much for lack of replacement parts as combat. HC-452 was the regular mount of Pilot Officer Esko Ruotsila. First up, praise be! The old girl is still with us, and in fine shape! Here she is at the Finnish Air Force Museum in Tikkakoski, now bearing the number "black 5" on a noticeably contrasting rudder, more on that in a minute: There is an excellent high-definition walkaround here that will be enormously helpful from the point of view of accuracy (there are some bits that will need fettling off the wings and nose, for one thing.) I will be using SBS's decal sheet as I don't fancy the Hasegawa originals. The Hase instructions show this airframe like this: The callouts say that it can be painted either in the standard RAF dark green/dark earth over sky scheme, or in the Finnish olive green/black over blue camouflage the airframe was repainted in. There's a certain amount of hedging of bets here as with that style of the number two (square at the bottom left hand corner rather than pointy) and the small serial number it would have still been in RAF livery (which in any case didn't feature sky on this kite - see below) ; also the number two would have had a light blue border, not white, which isn't catered for by the Hase decal sheet. The kit's box art (and the other decal scheme) depicts HC-451 which I believe was a fabric-winged Hurri, therefore as I understand it not buildable from this kit. I'm going to be using SBS's decal sheet, which presents HC-452 in two guises, of which I'll be going for the lower one: Note the different style of the two number 2's, and the light blue outline on the upper one. Here's a potted history of HC-452's paint jobs: She was delivered in the standard RAF scheme of the time, dark green/dark earth over aluminium dope underside with the wings in one half black the other white. In Finland it was painted up with its number 2 and a small black serial number (initially HU452, later HC452), as well as at some point yellow underside wingtips and fuselage band (probably at some point after the application of the s/n's - see pic below of HU460, one of our girl's siblings). This is HU452 also, I'd put money on this being when she arrived in Finland after being ferried from Britain - no Finnish national insignia (possibly redacted photo?) or yellow markings at all, and she looks pretty shiny and new. A picture of HU453 in similar format also exists. The yellow nose appears to have come later still. At some point she was repainted with the Finnish scheme of olive green/black over blue, and given a larger serial number, HC-452, now with the "-". There is a picture without the "2" which I feel was taken immediately after the repaint - she certainly looks very smart: And here with the number 2 added in the new pointier style with white outline: Unfortunately she had a mishap: (EDIT: I've just realised that this may be a camouflaged Hurricane, rather than a crashed one! ) At some point she was given a replacement rudder cannibalised from another airframe, HC-455, which retained its RAF colours and the light-blue border to its number 5: And that's how we find her today! She made her last flight on 26th July 1943, having logged 208 flying hours, the most of any Hurricane in Finnish service. Well, that was a dive down a rabbit hole and no mistake. Better crack on with building the thing now. Cheers Nick Edited September 24 by Nick McV 5 1
Troy Smith Posted September 24 Posted September 24 3 hours ago, Nick McV said: Here's a potted history of HC-452's paint jobs: She was delivered in the standard RAF scheme of the time, dark green/dark earth over aluminium dope underside with the wings in one half black the other white. In Finland it was painted up with its number 2 and a small black serial number (initially HU452, later HC452), as well as at some point yellow underside wingtips and fuselage band (probably at some point after the application of the s/n's - see pic below of HU460, one of our girl's siblings). Yellow was the Axis eastern front theatre marking, so after June 1941, which is what the Finns call the continuation war, after the 39/40 winter war. 3 hours ago, Nick McV said: This is HU452 also, I'd put money on this being when she arrived in Finland after being ferried from Britain - no Finnish national insignia (possibly redacted photo?) or yellow markings at all, and she looks pretty shiny and new. A picture of HU453 in similar format also exists. the Hakristi were covered for delivery. 3 hours ago, Nick McV said: The yellow nose appears to have come later still. 3 hours ago, Nick McV said: At some point she was repainted with the Finnish scheme of olive green/black over blue, and given a larger serial number, HC-452, now with the "-". There is a picture without the "2" which I feel was taken immediately after the repaint - she certainly looks very smart: the Finnish colours or warpaint = sotamaalaus [sota = war, maalaus = paint] Done when overhauled at Tampere, from the photo winter 41/42? colours? The black is black, Olive Green is similar to MAP Slate Grey, maybe a touch greener, the Light Blue is Vaaleen sininen DN-vari, which is RLM 65, the Finns got German paint for Do-17 and Ju-88 In this thread @Kari Lumppio https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/74566-finnish-b109s-local-repaints/#elControls_818352_menu "The matt light blue paint ("DN-blue" etc.) was always German-made Ikarol 291/65 -paint. The 65 pointed to RLM shade as there was no Finnish-made light blue paint sample to give for Warnecke & Böhm - the German paint manufacturer. Other paints - colours - ordered from them were coded with alfabets: Ikarol 291½/A etc. Light blue Ikarol 291/65 was used on all surfaces: fabric, wood and metal(s). Already