A Flower by any other name.

[Faraway]

This has been lurking on my shelf of 'to do' for a while. I don't want to make another Snowberry but will make some changes and produce this one, hopefully, as HMS Burdock which as far as I can determine is the same layout.

BUT if any of you out there know different, please, please let me know.

Building is not imminent, as I'm soon to venture to foreign shores for a few days.

Here are the bits.

 

 

And here is what I'm aiming for.

The colours given above, are Yellow and Blue, not particularly helpful so my merry shipmates, any ideas ?

Resolution @beefy66 does a yellow, NARN10 RN Interwar Primrose Yellow but as for the blue, I've no idea, something very dark I assume ?

Anyway, as I say not much will happen for a while, I'll probably make a wooden base and prepare the hull.

Jon

 

 

[dnl42]

That will be a different color. IIRC, you have a couple of color outliers in your display cabinet. 

[robgizlu]

Good choice Jon - crying out to be done.

Tempting to think that the "Blue" is MS1 without any evidence whatsover.

At least yellow paint was available and used for overseas stations.

The RN was so regulation bound - it seems hard to believe that someone would have come up with Royal Blue  without official sanction.

Enjoy the trip

Rob

[robgizlu]

Jamie had this to say a few years back:

 

Rob

[Faraway]

5 minutes ago, robgizlu said:

Tempting to think that the "Blue" is MS1 without any evidence whatsover

I'm inclined to agree, the picture I have is not very 'blue' and that fits with MS1, but the yellow is fun and makes a change from grey, grey and more grey.

I also need to make sure of what Burdock carried, Guns, DC's etc, but that is proving a tad more difficult, there were so many of these 'little ships' that for some all we know is pennant number, D.O.B. and D.O.D. so to speak. And they didn't always conform to Admiralty rules, seems some of the Flower commanders were a bit 'individual'.

Jon

[Faraway]

11 minutes ago, robgizlu said:

Jamie had this to say a few years back:

 

Rob

As always, as soon as colour of WW2 warships is mentioned the  is opened. If only there were more colour photos of the time.

One thing I did glean from that post, Burdock has a round radar lantern, NOT an hexagonal one. And the Great God Sod has actually smiled on me I have a MicroMaster one. 

Research continues, but I do like the idea of a yellow ship. 

Jon

[terryn]

Jon

 

There has been a short discussion recently about the Burdock in the FB Flower Class Group.  Having a second look you may be the person who started it 🫡

 

It includes the link below to the Snyder and Short "RN Colour Chart No. 3" which includes "Burdock Yellow and Burdock Blue". which may help or at the very least prompt some discussion 🙃

 

https://www.shipcamouflage.com/royal_navy3.htm?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR5xahIInptWPocbl2yoR12wellgPwuA6X3EpHMg-HN8Sv2y9xdtJSFLiECeoQ_aem_BaUhk0sms--ENljgdYf61w

 

Terry

[beefy66]

17 hours ago, Faraway said:

Resolution @beefy66 does a yellow, NARN10 RN Interwar Primrose Yellow but as for the blue, I've no idea, something very dark I assume ?

 

Hi Jon you do like the unusual subjects that open the  don't you, it just so happens the NARN 10 was mixed and tinned last week.

Very difficult to say this would have been the same yellow used on HMS Burdock I had to wear my sunglasses while tinning up.  

I have seen a couple done for RC 1/72 builds in this scheme, if it was me building this version I would go overall M.S.1 and the a very thinned yellow over that. going from the camouflage site info stating this colour faded rather quickly to a off white look.

Not sure what the reasoning would have been for this scheme unless an experiment for the area the ship would have been working in thought it would make it stand out more if anything.  

Looking forward to seeing it progress and enjoy your break.

 

Stay Safe

Keith

[Faraway]

57 minutes ago, beefy66 said:

I would go overall M.S.1 and the a very thinned yellow over that.

This  is a fairly regular occurrence when it comes to painting ships.

If I go overall MS1 and then thinned yellow, wouldn’t the yellow not show at all ?

