Anyone up for a Tank, Cruiser Mk VI, Crusader STGB ? Bun fight bound but don't let that stop you from signing up.

ColonelKrypton · August 14

This proposed Group Build has been morphing in a good way and as such the following text has been tweaked from it's original post.

The day of the Bun Fight is drawing ever nearer and there is no lack of interesting group build proposals and those already promoted to the lofty heights of "in the Bun Fight" status.

Regardless, there is always room for another is there not?

The popularity of the ongoing Churchill STGB has me wondering if there might be enough interest in a Crusader Tank STGB

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusader_tank

Quote

snippet from Wikipedia:

Crusader, in full "Tank, Cruiser Mk VI, Crusader", also known by its General Staff number A.15, was one of the primary British cruiser tanks during the early part of the Second World War. Over 5,000 tanks were manufactured and they made important contributions to the British victories during the North African campaign. The Crusader only saw active service in Africa but the chassis of the tank was modified to create anti-aircraft, fire support, observation, communication, bulldozer and recovery vehicle variants.

This morphing came about from a gentle nudge by @Marklo and the wisdom of @Enzo the Magnificent . AFV group builds are a tough nut to crack to get into not only the Bun Fight but also past the Bun Fight into the schedule of Future Group Builds. A STGB stands a much better chance.

First step is to drum up enough interest to get into the Bun Fight.

So, who is in for this one? Anyone?

cheers, Graham

I have been distracted digging into the world of kits for the A15 Crusader tank. I was quite surprised at the number and variety that have been available. This is my NON exhaustive list as it currently stands. I will update from time to time as more are uncovered.

1/32
   - Airfix
       - No. A08360 ( 2015 most recent boxing Crusader Mk.III
       - https://www.scalemates.com/kits/airfix-a08360-crusader-mkiii--963264
       - several boxings over the years

1/35
   - Border Models
       - Border models Crusader Mk.II BT-015 - reported as being discontinued
       - https://www.scalemates.com/kits/border-model-bt-015-crusader-mkii--1359356
       - https://www.bordermodel.com/en/ProductsCenter/337.html

       - Border models Crusader Mk.III BT-012
       - https://www.scalemates.com/kits/border-model-bt-012-crusader-mkiii--1302920
       - https://www.bordermodel.com/en/ProductsCenter/308.html

   - Platz
       - Platz GP-75 Girls und Panzer das Finale Crusader Mk.III St. Gloriana Girls Academy Cruiser Tank Mk.VI
       - https://www.scalemates.com/kits/platz-gp-75-crusader-mkiii-st-gloriana-girls-academy--1432333
       - appears to be a rebox of the Border Models Mk.III Crusader with new parts

       - Platz GP-81 Girls und Panzer das Finale Crusader Mk.III St. Gloriana Girls Academy
       - https://www.scalemates.com/kits/platz-gp-81-crusader-mkiii-st-gloriana-girls-academy--1470513
       - 10th anniversary special version
       - appears to be a rebox of the Border Models Mk.III Crusader with new parts

       - Platz GPS-85 Girls und Panzer das Finale Crusader Mk.III St. Gloriana Girls Academy
       - https://www.scalemates.com/kits/platz-gp-85-crusader-mkiii-st-gloriana-girls-academy--1507153
       - w/Clear File
       - appears to be a rebox of the Border Models Mk.III Crusader with new parts

       - Platz GP-93 Girls und Panzer das Finale Crusader Mk.III St. Gloriana Girls Academy
       - https://www.scalemates.com/kits/platz-gp-93-crusader-mkiii-st-gloriana-girls-academy--1608877
       - w/Acrylic Stand
       - appears to be a rebox of the Border Models Mk.III Crusader with new parts

1/56
   - RUB-280025 Cruiser Tank Mk VI A15 Crusader

   - Bolt Action British Crusader Mk.I / Mk.II Tank WGB-BI-158

1/72

   - Hasegawa Crusader Mk.III Cruiser Tank

   - Revell – 03125 – Crusader Mk. III
   - rebox of Hasegawa kit

   - IBG 72065 Crusader Mk.I
       - https://www.scalemates.com/kits/ibg-models-72065-crusader-mki--1194225

   - IBG 72066 Crusader Mk.I Close Support British Cruiser Tank Mk. VI
       - https://www.scalemates.com/kits/ibg-models-72066-crusader-mki-close-support--1372221

   - IBG 72067 1/72 Crusader Mk. II – British Cruiser Tank Plastic Model Kit
       - https://www.scalemates.com/kits/ibg-models-72067-crusader-mkii--1276993

   - IBG 72068 1/72 Crusader Mk.III
       - https://www.scalemates.com/kits/ibg-models-72068-crusader-mkiii--1247386

   - IBG 72069 1/72 Crusader Mk. III Anti Aircraft Tank with 40mm Bofors Gun
       https://www.scalemates.com/kits/ibg-models-72069-crusader-mkiii--1311474