during the war, late Summer 1944 Finns were running out the thinner used for Ikarol paints. It seems thinner was integral part of the Ikarol paint system. So much so that one could even speak of two component paints. In and after 1944 the lack of thinner made Ikarol paints unusable as the war between Finland and Germany after September 1944 dried up the supplies to Finland." also well worth a read https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235157551-finnish-hurricanes-first-batch-early-1940/ "Finnish Hurricanes received Finnish national markings in Britain. The fuselage markings were correct but those painted on the wings were not. In a great haste a camouflage and marking drawing was received from Bristol aircraft Factory, as they had built Blenheims for the Finnish Air Force. A mistake was made when scaling down the wing national insignia. Therefore Finnish Hurricanes initially carried too "thin" blue swastikas on wings. InSale72 decals have correct "early" markings on their sheets (both in 1/72 and 1/48 scales)." HTH 3 3
Nick McV Posted September 24 Author Posted September 24 Blimey. If you've got a blank, @Troy Smith is there to fill it. Many thanks, I'll have a peruse of this lot when I have 5 minutes. 1
Wings unlevel Posted September 24 Posted September 24 6 hours ago, Nick McV said: that was a dive down a rabbit hole and no mistake One of the best parts of the hobby, I reckon. That’s a great subject choice and I enjoyed reading its history. Should make for a fantastic build. 45 minutes ago, Nick McV said: Blimey. If you've got a blank, @Troy Smith is there to fill it. He’s a gem! 1
Romeo Alpha Yankee Posted September 25 Posted September 25 Thanks for making me aware of your thread Nick, it has been very informative, especially with Troy's input. I shall be watching. I'll be doing the later markings for 460 on my build. 1
Troy Smith Posted September 25 Posted September 25 3 hours ago, Nick McV said: Many thanks, I'll have a peruse of this lot when I have 5 minutes. My pleasure. Forgot to say, a great selection of pics and careful observations, excellent analysis, but as not only am I partial to Hurricanes, but also have a long time interest in the Suomen Ilmavoimat, so it's not very difficult to 'fill in the blanks' as I can see what they are. One point on the colour list, I was sent this by the Finnish AF museum about 15 years ago, I now know the FS595 are closest matches in FS595.... I note looking again they list Humbrol 116 as Olive Green, which is quite a bright green. (it was their take on the lighter green in the US 3 tone Vietnam scheme) The MAP Slate Grey is because that is the FS595 'match' IIRC In the time since I have ended up with an FS595 deck so I should have a check at some point The Finnish use of the swastika is from the Swedish Von Rosen family crest, who gave money to the nascent Finnish airforce in the 1920's after independence, nothing to do with the nazi use, the Latvians used a red version as their airforce symbol as well. Finland is perhaps the one place in Europe that has similar popular culture about WW2 to the UK, they are very proud of their resistance and war memorials have Hakristi and crosses on them still, and I think most towns have a Mannehiem Katu (street) after their wartime leader. I forgot to say this as I was somewhat grumpy, mostly as I have chalazion or meiobium cyst... which at the moment means if I shut my left eye its like looking through frosted glass.... Not painful but very annoying and end up shutting affected eye. If you are looking at AM bits for the Hase kit I can suggest some tweaks... I spent some time playing around with a scrap one I was sent working out fixes, most are quite easy. Be interesting to see what the SBS decals look like, I have the Inscale sheet and the Camouflage and Decals set, but I ever done a colour check, Inscale are rated, not looked at the other ones for the blue they use... Funny searching up the FS595 I ran across a post on VVS colours I made 15 years ago on ARC forum... Interesting thread on VVS colours. HTH 1
Nick McV Posted September 25 Author Posted September 25 (edited) 6 hours ago, Troy Smith said: Forgot to say, a great selection of pics and careful observations, Thank you, Troy, from one of the BM "big guns" this means a lot! 6 hours ago, Troy Smith said: I forgot to say this as I was somewhat grumpy, mostly as I have chalazion or meiobium cyst... which at the moment means if I shut my left eye its like looking through frosted glass.... Not painful but very annoying and end up shutting affected eye. This sounds like aggro, hope it's sorted soon. 6 hours ago, Troy Smith said: The Finnish use of the swastika is from the Swedish Von Rosen family crest, who gave money to the nascent Finnish airforce in the 1920's after independence, nothing to do with the nazi use, the Latvians used a red version as their airforce symbol as well. Finland is perhaps the one place in Europe that has similar popular culture about WW2 to the UK, they are very proud of their resistance and war memorials have Hakristi and crosses on them still, and I think most towns have a Mannehiem Katu (street) after their wartime leader. That's interesting, I wondered where that came from. I'm aware that its use was nothing to do with Nazism, of course, but did a bit of reading up and was surprised to find just how widely it crops up in the modern age. It makes sense that they would have covered the markings for the ferry flight, to avoid any unfortunate cases of misidentification! One can only wonder what the workmen at the Blenheim aircraft factory thought when they were instructed to paint swastikas on British planes! I visited Finland many times with work back in the day, splendid country and people. Regarding the colours, I wondered if the resemblance between Finnish camo schemes and Soviet ones of the same period was intentional or coincidental. For example I have this Il-2 in the stash, which has callouts using Revell paints (naturally). On HC-452 there's a softness to the edges of the camo demarcations that I thought I'd have a go at with rattlecans as I don't have an airbrush, and my local Hobbycraft stocks Revell paints: My remaining question mark is whether to include the white kill markings on the tailfin... clearly visible on HC-452 now and also in the period photograph below. The question is: were they already there before the "number 5" rudder was fitted? Answers on a postcard... 