My idea is to paint all over in thinned yellow onto the unprimed creamy white of the resin, by applying very thin coats the resin colour might show through the yellow, giving the impression that the yellow has almost faded away, leaving the aforementioned faded white.

The other question is this mention of Burdock Yellow and Blue, which to me confirms that the Burdock was indeed this colour, but what shade ?

 

[beefy66]

7 minutes ago, Faraway said:

This  is a fairly regular occurrence when it comes to painting ships.

If I go overall MS1 and then thinned yellow, wouldn’t the yellow not show at all ?

My idea is to paint all over in thinned yellow onto the unprimed creamy white of the resin, by applying very thin coats the resin colour might show through the yellow, giving the impression that the yellow has almost faded away, leaving the aforementioned faded white.

The other question is this mention of Burdock Yellow and Blue, which to me confirms that the Burdock was indeed this colour, but what shade ?

 

 

Jon think of the MS1 as a pre-shade to the yellow but your model your way have a practice of each method first before committing to actual model. 🤔

As for Burdock Yellow and Blue not a clue would have to check in my gardening books not the RN INFO I have.  

It would depend on where and when camo was applied don't think this would have been applied at the Sunderland yard.

Could have been stuff left over from East Indies station paints and the ship operating in the South Atlantic will have to check some other material. 

 

Keith

[Faraway]

2 hours ago, beefy66 said:

practice of each method first before committing to actual model.

This one will have a few practice paints, me thinks.

I’ll pop an order to you for NARN28 & NARN10 when I return in a couple of weeks time.

Although the MS1 might be wrong, still searching for Burdock Yellow & Blue.

Can I call on the expertise of @dickrd you’ve solved many a warship colour conundrum ?

Jon

[Faraway]

First small steps.

I've removed the moulded eyebrows from the scuttles and as per @robgizlu I've blackened the holes. All in preparation for the fixing of brass scuttles and eyebrows.

When I fixed these PE parts to Exeter, I used Gator Grip PVA glue, but wasn't sure it would hold when I stuck masking tape over them so, again as per Rob I've used thin CA.

I've tested those in place, and 🤞they've held.

[JohnWS]

Interesting choice in camo colour, Jon.  I thought Mountbatten pink was a strange colour, but yellow ...?

 

Looking forward to following along.

 

John

[Faraway]

Scuttled done.

A worthwhile task, but tedious.

[Faraway]

A question to you all.

I was looking at the instructions, WHAT ? I hear you cry, he reads the instructions , but yes I do (sometimes)

Anyhoo I was looking at the location of the pigeon holed flag lockers...

Number 19 above.

 

Red arrow below

                                               And I realised, I have no idea where the signal halyards are attached, if indeed they are attached here at all as there doesn't seem to be anywhere, which makes sense as all the pictures all seem to show the halyards are attached to the rear of the bridge, blue arrow above, but that seems a long way to have to pass flags in time of need.

Anyone know the answer to this ?????

 

Also, I'm really struggling to find any information about Burdocks armament, DC's in the usual places and there is gun towards the stern, but no Lewis guns, the bow gun and a single Oerlikon either side of the bridge, but did she carry a Hedgehog ?

Jon

[Faraway]

Latest stage, and probably the last for now.

At least the sculpts didn't come off with the masking tape.

On my return, I'll be figuring out the colour scheme, what colours to use to get this yellow and blue camouflage.

Jon

[Dave Swindell]

1 hour ago, Faraway said:

I have no idea where the signal halyards are attached, if indeed they are attached here at all as there doesn't seem to be anywhere, which makes sense as all the pictures all seem to show the halyards are attached to the rear of the bridge, blue arrow above, but that seems a long way to have to pass flags in time of need.

Anyone know the answer to this ?????