   - IBG 72070 – Crusader Mk.III Anti Aircraft Tank with 20mm Oerlikon guns
       - https://www.scalemates.com/kits/ibg-models-72070-crusader-mkiii--1194226

   - IBG 72106 Scammell Pioneer w/TRCU30 Tank Trailer and Crusader Mk.I/II scale 1/72
       - https://www.scalemates.com/kits/ibg-models-72106-scammell-pioneer-tank-transporter-w-trcu30-trailer-and-crusader-mki-ii--1577499

       - Airfix has a Scammel too A02301V Scammel Tank Transporter
       - https://uk.airfix.com/products/scammel-tank-transporter-a02301v
       - https://www.scalemates.com/kits/airfix-a02301v-scammell-tank-transporter--1189981

   - Platz GP72-22 Girls und Panzer der Film Crusader Mk. III St. Gloriana Girls Highschool
       - https://www.scalemates.com/kits/platz-gp72-22-crusader-mk-iii-st-gloriana-girls-highschool--1410938
       - rebox of IBG 72068 1/72 Crusader Mk.III

   - Platz GP72-41 Girls und Panzer der Film Crusader Mk. III St. Gloriana Girls Highschool
       - https://www.scalemates.com/kits/platz-gp72-41-crusader-mk-iii-st-gloriana-girls-highschool--1514920
       - with acrylic stand
       - rebox of IBG 72068 1/72 Crusader Mk.III

   - Platz GP72-48 Girls und Panzer der Film Crusader Mk. III St. Gloriana Girls Highschool
       - https://www.scalemates.com/kits/platz-gp72-48-crusader-mk-iii-st-gloriana-girls-highschool--1576115
       - with acrylic key chaing
       - rebox of IBG 72068 1/72 Crusader Mk.III

   - S-Model No.PS720003 A15 Cruiser Tank Mk.VI Crusader Mk.I/II 2 quickbuild kits per box
       - https://www.scalemates.com/kits/s-model-china-ps720003-a15-cruiser-tank-mkvi-crusader-mki-ii--225653

   - S-Model No. PS720012 A15 Crusader Mk. II Close Support 2 quickbuild kits per box
       - https://www.scalemates.com/kits/s-model-china-ps720012-a15-crusader-mk-ii-close-support--1196886

1/76

   - Airfix
       - Airfix No.02310-0 (1978 boxing) Crusader Tank MK.II or MK.III
       - https://www.scalemates.com/kits/airfix-02310-0-crusader-tank--181494
       - several boxings over the years

   - Tsukuda Hobby
       - Tsukuda Hobby No. 876W02 (1988 boxing) Crusader Tank Mk II or Mk III
       - https://www.scalemates.com/kits/tsukuda-hobby-876w02-crusader-tank-mk-ii-or-mk-iii--181607
       - rebox of Airfix 1/76 Crusader

Edited September 27 by ColonelKrypton
morphing targets and a clearer vision

Bullbasket · August 14

Definitely put my name down. It may be a bit late, but worth giving it a go.

John.

ColonelKrypton · August 14

56 minutes ago, Bullbasket said:

It may be a bit late, but worth giving it a go.

Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

I think it was late last year that I proposed the Churchill STGB and it made it through.

Granted, a Cruiser Tank group build is not a STGB and in general AFV non STGB suffer greatly at the dominance of the Wingy type group builds.

There are already a couple of non Wingy group builds already in the Bun Fight, the Self Propelled being one that pops to mind.

Still, cast some seeds, fertilize and water and see what takes.

cheers, Graham

Marklo · August 14

Yes count me in, we need more AFV GB’s

I’d agree strongly with @ColonelKrypton as a GB this may get to the bunfight but probably won’t make the vote, better to pick one cruiser family like the Crusader or the Cromwell and reframe it as an STGB which could make it through the bunfight.

Knevi · August 14

I'll support this proposal and curious to see how the definition encompasses other countries' design philosophies

Armor Novice · August 14

I might as well give a go, I'm all for more armour GB anyway

ColonelKrypton · August 14

57 minutes ago, Knevi said:

I'll support this proposal and curious to see how the definition encompasses other countries' design philosophies

Me too. The more I read on the general subject the broader and more grey the subject becomes. For example, I have found where the Centurion is described as a "heavy cruiser".

Welcome aboard.

56 minutes ago, Armor Novice said:

I might as well give a go, I'm all for more armour GB anyway

Yes, we do. Welcome aboard.

1 hour ago, Marklo said:

better to pick one cruiser family like the Crusader or the Cromwell and reframe it as an STGB which could make it through the bunfight.

Excellent point and one I have been pondering.

The Crusader, Cromwell, and Centaur ( was it a cruiser tank of did it fall under some other definition ) would make a nice STGB but there were not very many variations of the basic vehicles so it would make for a fairly narrow STGB. However, I am no expert. One of those types may have many more variants than I am currently aware of. In fact, the Cromwell and Centaur were related where they not ( i.e. A27M and A27L ) ? but not the Comet.