11 hours ago, Wings unlevel said: One of the best parts of the hobby, I reckon. You're not wrong. It seems like every build I do I get lost in the detective work, and in the internet age we have so much information (and misinformation!) at our fingertips. There's something immensely satisfying in filling in the blanks with thoughtful conjecture (it doesn't do any harm to have helpful experts like Mr @Troy Smith around, of course!). My Bf-109 Franz von Werra build went the same way, link at the bottom of this post if you're interested! Still no grandson! Cheers Nick Edited September 25 by Nick McV 1
Zephyr91 Posted September 25 Posted September 25 11 hours ago, Nick McV said: t seems like every build I do I get lost in the detective work, I love this aspect too. 11 hours ago, Nick McV said: Still no grandson! Obviously waiting until the most inconvenient time! Hope everything goes smoothly. Rob 1 1
Wings unlevel Posted September 25 Posted September 25 12 hours ago, Nick McV said: Still no grandson! Knows his own mind, clearly! 😂 1
Andwil Posted September 25 Posted September 25 2 hours ago, Wings unlevel said: Knows his own mind, clearly! 😂 Given the state of the world at present I fully understand his reluctance. AW 1 1
Nick McV Posted September 26 Author Posted September 26 (edited) 11 hours ago, Wings unlevel said: Knows his own mind, clearly! 😂 His mum's arrival was late and dramatic. Apple/tree and all that. I did a bit of priming last night which certainly doesn't merit photography, but my mind is turning to what colours to paint the cockpit. With the actual aircraft still in existence (I'm still pinching myself) I'm blessed with a primary source. Apart from the video walkaround mentioned above (which doesn't get over the barrier rope I think) there is this splendid walkaround on these very pages, including some fantastic photos of the office, e.g.: and Of immediate interest is the pilot's seat, which doesn't look much like any other Hurricane pilot's seat I've seen, or anything like the one in the kit for that matter. Here's a pic of a seat I presume from another Finnish Hurricane, next to a standard Hurricane seat (? - I wonder where that one came from?) The whole extended back appears to be armour plating. I think in the photos above there is also additional armour plating behind the pilot's head in HC-452? Being painted in standard interior green this was surely factory fitted, I wonder if all this was specified by the Finns, or by the Poles - this airframe was originally intended to be shipped to Poland in September 1939, but the German invasion put paid to that so off she went to Finland instead. Anyway, little bit of scratch building to keep me entertained. There's also a great pic of the emergency hatch on the starboard side of the fuselage, clearly showing HC-452's original serial number, N2394: Got a pretty busy weekend coming up but I feel I have the bit between my teeth now so will try to make a start on some painting. Meanwhile... Cheers Nick Edited September 26 by Nick McV 3 1
Nick McV Posted September 26 Author Posted September 26 (edited) On 9/25/2025 at 8:41 AM, Nick McV said: My remaining question mark is whether to include the white kill markings on the tailfin... clearly visible on HC-452 now and also in the period photograph below. The question is: were they already there before the "number 5" rudder was fitted? Answers on a postcard... PS... I've done some more sleuthing on this. HC-455 was destroyed in an accident that killed the pilot on 30th July 1942. HC-452's last flight was almost exactly a year later, 26th July 1943, though it's impossible to say when exactly she got HC-455's rudder. The Continuation War ran from 25th June 1941 to 19th September 1944. This means that if HC-452 claimed her 2½ kills between 25th June 1941 and 30th July 1942 (the demise of HC-455), the kill markings alongside the original "number 2" rudder are pretty much a cert. All of HC-452's kills are known to be Polikarpov I-153s. The I-153 only saw action in the early part of the Continuation War, remaining in frontline service only until early 1942, still within the above timeframe. After this only very few of these aircraft were still flying, and they were relegated by the Soviets to secondary roles and occasional ground attack until early 1943, and in any case by then Finland's Hurricanes were grounded for a lot of the time due to lack of spares. While it's possible that one or more of HC-452's I-153 kills came after 30th July 1942, it's much less likely. So I feel it's safe to apply the kill markings. Quod erat demonstrandum. 🕵️♂️ Edit: "On 3 July, 1941, 1st Lt V.Evinen flying HC-452 and 2nd Lt E.Ruotsila flying HC-454 from LeLv32 shot down 2 I-153s from 7th IAP over Enso. On 8 January 1942 1st Lt E.Ruotsila from LeLv32 flying HC-452 shared a victory of an I-152 over Lumisuo." Source: https://asisbiz.com/il2/Hurricane/FAF-LeLv32.html Cheers Nick Edited September 26 by Nick McV 1
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