Back of the bridge would make most sense, as the bunting tossers would also operate the signalling lamps positioned there (blue arrow). Lambert drawings show vegetable lockers on top of the galley, not flag lockers (red arrow)

[Faraway]

19 minutes ago, Dave Swindell said:

Back of the bridge would make most sense, as the bunting tossers would also operate the signalling lamps positioned there (blue arrow). Lambert drawings show vegetable lockers on top of the galley, not flag lockers (red arrow)

I just assumed they were pigeon holes, perhaps they are vegetable lockers, I will investigate further.

Jon

[Faraway]

On closer examination, they are pigeon holes, they might be in the right place for this kit, Snowberry, but I don’t think they are right for Burdock.
The problem I have is there are, or at least none that I can find, no close ups of Burdock. 
I’m going to have to use a bit of poetic license here, perhaps move them off the galley roof, and put one on the bridge.

Jon

[mick b]

Hi Jon, are you going to scratch build the earlier bridge as seen in the profile?

 

Mike

[ArnoldAmbrose]

G'day, does this help?

 

https://www.shipsnostalgia.com/media/getting-the-rum-aboard.320647/

 

or this?

http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery/misc/hms/burdock-700-ak/ak-index.html

 

I know that other models aren't definitive proof.

 

Regards, Jeff

[Faraway]

13 hours ago, mick b said:

Hi Jon, are you going to scratch build the earlier bridge as seen in the profile?

 

Mike

Under investigation 

[Faraway]

@mick b @ArnoldAmbrose this is the picture in Ship Craft Special : Flower Class Corvettes.....

which shows a windowed cabin on the bridge. Also no Hedgehog or Lewis Guns.

But here is the real thing, no cabin. Wrong side for Hedgehog.

 

I've also found these pictures,

Which again has no cabin, but does have Lewis Guns and Hedgehog.

 

Another, from Jeff, no cabin.

 

 I can safely ignore the cabin on the bridge.

The galley roof doesn't appear to have much on it, certainly not as much as the Snowberry kit does, so I shall probably move one or both the flag pigeon holes onto the bridge.

The Lewis Guns and Hedgehog are still open to debate, but I will probably include them, unless more information comes to light.

Interesting that the style of Funnel band is different in these pictures, but I will add the one as in the photo above, I have a decal with red squares with white borders.

 

So, apart from the shades of Yellow and Blue, which are yet to be confirmed, things are progressing.

With regards the yellow, there is some thought that this colour faded very quickly and became white with a tint of yellow, so I've been playing with Vallejo Aged White,  which is already a bit yellowish, sort of clotted cream shade, to this I've added tiny amounts of yellow, and so far the result is promising.

The colour pictures above, show the camo pattern having a blue/slate/grey pattern which I think is lighter than MS1, and there is reference to her being BLUE and yellow, I think if she was in MS1, this might have been mentioned.

With these colours, I am very much open to suggestions.

Jon

[Faraway]

I forgot to mention, the Oerlikons on the bridge appear have a frame behind them, it would be nice to have a closer and clearer picture, but for this I have a cunning plan.

 

Jon

[dickrd]

On 6/6/2025 at 12:52 PM, Faraway said:

 

Can I call on the expertise of @dickrd you’ve solved many a warship colour conundrum ?

Jon

 

Jon,

 

You move very fast when building whereas research takes time! This is where I have got to so far:

 

Paints:  yellow and blue on her in 1941 is credible. MS1 is not.

 

Design of camouflage scheme not credible to me for her in 1941. I would want to see a photo before I believed it. It is it essentially a pattern out of the 1943 edition of CB3098R. 

 

Structure:

 

You need to distinguish her appearance in 1941 from 1942 plus. Her twin sister Campion completed a four months after her at the same shipyard and had that little windowed bridge cabin originally.

 

RN records show she had no radar throughout 1941.

 

RN records show her armament throughout 1941 was 1 x 4", I x 2pdr and 2 x Hotchkiss MGs  - nothing else.   (She would have been near bottom of the priority list for scarce Oerlikons in 1941 in any case.)

 

I will let you know my full thought process in relation to the colours and pattern of the camouflage scheme when I have completed my digging.

 

Best wishes. 

 

 

Edited June 8 by dickrd