I wonder if we could convince the great @Enzo the Magnificent that something like "British Cruiser Tanks" could be considered a single type ( of tank ) so as to qualify for a STGB. I seem to recall that there was a similar discussion with the Patton proposal if I am not mistaken.

Anything to get some more AFV type group builds. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Any other ideas?

cheers, Graham

Enzo the Magnificent · August 14

1 hour ago, ColonelKrypton said:

I wonder if we could convince the great @Enzo the Magnificent that something like "British Cruiser Tanks" could be considered a single type ( of tank ) so as to qualify for a STGB. I seem to recall that there was a similar discussion with the Patton proposal if I am not mistaken.

I don't think that Cruisers could be considered for an STGB. The Patton proposal was suitable as there was a definate development line that can be traced through all the different models. Cruiser tanks are a different matter as there were two distinct styles of design, with the Valentine-type and Christie-type suspensions. There were at least six different design bureaus involved: Vickers-Armstrong, Morris, Nuffield, Leyland, LMSR and DTD. And that's only for the British cruisers. There was the Kangaroo and Ram as well.

We had a similar situation a couple of years ago with the Czechmates GB. The original concept was an STGB for the Czech 35(t) and 38(t) tanks. However, they were two totally different designs to it eventually settles on the 38(t) and derivatives.

Morantbay · August 14

I'm in. Whatever form it eventually takes along these lines, it is virtually certain something in my stash will fit. I do need help, I know.

Enzo the Magnificent · August 14

5 minutes ago, Morantbay said:

I do need help, I know.

You're among friends here. This is a safe space.

Marklo · August 14

Looking at the Wikipedia entry for the crusader there were 5000 built with five main variants and quite a few derivatives including recovery vehicles, self propelled guns and anti aircraft versions. As well as being operated by 11 different nations. And more importantly a good range of kits available including Airfix, Tamiya and Italeiri.

So that looks like a pretty good candidate for an STGB to me.

ColonelKrypton · August 14

2 hours ago, Enzo the Magnificent said:

don't think that Cruisers could be considered for an STGB.

I didn't think so but I pays to till the soil and see what wiggle room might be found.

Enzo the Magnificent · August 14

Just now, ColonelKrypton said:

I didn't think so but I pays to till the soil and see what wiggle room might be found.

nodnodnod. It was worth asking the question, if only to generate a discussion.

StuartH · August 14

I'd like to sign up for this 👍

ColonelKrypton · August 14

19 minutes ago, Marklo said:

So that looks like a pretty good candidate for an STGB to me.

I think so too.

I did a quick search ( using Google ) for evidence of any previous Crusader (tank) STGB. The only group builds found where for F8 type wingy Crusaders. If we managed to get a
"Tank, Cruiser Mk VI, Crusader", also known by its General Staff number A.15 STGB on the books then that would be a first, unless someone knows better than I.

Me thinks my plan has morphed thanks to the gentle nudge from @Markloand @Enzo the Magnificent wisdom from a broad subject group to a more specific member of that group.

I am going to change the title to reflect that change. Anyone no longer interested please speak up and I will remove your name otherwise I will assume that those already on our short will still be interested.

cheers, Graham

ColonelKrypton · August 14

5 minutes ago, StuartH said:

I'd like to sign up for this 👍

Welcome aboard.

Are you still interested with the change from "Cruiser Tanks" to a Crusader STGB?

cheers, Graham

Knevi · August 14

B-b-but I only have one Crusader kit? How will I choose? I suppose I could start building up the inventory so count me in.

Enzo the Magnificent · August 14

1 minute ago, Knevi said:

B-b-but I only have one Crusader kit? How will I choose? I suppose I could start building up the inventory so count me in.

That's my boy!

ToE1984 · August 14

Great idea. Building the Churchill right now I found myself wondering what British tank to do next. For 1/72 scale, I already got myself an IBG kit or two which looks great.

STGB rather than Cruiser tank GB also sounds like the sensible thing to do. We could propose Cromwell and derivatives for 27.

Count me in, please!

Cheers

Thomas

ColonelKrypton · August 14

8 minutes ago, ToE1984 said:

Count me in, please!

Welcome aboard.

cheers, Graham

Jb65rams · August 14

Count me in. Just picked up a couple the Italeri Crusaders, the AA versions.

Enzo the Magnificent · August 14

22 minutes ago, ToE1984 said:

We could propose Cromwell and derivatives for 27.

So, it begins...

ColonelKrypton · August 14

50 minutes ago, Jb65rams said:

Count me in

Welcome aboard.

cheers, Graham

bianfuxia · August 14

You're all very welcome in "Call up the Armour" which is already in the Bunfight for next year. Cruisers, Crusaders, crusading cruisers, cruising crusaders, all welcome.

Just a backup plan if you don't get this across the line.

SimonL · August 15

I’d like to sign up. Have a Border Models Mk III in the stash.

Sign In

Anyone up for a Tank, Cruiser Mk VI, Crusader STGB ? Bun fight bound but don't let that stop you from signing up.

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